Revising Marvel's Abstracts (Part 1 of ???) (STAFF ONLY)

[Ultima_Reality]

I don't see how that's much of an issue? IIRC, the Cosmic Egg is specifically far more than the sum of its parts, and Cosmic Cubes themselves vary, anyway. Remember that the endpoint of their evolution is to mature into a Beyonder, so there being large disparities between them isn't anything strange.

 

[ByAsura]

I'm not saying it's an issue, I'm saying we've already ****** with this enough that cosmic cube scaling shouldn't be a problem in general.

Plus, that's not how we treat it on the profile.

 

[Ultima_Reality]

Fair, yeah.

 

[Alonik]

Isn't a single Marvel universe actually 2-C with all the realms, dimensions and other stuff?

Read the Op, and all the comments.

 

[Excellence616]

Bump

 

[Ultima_Reality]

Will (probably) be gone for a bit, and since the thread seems to have settled down a little I'll take the opportunity to post more relevant stuff I found earlier.

So, in Legion of X (2023), we get a pretty detailed explanation of the Astral Realm. In Issue #3 we get told it's an infinite psychic space and also a substrate of Earth-616, the latter bit of information being obviously what's most relevant to us here. The story doesn't tell us just that, though. In Issue #6 we also see a fight scene (For lack of a better term) set in there, and it's... interesting, to say the least.

"We smashed futures against abstractions. We bludgeoned timelines against ripostes and retaliations that exist only in hypothesis. We crushed multiverses in potentia. We traded bullets. We had pun-offs. We danced. We played. We clawed and bit and tore. We competed in infinite ways. Here was cosmic heat death in make-believe."

All of this is encompassed by Earth-616, and as such by the Abstracts. A valid question would be how quantifiable this is, seeing as the Astral Realm is mental and not physical, and therefore not necessarily "real." Well for that I direct you to the first scan I posted, which says "It is a point of scholarly contention whether the Astral Realm is a reflection of the Physical Universe or vice-versa." So it is entertaining the possibility that the Astral isn't only just as real as the physical, but that it's more real than it.

To find out which is the more correct option, let's go find stuff elsewhere: In Astonishing X-Men Vol. 4 (Issue #8, from 2018), we're also told that the distinction between real and not-real is a little different from the perspective of the Astral Realm. In summary, it's like a storehouse, with everything that is, was and could be contained in there like "toys" that you can pick up and use. Something being "real" is just when you're actually playing with it, and "not-real" is just when you have it stored away.

So, yeah, that's one more addition to the "Marvel Earths are ******* huge" evidence pile.

 

[Murayefeskamus]

Will Celestial-tiers such as well-fed Galactus and Uatu get upgraded?

most probably

 

[ByAsura]

Potentially important question.

Is the Infinity Gauntlet's operative range (as in, where it's capable of working, rather than what it's capable of affecting) limited to universal Eternity?

 

[Antvasima]

Well, my concern here remains that we will apply ridiculously higher tiers than what any current writers and editors actually intend to these characters.

For example, Odinforce Thor explicitly defeated the Black Winter, a multiverse-consuming entity, recently, and he and three avatars of the Phoenix Force together prevented the corpse of the First Firmament from destroying the entire current Marvel multiverse through an act of raw power a few weeks ago (Avengers Assemble: Omega), and plenty of other characters consistently scale to them, and even more to them.

Jonathan Hickman portrayed the Marvel multiverse as strictly being a collection of universes that were colliding into and destroying each other, and I do not think that Al Ewing ever remotely mentioned infinite degrees of infinity or enormously higher in his cosmology.

So if we revise the Marvel multiverse as a whole to tier 0, as Ultima likely intends, as it is the standard pattern I have noticed from him in these types of situations, we will also end up with tier 0 regular powerful superheroes, which I think even most of the more extremely dedicated and upgrade-hungry at any cost fans of this franchise will consider absolutely ridiculously unreliable.

