- 31,404
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- Thread starter
- #321
Not on the way back though.
Yeah, that will depend on how we end up treating flight speed and combat speed. We may circle back to that discussion point later on.
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Revising Dragon Ball Flight Speed (Dragon Ball + DBZ + DBS Manga)
- Thread starter Damage3245
- Start date
Not on the way back though.
Yeah, that will depend on how we end up treating flight speed and combat speed. We may circle back to that discussion point later on.
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Btw, since I don't agree with many of the travel feats being anti-feats due to the context surrounding them and there is probably no way of finding a particular value, I can suggest to simply go with "X combat speed, lower when flying/traveling long distances" for characters whose combat speed has been calculated. For characters like Whis whose flight speed has been calculated can be rated as "Y travel speed, higher combat speed" or some such.
Or it could be mentioned in their weakness section that since these characters tend to expend more energy in short bursts, their travel speed over long distances is comparatively lower. Since it is a matter of expending energy over a long term as compared to short bursts, it really is very situational.
That's just my suggestion. I'd like
Or it could be mentioned in their weakness section that since these characters tend to expend more energy in short bursts, their travel speed over long distances is comparatively lower. Since it is a matter of expending energy over a long term as compared to short bursts, it really is very situational.
That's just my suggestion. I'd like
According to the shonen jump volume that came with the manga, Goku was on the other side of the planet.
- 31,404
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- Thread starter
- #323
There is no TL;DR as such, but I put together a summary of the Saiyan Arc here and I'm working on a summary of the Namek Arc now. (Taking longer because it is a longer arc)
Also, may be absent for some of today from the thread because it's my birthday.
Yeah... You shouldn't trust that at all. They literally were not on the other side of the planet. Vegeta can literally see the spot where the Dragon was summoned from the spaceship, and they fought in that general area until Goku woke up. I can grab the scans later on if you'd like.
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Happy Birthday!
Once again, I disagree with a lot of these being anti-feats. The Snake Way instance at least suggests a disparity in their speed over long distances and short bursts and it makes sense considering they are martial artists, not marathon runners. But that's about it. (I am not feeling well so I might take time in between replies!)
Raditz was casual af so there's nothing more to be said here. As for Nimbus, can I see the Daizenshuu source? Even if it were true, we can dismiss it as a mere inconsistency on Daizenshuu's part considering humans in the past like Tao Pai Pai have much better casual feats than Mach 1.5
Goes to show more on how the Daizenshuu source is probably inaccurate.
That is a fair point, but it would be more of a stamina issue.
He took more than a day. I can't say his speed here is not much lower than his combat speed at this point. It is. Could be because he was trying to conserve some energy to fight when he reaches there. But it still establishes that their speed in short bursts is more impressive than over long distances.
They didn't look like they expended themselves more than they had to. Nobody looked tired and it makes sense for all of them to not expend unnecessary energy before the fighting actually begins.
I always viewed his choice of taking the Nimbus instead of flying there as a means to conserve energy since going by King Kai's narration when he was crossing the Snake Way, Goku's "unbelievable speed" should easily be more impressive than Nimbus' at this point.
They weren't in a hurry and they were already reluctant of leaving Goku and flying back.
Since these fights normally take place at super speed there is no way of telling the timeframe here. Goku and Jackie Chun had an entire fight before a normal human could even perceive their movements in early DB.
Once again, I disagree with a lot of these being anti-feats. The Snake Way instance at least suggests a disparity in their speed over long distances and short bursts and it makes sense considering they are martial artists, not marathon runners. But that's about it. (I am not feeling well so I might take time in between replies!)
- 31,404
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- Thread starter
- #325
Thanks for responding.
Can't respond to all of it at this moment, but regarding this bit:
I find that highly unlikely. Goku has to take a Senzu Bean as soon as he got back to Earth.
I'll try to continue on with this later today, but no promises.
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Of course he did to replenish all of his energy. But Goku probably didn't know in advance that there'd be a senzu bean waiting for him for sure, so he'd still like to keep some energy in reserve for the actual fighting.
- 31,404
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- Thread starter
- #328
In general the majority are in favor, but it's not a massive number and we haven't actually reached a conclusion and I don't expect us to soon. The discussion is still ongoing and probably will be for the rest of the week as there are more arcs to cover, and I've got a number of calcs to create and then get evaluated.
thetechmaster36
He/Him- 1,830
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Happy Birthday, Damage!
I'm still fine with having flight speed be lower than combat speed. We generally see much, much higher feats from combat speed.plus, let's be real, this changes barely anything
I'm still fine with having flight speed be lower than combat speed. We generally see much, much higher feats from combat speed.
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fully agree with AKM here. Not an outlier.
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Happy birthday Damage!
Regarding this thread, I'm fine with separating long distance flight speed from combat and short burst speed, and I'm fine with it being a general rule that combat speed is generally above flight speed in Dragon Ball (which really helps come Dragon Ball Super, especially the manga).
However, I disagree with the Piccolo moon bust speed being above his Makankosappo speed, mainly for Charmander's reasons.
