Weird scaling in Toei profiles.

[StrymULTRA]

Ok so...

First thing first, from where does High 3-A even come from? Because it really does seem to come from scaling above 3-C people:

Goku: High Universe level, far higher with Super Saiyan transformations (Has even greater power than Cell Saga Gohan as a Super Saiyan 2,[11] matched Majin Vegeta, and easily overpowered Innocent Buu as a Super Saiyan 3. Shook the Afterlife by merely transforming; Beat up Janemba, who he stated to have the strongest ki he'd ever felt[12])

Fat Buu: High Universe level (Gradually destroyed an entire galaxy.[43] Made a complete joke out of Dabura,[44] who's as strong as Cell.[7] Severely injured Majin Vegeta,[45] and would have killed him had Trunks not intervened.[46] Is capable of holding his own against a casual Super Saiyan 3 Goku.[13] Effortlessly defeated Gotenks[47])
Vegeta: High Universe level, higher as a Super Saiyan 1 and 2 (Matched Goku, Piccolo noted that Majin Vegeta's power eclipsed Gohan's against Super Perfect Cell)

Gohan: High Universe level, far higher with Super Saiyan forms (Comparable to Goku [Pre-Vegito Division] after training with the Z sword)

Janemba: High Universe level (Goku stated that Janemba's ki is the strongest ki he has ever felt. Comparable to his durability) / High Universe level (Took numerous hits from a serious Super Saiyan 3 Goku)

Rest of the High 3-A characters are movie ones that scale above Broly (and btw why are these scans untranslated? what am I supposed to see if I don't know Japanese?).

 

[Damage3245]

Ok so...

First thing first, from where does High 3-A even come from? Because it really does seem to come from scaling above 3-C people:

Does it not come from this line of Goku's justification?:

Shook the Afterlife by merely transforming

 

[StrymULTRA]

Does it not come from this line of Goku's justification?:

Ah. . . .

Well could have been made more obvious given that it didn't seem that important lmao.

Anyway, the note says this:

• Most of the Dragon Ball Z Movies are not considered part of the anime continuity, with only some exceptions (Dead Zone, Cooler's Revenge, Fusion Reborn and Wrath of the Dragon)

Which is interesting because if you look frame-by-frame at this scene of Fusion Reborn, you'll notice even Paragus, Zangya and Bojack are there.

And this ain't even everything, because at the end of Movie 11, it's implied that Goku and Pikkon could easily take care of Second Coming Broly.

Which is oddily consistent with Super Perfect Cell in anime not just boasting about destroying the Solar System, but also the Universe. Him stating to destroy the SS in anime is pure fanon as he never says that there, it's only in the manga (which is oddily consistent with Cell being stated have infinite battle power, too)

Am I suggesting to make Super Perfect Cell High 3-A, and so also SSJ2 Gohan and anything that is above them? **** yes, because we all should know that Gohan's SSJ2 boost ain't a simple x2, but is an exponential one due to his rage.

But probably even the Cell Game Saga SSJ Goku, Vegeta, etc, if we accept Broly as fitting the main timeline.

 

[Ednaxel2]

Him stating to destroy the SS in anime is pure fanon as he never says that there

This statement doesn't really matter though

You're going way off topic going on about the canon between the anime and movies, which is already being handled in another thread. If you wanna add the uni arguments for Cell then just make another thread to add that.

 

[StrymULTRA]

You're going way off topic going on about the canon between the anime and movies, which is already being handled in another thread.

Did not know lol.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Anyway, if only SSJ3 Goku is High 3-A then for now I'll disagree with people downscaling off a single notion of "well infinity/400 is still infinity", as I'd remind you that Dragon Ball does not treat actually infinite levels of AP as being infinite power level in-verse, as Goku clearly doesn't become infinitely stronger than his Cell Saga self, let's not be silly.