As such, I still think that it seems much more reliable to at least split the scale of the cosmology into the classic era that Mark Gruenwald, Tom DeFalco, Roger Stern, and other writers defined, and the modern era mainly defined by Al Ewing and Jonathan Hickman, and possibly another split for J.M. DeMatteis as well, and to only use explicit and consistent statements regarding the intended scale of the franchise.

 

[Antvasima]

Potentially important question.

Is the Infinity Gauntlet's operative range (as in, where it's capable of working, rather than what it's capable of affecting) limited to universal Eternity?

Yes, explicitly so according to stories by Jonathan Hickman.

 

[Excellence616]

So if we revise the Marvel multiverse as a whole to tier 0, as Ultima likely intends, as it is the standard pattern I have noticed from him in these types of situations, we will also end up with tier 0 regular powerful superheroes, which I think even most of the more extremely dedicated and upgrade-hungry at any cost fans of this franchise will consider absolutely ridiculously unreliable.

Tier 0 Regular powerful heroes. It won't come to that. @Ultima_Reality won't make it happen. That will be heavy outlier.

As such, I still think that it seems much more reliable to at least split the scale of the cosmology into the classic era that Mark Gruenwald, Tom DeFalco, Roger Stern, and other writers defined, and the modern era mainly defined by Al Ewing and Jonathan Hickman, and possibly another split for J.M. DeMatteis as well, and to only use explicit and consistent statements regarding the intended scale of the franchise.

That's what we planned in @The_2nd_Existential_Seed thread.

 

[Antvasima]

Following his likely logic of interpreting the entire multiversal cosmology as tier 0 (or maybe High 1-A, which isn't really much better), and several powerful superheroes explicitly scaling to it, and many more characters scaling to them, and so onwards, we would end up with tier 0 (or High 1-A) superheroes, yes.

There is no avoiding it, and all of this obsession with as high tiers as can possibly be squeezed out of all of Marvel 84+ years of history, and all of its many hundreds of writers and editors, combined, rather than trying to investigate the most consistent and reliable feat levels, is not exactly going to do anything good for the reliability of our wiki as a whole either. In fact, it is causing massive direct harm.

 

[Ultima_Reality]

So if we revise the Marvel multiverse as a whole to tier 0, as Ultima likely intends, as it is the standard pattern I have noticed from him in these types of situations, we will also end up with tier 0 regular powerful superheroes, which I think even most of the more extremely dedicated and upgrade-hungry at any cost fans of this franchise will consider absolutely ridiculously unreliable.

I don't intend to upgrade the omniverse to Tier 0, no.

Overall none of what you're saying... Matters, really. The feats you keep bringing you as inconsistent always either:

1) Are inconsistent regardless of what tier we rate the Abstracts at. Whether we put Eternity at Low 2-C or Tier 0 won't fix the purported problem because the cosmics are nevertheless still meant to be above regular heroes even if we disregard our made up Tiering System and go entirely by the verse's own internal logic.

2) Come about as a product of amps or situational scaling

3) Are simple outliers.

4) Are not actually as nonsensical as you claim they are.

 

[Antvasima]

I don't intend to upgrade the omniverse to Tier 0, no.

So what is your end goal here exactly?

Overall none of what you're saying... Matters, really. The feats you keep bringing you as inconsistent always either:

1) Are inconsistent regardless of what tier we rate the Abstracts at. Whether we put Eternity at Low 2-C or Tier 0 won't fix the purported problem because the cosmics are nevertheless still meant to be above regular heroes even if we disregard our made up Tiering System and go entirely by the verse's own internal logic.

The inconsistency would be far more than infinitely lesser. Also, I can buy the most powerful skyfathers reaching tier 2-B or 2-A, but not tier 1-A.

2) Come about as a product of amps or situational scaling

That is not the case to any significant degree in the examples that I used.

3) Are simple outliers.

They were very explicit feats that we currently do not consider as outliers.

4) Are not actually as nonsensical as you claim they are.

