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Revising Dragon Ball Flight Speed (Dragon Ball + DBZ + DBS Manga)

That was only at the beginning, and after that he couldn't do it anymore and was forced to run along the way

Not on the way back though.

Recently people were arguing that Piccolo's SBC could be potentially slower than the moon-blast due to "inconsistency" regarding the feat.

Yeah, that will depend on how we end up treating flight speed and combat speed. We may circle back to that discussion point later on.
 
Btw, since I don't agree with many of the travel feats being anti-feats due to the context surrounding them and there is probably no way of finding a particular value, I can suggest to simply go with "X combat speed, lower when flying/traveling long distances" for characters whose combat speed has been calculated. For characters like Whis whose flight speed has been calculated can be rated as "Y travel speed, higher combat speed" or some such.

Or it could be mentioned in their weakness section that since these characters tend to expend more energy in short bursts, their travel speed over long distances is comparatively lower. Since it is a matter of expending energy over a long term as compared to short bursts, it really is very situational.

That's just my suggestion. I'd like

But the Goku crossing a certain distance on Namek one is not so impressive. Vegeta and the others weren't a far distance away.
According to the shonen jump volume that came with the manga, Goku was on the other side of the planet.
 
Let it be said that I obviously strongly disagree with Piccolo's SBC being an outlier in terms of speed. The thing has been discussed several times in the past even before I joined the wiki, and since this thread is not about that, I won't be saying more on this.

Having said that, is there a TLDR post that I need to see? Because it seems the discussion was going at a quick pace.

There is no TL;DR as such, but I put together a summary of the Saiyan Arc here and I'm working on a summary of the Namek Arc now. (Taking longer because it is a longer arc)

Also, may be absent for some of today from the thread because it's my birthday.

According to the shonen jump volume that came with the manga, Goku was on the other side of the planet.

Yeah... You shouldn't trust that at all. They literally were not on the other side of the planet. Vegeta can literally see the spot where the Dragon was summoned from the spaceship, and they fought in that general area until Goku woke up. I can grab the scans later on if you'd like.
 
Happy Birthday!

1) Raditz flying an unknown distance across the Earth to get to Goku on Roshi's island. It takes Raditz at least multiple minutes to get there. [Chapter 2]
  • Raditz regards Goku's velocity as "high" despite Goku riding on the Flying Nimbus which has a maximum speed of Mach 1.5 according to the Daizenshuu.
Raditz was casual af so there's nothing more to be said here. As for Nimbus, can I see the Daizenshuu source? Even if it were true, we can dismiss it as a mere inconsistency on Daizenshuu's part considering humans in the past like Tao Pai Pai have much better casual feats than Mach 1.5

2) Goku and Piccolo fly to where Raditz pod had landed from Roshi's island. [Chapter 3]
  • Goku has to check if Piccolo can keep up with his Flying Nimbus, which Piccolo does.
  • Raditz again regards them as approaching "quickly."
Goes to show more on how the Daizenshuu source is probably inaccurate.

3) Goku starts his journey on the 1 Million kilometer-long Snake Way by flying... and almost immediately he is out of power and has to start running. [Chapter 11]
  • What does this tell you? Well, even if we assume that Goku was capable of flying high speed there for a moment... he obviously cannot sustain it. He still has to complete the remainder of his journey over 6 months of travel.
That is a fair point, but it would be more of a stamina issue.

4) For his travel back along Snake Way, King Kai estimates that it would take Goku two days to travel 1 million kilometers. [Chapter 18]
He took more than a day. I can't say his speed here is not much lower than his combat speed at this point. It is. Could be because he was trying to conserve some energy to fight when he reaches there. But it still establishes that their speed in short bursts is more impressive than over long distances.

5) The Saiyans arrive at 11:43 AM, and the Z Fighters like Tien, Chaozu and Yamcha begin flying towards Piccolo and Gohan shortly afterwards. They don't arrive until after 12:20 PM. Same applies for Vegeta and Nappa who started flying towards Piccolo and Gohan shortly after they arrived. [Chapter 19]
They didn't look like they expended themselves more than they had to. Nobody looked tired and it makes sense for all of them to not expend unnecessary energy before the fighting actually begins.

8) After Goku returns to Earth, he gets on board the Flying Nimbus and flies straight towards his friends. After covering some distance while Nappa fights Krillin, Gohan and Piccolo, Goku is finally sensed by Piccolo and Vegeta who deduces that Goku will arrive in four minutes. [Chapter 26 - 28]
I always viewed his choice of taking the Nimbus instead of flying there as a means to conserve energy since going by King Kai's narration when he was crossing the Snake Way, Goku's "unbelievable speed" should easily be more impressive than Nimbus' at this point.

9) After Goku and Vegeta begin their battle, Gohan and Krillin start flying back towards Roshi's house. Despite travelling for some time while Goku and Vegeta have been fightng and it becoming sunset, the two of them still haven't made it to Roshi's house. [Chapter 33 - 39]
They weren't in a hurry and they were already reluctant of leaving Goku and flying back.

10) Gohan and Krillin then fly back towards where Goku and Vegeta have been battling, and again it takes them some time because the battle between Goku and Vegeta continued, with Goku even having enough time to form the Spirit Bomb and then lose it, before Gohan and Krillin get there. [Chapter 39 - 41]
Since these fights normally take place at super speed there is no way of telling the timeframe here. Goku and Jackie Chun had an entire fight before a normal human could even perceive their movements in early DB.