Regarding this thread, I'm fine with separating long distance flight speed from combat and short burst speed, and I'm fine with it being a general rule that combat speed is generally above flight speed in Dragon Ball (which really helps come Dragon Ball Super, especially the manga).
However, I disagree with the Piccolo moon bust speed being above his Makankosappo speed, mainly for Charmander's reasons.
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Gilad_Hyperstar
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If every feat is considered an outlier, then this defeats the purpose of having a feat in the first place
Also, there was nothing to explain why it can only be used for "short bursts", and not for longer given that:
1) They never shown to have their stamina drained when going this fast in every feat this happens, nor mention once that outspeeding the opponents blasts require a lot of stamina
2) They don't even need to show longer distances since their purpose is to fight the enemy, which mostly happens close to them, so they won't go too far (and even then, it happens time and time again such as with Frieza VS Vegeta, Goku VS Vegeta in Saiyan Saga and Goku VS Frieza)
3) The fact they can even begin to fly or run away and try to evade and outspeed the attack shows that the flight speed must be around the same level as the combat speed, otherwise the blasts would've caught to them instantly without giving them a chance to run away. Assuming their reactions scale to combat speed, they could see the blast coming at them, but with such a big gap when they try to move away it would appear as if they're going at a snail pace by comparison
Also, there was nothing to explain why it can only be used for "short bursts", and not for longer given that:
1) They never shown to have their stamina drained when going this fast in every feat this happens, nor mention once that outspeeding the opponents blasts require a lot of stamina
2) They don't even need to show longer distances since their purpose is to fight the enemy, which mostly happens close to them, so they won't go too far (and even then, it happens time and time again such as with Frieza VS Vegeta, Goku VS Vegeta in Saiyan Saga and Goku VS Frieza)
3) The fact they can even begin to fly or run away and try to evade and outspeed the attack shows that the flight speed must be around the same level as the combat speed, otherwise the blasts would've caught to them instantly without giving them a chance to run away. Assuming their reactions scale to combat speed, they could see the blast coming at them, but with such a big gap when they try to move away it would appear as if they're going at a snail pace by comparison
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There are so many necro'd topics and some blatant false information. Piccolo's feat is far more consistent than Roshi's which is also blatantly a solid Relativistic+ attack speed feat that scales to everyone who can react to his Ki blasts. It's no outlier. As for Super's Massively FTL+ stuff, the scaling now comes from Goku and Beerus having the ability to react to their own attack speed; with it being very casual in Beerus' case and Goku growing much faster later on. We are not using the 6, 10, 15 statements that have more to do with attack power rather than flight speed anyway. The "Beerus flew in 3/4ths one of Whis' speed feats was apparently forgotten when we found new feats, which was also much less impressive than various other feats Whis has or Beerus' attack speed but it's still very much well into Massively FTL+.
As for everything else, I have still been reading the thread and still agree more with what GodlyCharmander is saying.
As for everything else, I have still been reading the thread and still agree more with what GodlyCharmander is saying.
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Also, Happy Birthday Damage! Take the time off the wiki to enjoy your day as much as possible.
UeTa
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Thanks for the infos and Happy Birthday !
You should go rest/party instead getting tired arguing there tbh. It look complicated.
- 31,404
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- Thread starter
- #338
Aye... If nobody minds, I'll postpone this and get back to the revision tomorrow.Thanks for the infos and Happy Birthday !
You should go rest/party instead getting tired arguing there tbh. It look complicated.
thetechmaster36
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Yessir go ahead and do that, today's your special day
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We're nowhere near them.
speedster352
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Happy birthday damage3245
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Happy Birthday Damage3245.
Been following the thread loosely, I'm honestly unsure as a whole regarding my stance.
Been following the thread loosely, I'm honestly unsure as a whole regarding my stance.
- 31,404
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- Thread starter
- #349
Thanks.
I said earlier up above that we're not near to a conclusion.
There's no rush for this though, once I've finished gathering more stuff I can ping relevant staff memebrs.
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Gilad_Hyperstar
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He literally did though. He managed to escape and travel to Yardrat.
Besides, by the time he finally finished Frieza, he got only few seconds at most to not only reach the ship, but escape as well, and since Goku and Frieza traveled to the other side of the planet, that is a considerab;e distance he needed to cross over the course of few seconds at most
Vizer04
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That's incorrect, Frieza's ship wasn't that far away from the place they were fighting Frieza.
- 31,404
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- Thread starter
- #353
Yeah, Gilad is right that Goku did reach the ship.
I already mentioned this up above, but Goku and Frieza weren't on the other side of the planet. That volume description is simply incorrect.
UeTa
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It's true that this is an important plot point to not overlook.
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He literally did tho... That's how he got to Yardrat and learned Instant Transmission
Vizer04
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When did they said that?
GodlyCharmander
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That's something exclusive to the eng shounen jump, the Japanese version has nothing of the sorts.
UeTa
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I know, what I mean is that he took time to get to the ship when in a hurry. Even if he was weakened he was in Super Saiyan and was not at the opposite side of the planet. THAT is the important plot point to not overlook.