If they are not nonsensical, we have to take them seriously, and that means that regular powerful superheroes end up partially scaling to Multi-Eternity and the First Firmament, for example, so I would still greatly prefer if you reconsider and at least try to use very explicit statements of the intended scale combined with consistency instead. I would obviously also much prefer to separate the cosmologies of the classic and modern eras, as I do not think that the modern era has any comparative reliable statements of alephs or a similar scale of the setting.

 

[ByAsura]

Yes, explicitly so according to stories by Jonathan Hickman.

Then there's a lot of avenues we can explore here.

For example, in Thanos Annual 1, avatars (which are physical, but act more like conduits created by the Infinity Gauntlet) describe Hell as part of the universe, and are capable of operating the Infinity Gauntlet within its confines when that wouldn't be possible even via conduits.

With the exception of stuff like that 16th dimensional superspace, since it was a multiversal juncture, any realm a particular gauntlet can operate in should scale to that universe's Eternity.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Well, my concern here remains that we will apply ridiculously higher tiers than what any current writers and editors actually intend to these characters.

This is an odd statement. How exactly do you know what the writers and authors intend for these characters? This isn’t something that’s easily proven at a glance, either.

 

[Ultima_Reality]

The inconsistency would be far more than infinitely lesser. Also, I can buy the most powerful skyfathers reaching tier 2-B or 2-A, but not tier 1-A.

No, it wouldn't, for the reasons I already explained. Whether you can personally buy something or not is also completely irrelevant to this conversation. Your incredulity is not an argument without something to substantiate it.

That is not the case to any significant degree in the examples that I used.

Seems it is. For example, with Thor defeating the Black Winter, we currently rate it as situational scaling (It was after he absorbed Galactus' power and liberated it all at once), and with the omniversal wave, it was something depicted as above what any other hero was capable of (And it was also the product of Thor bringing out the latent power of the Phoenix Force within him)

If they are not nonsensical, we have to take them seriously, and that means that regular powerful superheroes end up partially scaling to Multi-Eternity and the First Firmament, for example, so I would still greatly prefer if you reconsider and at least try to use very explicit statements of the intended scale combined with consistency instead. I would obviously also much prefer to separate the cosmologies of the classic and modern eras, as I do not think that the modern era has any comparative reliable statements of alephs or a similar scale of the setting.

Regular powerful superheroes scaling to the cosmics is always, I'd say, inherently nonsensical unless we have good reason to rate them as such. So, whatever feats of this nature you mention will always fall under either of the 4 cases above.

 

[Antvasima]

Then there's a lot of avenues we can explore here.

For example, in Thanos Annual 1, avatars (which are physical, but act more like conduits created by the Infinity Gauntlet) describe Hell as part of the universe, and are capable of operating the Infinity Gauntlet within its confines when that wouldn't be possible even via conduits.

With the exception of stuff like that 16th dimensional superspace, since it was a multiversal juncture, any realm a particular gauntlet can operate in should scale to that universe's Eternity.

Well, it was a limitation imposed during the 2010s era, not the 1990s, and Marvel writers still tend to not be consistent at all between them, or even be aware of or care what others have established.

 

[Antvasima]

This is an odd statement. How exactly do you know what the writers and authors intend for these characters? This isn’t something that’s easily proven at a glance, either.

The characters regularly have serious problems with far less than universal feats and characters, so I think that infinite degrees of infinity seems very unreliable, especially as no explicit statements about such a scale of power for them has ever been made. In fact, usually their planet-destroying feats when going all out are treated as very impressive.

Anyway, you are not allowed to respond to staff only threads.

 

[Alonik]

If they are not nonsensical, we have to take them seriously, and that means that regular powerful superheroes end up partially scaling to Multi-Eternity and the First Firmament, for example, so I would still greatly prefer if you reconsider and at least try to use very explicit statements of the intended scale combined with consistency instead. I would obviously also much prefer to separate the cosmologies of the classic and modern eras, as I do not think that the modern era has any comparative reliable statements of alephs or a similar scale of the setting.