Once again, I disagree with a lot of these being anti-feats. The Snake Way instance at least suggests a disparity in their speed over long distances and short bursts and it makes sense considering they are martial artists, not marathon runners. But that's about it. (I am not feeling well so I might take time in between replies!)
 
Once again, I disagree with a lot of these being anti-feats. The Snake Way instance at least suggests a disparity in their speed over long distances and short bursts and it makes sense considering they are martial artists, not marathon runners. But that's about it.

Thanks for responding.

Can't respond to all of it at this moment, but regarding this bit:

Could be because he was trying to conserve some energy to fight when he reaches there.

I find that highly unlikely. Goku has to take a Senzu Bean as soon as he got back to Earth.

I'll try to continue on with this later today, but no promises.
 
I find that highly unlikely. Goku has to take a Senzu Bean as soon as he got back to Earth.
Of course he did to replenish all of his energy. But Goku probably didn't know in advance that there'd be a senzu bean waiting for him for sure, so he'd still like to keep some energy in reserve for the actual fighting.
 
Incredible that this is still going on.
What are the score currently?

Last time I checked most people were for.
 
Incredible that this is still going on.
What are the score currently?

Last time I checked most people were for.
In general the majority are in favor, but it's not a massive number and we haven't actually reached a conclusion and I don't expect us to soon. The discussion is still ongoing and probably will be for the rest of the week as there are more arcs to cover, and I've got a number of calcs to create and then get evaluated.
 
Happy Birthday, Damage!

I'm still fine with having flight speed be lower than combat speed. We generally see much, much higher feats from combat speed. plus, let's be real, this changes barely anything
 
Let it be said that I obviously strongly disagree with Piccolo's SBC being an outlier in terms of speed. The thing has been discussed several times in the past even before I joined the wiki, and since this thread is not about that, I won't be saying more on this (I largely agree with GodlyCharmander).
fully agree with AKM here. Not an outlier.
 
Happy birthday Damage!

Regarding this thread, I'm fine with separating long distance flight speed from combat and short burst speed, and I'm fine with it being a general rule that combat speed is generally above flight speed in Dragon Ball (which really helps come Dragon Ball Super, especially the manga).

However, I disagree with the Piccolo moon bust speed being above his Makankosappo speed, mainly for Charmander's reasons.
 
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If every feat is considered an outlier, then this defeats the purpose of having a feat in the first place

Also, there was nothing to explain why it can only be used for "short bursts", and not for longer given that:

1) They never shown to have their stamina drained when going this fast in every feat this happens, nor mention once that outspeeding the opponents blasts require a lot of stamina

2) They don't even need to show longer distances since their purpose is to fight the enemy, which mostly happens close to them, so they won't go too far (and even then, it happens time and time again such as with Frieza VS Vegeta, Goku VS Vegeta in Saiyan Saga and Goku VS Frieza)

3) The fact they can even begin to fly or run away and try to evade and outspeed the attack shows that the flight speed must be around the same level as the combat speed, otherwise the blasts would've caught to them instantly without giving them a chance to run away. Assuming their reactions scale to combat speed, they could see the blast coming at them, but with such a big gap when they try to move away it would appear as if they're going at a snail pace by comparison
 
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There are so many necro'd topics and some blatant false information. Piccolo's feat is far more consistent than Roshi's which is also blatantly a solid Relativistic+ attack speed feat that scales to everyone who can react to his Ki blasts. It's no outlier. As for Super's Massively FTL+ stuff, the scaling now comes from Goku and Beerus having the ability to react to their own attack speed; with it being very casual in Beerus' case and Goku growing much faster later on. We are not using the 6, 10, 15 statements that have more to do with attack power rather than flight speed anyway. The "Beerus flew in 3/4ths one of Whis' speed feats was apparently forgotten when we found new feats, which was also much less impressive than various other feats Whis has or Beerus' attack speed but it's still very much well into Massively FTL+.

As for everything else, I have still been reading the thread and still agree more with what GodlyCharmander is saying.
 
In general the majority are in favor, but it's not a massive number and we haven't actually reached a conclusion and I don't expect us to soon. The discussion is still ongoing and probably will be for the rest of the week as there are more arcs to cover, and I've got a number of calcs to create and then get evaluated.
Thanks for the infos and Happy Birthday !🎉

You should go rest/party instead getting tired arguing there tbh. It look complicated. 👀
 
Happy birthday, Damage3245.

So what are the conclusions here so far?
Thanks.

I said earlier up above that we're not near to a conclusion.

There's no rush for this though, once I've finished gathering more stuff I can ping relevant staff memebrs.
 
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Also Namek Saga SSJ Goku couldn't reach the ship before the planet's explosion.
He literally did though. He managed to escape and travel to Yardrat.

Besides, by the time he finally finished Frieza, he got only few seconds at most to not only reach the ship, but escape as well, and since Goku and Frieza traveled to the other side of the planet, that is a considerab;e distance he needed to cross over the course of few seconds at most
 
Also Namek Saga SSJ Goku couldn't reach the ship before the planet's explosion.
Yeah, Gilad is right that Goku did reach the ship.

He literally did though. He managed to escape and travel to Yardrat.

Besides, by the time he finally finished Frieza, he got only few seconds at most to not only reach the ship, but escape as well, and since Goku and Frieza traveled to the other side of the planet, that is a considerab;e distance he needed to cross over the course of few seconds at most
I already mentioned this up above, but Goku and Frieza weren't on the other side of the planet. That volume description is simply incorrect.
 
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