I wonder how superheroes will scale to the first firmament because abstract beings have been upgraded but are still below the first firmament.

The truth is that regardless of whether this upgrade passes or not, no one you mention as a superhero is going to scale to the First Firmament or partially to Multi-Eternity, because if they were, they would already be scaled to that.

 

[ByAsura]

The Black Winter stuff isn't even that much of an outlier, regardless of whether you exclude the other power-ups Thor received or not.

We know the Sixth Cosmos has multitudes of realities, since multiple versions of Galen-spawned Galacti exist, but we have no idea if it's operationally the same as the Seventh or Eighth Cosmos because the previous versions of the cosmos were less complex (as we see with the Third Cosmos).

Also, we've seen with other Abstracts that you don't have to destroy everything on every level that they embody (like Korvac tidying up the universe causing Chaos to shrink to the point of near-non existence, and supplanting Eternity's role). So, all it'd really have to do is be Low 1-C to gradually get rid of the Sixth Cosmos' space-time continua, which is something that Black Winter is literally shown performing.

And even if you were correct and this does contradict some stuff, wouldn't that just mean that we can simply scale the Universal Abstracts above the Skyfathers to achieve the same result as Ultima's scaling?

Well, it was a limitation imposed during the 2010s era, not the 1990s, and Marvel writers still tend to not be consistent at all between them, or even be aware or or care what others have established.

This only matters if A) there's anything that contradicts it, or B) if we even use anything before the 2010s at all.

 

[Antvasima]

No, it wouldn't, for the reasons I already explained. Whether you can personally buy something or not is also completely irrelevant to this conversation. Your incredulity is not an argument without something to substantiate it.

Unless a scale of power has been explicitly established it seems unreliable to apply, especially as Odin has usually been treated as a galactic or universal threat at best with his feats, and had repeated serious problems with Thor-level characters. Should we really scale the Mangog and Jane Foster Thor to 1-A now, or give Odin a "Varies between 3-C and 1-A" tier?

Seems it is. For example, with Thor defeating the Black Winter, we currently rate it as situational scaling (It was after he absorbed Galactus' power and liberated it all at once), and with the omniversal wave, it was something depicted as above what any other hero was capable of (And it was also the product of Thor bringing out the latent power of the Phoenix Force within him)

Galactus was continuously beaten up by regular attacks from Thor during that storyline, so Thor could not logically have been powered up to an infinite degree of infinities...

It doesn't matter that Thor was more powerful than the other heroes. He still had serious problems with fighting the Hulk a few months earlier, and still regularly has problems with far less powerful regular characters than a scale of 1-A.

Don't you realise how unreasonable you are being here, and the sheer amount of damage that this will cause to the reliability of our wiki? I would very greatly appreciate if you take a few step back and reconsider.

Also, you still haven't concretely answered what you endgame is here regarding your intended statistics scaling.

Regular powerful superheroes scaling to the cosmics is always, I'd say, inherently nonsensical unless we have good reason to rate them as such. So, whatever feats of this nature you mention will always fall under either of the 4 cases above.

In that case we need to make explicit mentions of this in our rules, and extend the rule to skyfathers such as Hercules who have feats of that scale, and all other characters who have ever fought them without any mentions of m-bodies afterwards.

Also, I still much prefer to at least get explicit reliable mentions of the intended scale for this type of 84+ years old setting that has been shared by hundreds of different writers.

 

[Ultima_Reality]

Unless a scale of power has been explicitly established it seems unreliable to apply, especially as Odin has usually been treated as a galactic or universal threat at best with his feats, and had repeated serious problems with Thor-level characters

If that's the case, then even 2-A is an invalid rating by your lenses. If a character has 1-A and 2-A as two possible ends, and then is depicted in a storyline as struggling to perform, say, 3-C feats, we don't treat 2-A as the end that's "less contradicted" and thus the one we should go with. They're both equally contradicted.

 

[Antvasima]

I wonder how superheroes will scale to the first firmament because abstract beings have been upgraded but are still below the first firmament.

The truth is that regardless of whether this upgrade passes or not, no one you mention as a superhero is going to scale to the First Firmament or partially to Multi-Eternity, because if they were, they would already be scaled to that.

I extremely strongly doubt that Skyfather Hercules was intended to be infinite degrees of infinity stronger than a regular skyfather when he restored the Marvel multiverse and fought Mikaboshi, and it is extremely hard to argue that the feats of skyfather Thor and the Phoenix Force avatars (one of which a future skyfather Thor held his own against in another story by the same writer) were not explicit.

Anyway, you are also interfering in a staff only thread, and I cannot argue with many people at the same time.

 

[Ultima_Reality]

It doesn't matter that Thor was more powerful than the other heroes. He still had serious problems with fighting the Hulk a few months earlier, and still regularly has problems with far less powerful regular characters than a scale of 1-A.

You also ignored the tidbit where I said it had to do with him bringing out power that he does not access as part of his normal powerset to accomplish the feat, by the way.

 

[ByAsura]

Galactus was continuously beaten up by regular attacks from Thor during that storyline, so Thor could not logically have been powered up to a degree of infinite infinities...

This sounds like a contradiction because you're (probably unintentionally, to be fair) stripping all the context away.

Galactus was near-death at the start of the storyline, heavily amped All-Father Thor (I can't recall if he has the Odin Force, or not) with his own power, and hadn't consumed any of the five special planets that'd amp him to try and fight Black Winter.

Thor then started taking more cosmic power from Galactus after he'd devoured the first planet.

 

[Ultima_Reality]

Also, you still haven't concretely answered what you endgame is here regarding your intended statistics scaling.

Overall, my endplan for the Omniversal Abstracts and up would be upgrading them to High 1-A, more or less. Technically the cosmology at large is being upgraded to infinite levels of High 1-A, due to the infinite realms above the omniverse that Defenders: Beyond commented on, but at present not even TOAA scales to that, really.

Anyway, you are also interfering in a staff only thread, and I cannot argue with many people at the same time.

Alonik has my permission to comment, since he's knowledgeable enough on Marvel Comics as is.

 

[Antvasima]

If that's the case, then even 2-A is an invalid rating by your lenses. If a character has 1-A and 2-A as two possible ends, and then is depicted in a storyline as struggling to perform, say, 3-C feats, we don't treat 2-A as the end that's "less contradicted" and thus the one we should go with. They're both equally contradicted.

And why should we not use the same reasoning to apply greater scrutiny for the cosmic entities in terms of requiring actual explicit modern mentions of their currently intended scales of influence/size/power levels, rather than mentions of infinite dimensions that may refer to parallell universes, and the like?

And why should we not simply perceive the regular superhero feats as counter-evidence for the intended scale of the cosmic entities in the first place?

You also ignored the tidbit where I said it had to do with him bringing out power that he does not access as part of his normal powerset to accomplish the feat, by the way.

Jason Aaron, who also wrote the story in question, has portrayed Odinforce Thor as roughly comparable to either All-Black the Necrosword (forged by Knull) or Phoenix Force avatars. Just because Thor awakened the power of telekinesis, this does not mean that he turned infinity raised to the power of infinity more powerful

 

[Antvasima]

This sounds like a contradiction because you're (probably unintentionally, to be fair) stripping all the context away.

Galactus was near-death at the start of the storyline, heavily amped Thor with his own power, and hadn't consumed any of the five special planets that'd amp him to try and fight Black Winter.

Thor then started taking more cosmic power from Galactus after he'd devoured the first planet.

I do not recall that Thor absorbed Galactus' power until the end, but stating that Galactus and the Black Winter were portrayed infinite degrees of infinity more powerful than him seems extremely unfeasible from what I remember of that storyline.

 

[Ultima_Reality]

And why should we not use the same reasoning to apply greater scrutiny for the cosmic entities in terms of requiring actual explicit modern mentions of their currently intended scales of influence/size/power levels, rather than mentions of infinite dimensions that may refer to parallell universes, and the like?

Because nothing really contradicts my proposals, as far as I can tell. The stuff relating to "Okay but what if those statements refer to universes and not spatial dimensions?" is not only unrelated to this point but also has to do with only one of the five points raised in the OP, so, not sure why you bring it up now.

 

[Ultima_Reality]

Jason Aaron, who also wrote the story in question, has portrayed Odinforce Thor as roughly comparable to either All-Black the Necrosword (forged by Knull) or Phoenix Force avatars. Just because Thor awakened the power of telekinesis, this does not mean that he turned infinity raised to the power of infinity more powerful

i'd need to read the relevant material first, also.

But, if I can successfully argue for it? Yeah, it would seem so.

 

[Antvasima]

Overall, my endplan for the Omniversal Abstracts and up would be upgrading them to High 1-A, more or less. Technically the cosmology at large is being upgraded to infinite levels of High 1-A, due to the infinite realms above the omniverse that Defenders: Beyond commented on, but at present not even TOAA scales to that, really.

Okay, thank you for the information, but that does not alleviate my serious concerns about that this is not at all a consistent portrayal of the scale of power for the verse, or about all of the insane scaling that it would result in for other characters, so other steps would at the very least be taken to help prevent other characters to scale to the cosmic entities. Meaning, Hercules, Dormammu, Thor, etc. would all have to automatically be considered to be outliers.

Alonik has my permission to comment, since he's knowledgeable enough on Marvel Comics as is.

I do not want to have to drown in a tsunami of posts from non-staff commenters who want upgrades at any costs, no matter the resulting damage. Things have to be kept somewhat balanced here, as my available time is very limited, so no, he does not have the right to post here. I am afraid that I am overruling you in that regard.

 

[Antvasima]

i'd need to read the relevant material first, also.

Jason Aaron's future version of Odinforce Thor held his own against Old Man Phoenix, one of the hosts that appeared in this storyline, and helped Thor hold back the body of the First Firmament.

But, if I can successfully argue for it? Yeah, it would seem so.

That makes absolutely no sense, given the above, and even if it made sense, why wouldn't Thor keep this power-up afterwards, given that he gained this power when he was born? Yet in his current comic book I think that he is currently having problems with fighting undead valkyries.

Also, I think that the "if I can successfully argue for it" sentiment is a very unwise attitude to have regarding these issues in general, as it doesn't care about resulting destructive consequences or common sense. Just because you can argue for something that serves a specific end goal doesn't mean that you should/that it is responsible to do so.

 

[Ultima_Reality]

Okay, thank you for the reply, but that does not alleviate my serious concerns about that this is not at all a consistent portrayal of the scale of power for the verse, or about all of the insane scaling that it would result in for other characters, so other steps would at the very least be taken to help prevent other characters to scale to the cosmic entities. Meaning, Hercules, Dormammu, Thor, etc. would all have to automatically be considered to be outliers.

It wouldn't result in any insane scaling, no, for reasons I already repeated quite a fair bit here. Overall:

1) If the character is amped during the scene where they beat up an Abstract, it's not an inconsistency.

2) If there is some situational context allowing them to beat up the Abstract, it's not an inconsistency.

3) If the feat just isn't what you are interpreting it as, it's not an inconsistency.

4) if it's an inconsistency, then... It is an inconsistency. And that's that.

i do not want to have to droen in a tsunami of posts from on-staff commenters who want upgrades at any costs, no matter the resulting damage. Things have to be kept somewhat balanced here, as my available time is very limited, so no, he does not have the right to post here. I am afraid that I am overruling you in that regard.

I don't really plan on allowing anyone else to comment, so, those concerns are null and void. Furthermore if your avaliable time is limited, you shouldn't be here to begin with. Preferably, come back when you have time to properly read through the whole OP.

 

[ByAsura]

I do not recall that Thor absorbed Galactus' power until the end

Thor dropped out of the form and took power cosmic later after Galactus devoured one planet.

We have no idea how much power he took from this Galactus.

but stating that Galactus and the Black Winter were portrayed infinite degrees of infinity more powerful than him seems extremely unfeasible from what I remember of that storyline.

I genuinely don't see why. You're talking about two utterly incomparable levels of power.

We never see how Herald Thor compares to anyone because he god stomped Beta Ray Bill without trying, and then went into his base form (not even All-Father form) to fight him. So, we don't know how powerful Herald Thor was to begin with.

Herald Thor harmed starving Galactus (who was, again, nearly killed by Black Winter before the story started), and then he consumed the five special planets to fight Black Winter. And even then, Galactus brought All-Father Thor to his knees and gave him a decent amp at the start of the story.

Edit: All-Father Thor does seem to be Odin-Force amped as well.

 

[Antvasima]

It wouldn't result in any insane scaling, no, for reasons I already repeated quite a fair bit here. Overall:

1) If the character is amped during the scene where they beat up an Abstract, it's not an inconsistency.

2) If there is some situational context allowing them to beat up the Abstract, it's not an inconsistency.

3) If the feat just isn't what you are interpreting it as, it's not an inconsistency.

4) if it's an inconsistency, then... It is an inconsistency. And that's that.

If no infinite degrees of infinity of greater power levels were explicitly mentioned anywhere, it seems extremely unreliable.

I don't really plan on allowing anyone else to comment, so, those concerns are null and void. Furthermore if your avaliable time is limited, you shouldn't be here to begin with. Preferably, come back when you have time to properly read through the whole OP.

I have to leave for important real life commitments now, but I do not at all like that you are apparently trying to irresponsibly upgrade an entire verse to extremely ridiculously inconsistent extremes, so I do not at all appreciate that you have forced me into excessively wasting time on this instead of reaching an agreement in private by continuing our previous discussion.

 

[Antvasima]

Thor dropped out of the form and took power cosmic later after Galactus devoured one planet.

We have no idea how much power he took from this Galactus.

I genuinely don't see why. You're talking about two utterly incomparable levels of power.

We never see how Herald Thor compares to anyone because he god stomped Beta Ray Bill without trying, and then went into his base form (not even All-Father form) to fight him. So, we don't know how powerful Herald Thor was to begin with.

Herald Thor harmed starving Galactus (who was, again, nearly killed by Black Winter before the story started), and then he consumed the five special planets to fight Black Winter. And even then, Galactus brought All-Father Thor to his knees and gave him a decent amp at the start of the story.

Edit: All-Father Thor does seem to be Odin-Force amped as well.

Okay. Thank you for the information. I still do not find it at all reasonable with power-ups of infinite degrees of infinity from absorbing Galactus' power gained from 5 planets though.

 

[ByAsura]

If no infinite degrees of infinity of greater power levels were explicitly mentioned anywhere, it seems extremely unreliable.

This seems like the worst possible take to me when it comes to Marvel, especially given how we treat Thor and Hercules at their peaks.

There's like 4 or 5 orders of infinity mentioned ever in Marvel (and two of them are quite shaky).

I still do not find it at all reasonable with power-ups of infinite degrees of infinity from absorbing Galactus' power gained from 5 planets though.

My guy, 4 normal planets allowed him to stomp 4 Celestials, and we consider that an amp by orders of infinity.

Just a single one of these planets was so special that it caused his armour and overall design to change drastically.

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

All-Father Thor does seem to be Odin-Force amped as well.

He was, but didn't have the full extent until Thor Vol 6 #22

 

[ByAsura]

That's fair, then.

But we can definitely conclude that he was nowhere near base levels of power here.