If we wanna take this route, why shouldn't SSJ2 Gohan, Perfect Cell, or even Frieza, be not High 3-A too? After all, they're not infinitely weaker PL-wise, Goku reaches the level he has in the Buu saga through only finite boosts, even Buuhan is 2-C through only a finite multiplication, despite Tier 2 is uncountable infinite AP. So why shouldn't everyone be also 2-C off this line of logic too?

In my opinion, what matters the most is the narrative before putting literal math between in this. While I do think that SSJ3 Goku should be 2-C too even before Vegito due to him and Gohan being relatives at very least (but that's for another thread), nothing should be High 3-A sans SSJ3 Goku, as his level of power is portrayed as being massively above every SSJ2 that appeared before him. Saying that Majin Vegeta (or even base Vegeta lmao) should be in the same tier as SSJ3 Goku is the equivalent of saying that a dude got stomped by a High 3-A/Low 2-C deity, but as he wasn't pulverized by a single blast, he should "downscale" because of this infinity talk, while it's obviously not the case.

 

[CloverDragon03]

Saying that Majin Vegeta (or even base Vegeta lmao) should be in the same tier as SSJ3 Goku is the equivalent of saying that a dude got stomped by a High 3-A/Low 2-C deity, but as he wasn't pulverized by a single blast, he should "downscale" because of this infinity talk, while it's obviously not the case.

Holy false equivalence, we know for a fact that SSJ2 Vegeta/Majin Vegeta would only 4x weaker than SSJ3 Goku, so no we should not just ignore that

 

[StrymULTRA]

Holy false equivalence, we know for a fact that SSJ2 Vegeta/Majin Vegeta would only 4x weaker than SSJ3 Goku, so no we should not just ignore that

He'd be stomped to hell and back as x2 in Dragon Ball is literally equivalent to a stomp lmao.

No one would look at this website seriously (or more than they barely do) if they notice him being still comparable to a dude who'd murder him.

 

[Darkmon_cns]

He'd be stomped to hell and back as x2 in Dragon Ball is literally equivalent to a stomp lmao.

No one would look at this website seriously (or more than they barely do) if they notice him being still comparable to a dude who'd murder him.

That's appel to consequence and you've already acknowledge they are just 4 times apart /:

There's not really a logical reason not too- just that the gap is still enough to just kill him, we know that but we also know what that gap is

 

[StrymULTRA]

That's appel to consequence and you've already acknowledge they are just 4 times apart /:

There's not really a logical reason not too- just that the gap is still enough to just kill him, we know that but we also know what that gap is

Ok, and? Again, the verse literally treats infinite gaps in tier as being finite gaps in power.

Why isn't everyone 2-C then? Given they're all finitely below Buuhan.

 

[Darkmon_cns]

Ok, and? Again, the verse literally treats infinite gaps in tier as being finite gaps in power.

Why isn't everyone 2-C then? Given they're all finitely below Buuhan.

There is no scaling chain connecting anyone to Buuhan besides SS3gotanks and Ultimate gohan himself. With vegito above him

 

[Damage3245]

I do think that no matter what, Goku's profile needs some rewriting if he's going to stay High 3-A. If you look at his profile now, it looks like his primary justification is scaling over Gohan which it shouldn't be.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Like there's no scaling connection between SSJ3 Goku and the stuff below him, really. Fat Buu was stomped from SSJ3 Goku, and stomped Majin Vegeta, who is above a normal SSJ2 Vegeta.

I don't think you guys can call it "scaling" outside of multiplier which, again, would cause some complications.

We already used to make SSJB Low 2-C and SSJG 3-A, so I don't see why this should be any different.

I do think that no matter what, Goku's profile needs some rewriting if he's going to stay High 3-A. If you look at his profile now, it looks like his primary justification is scaling over Gohan which it shouldn't be.

True.

 

[Darkmon_cns]

Like there's no scaling connection between SSJ3 Goku and the stuff below him, really. Fat Buu was stomped from SSJ3 Goku, and stomped Majin Vegeta, who is above a normal SSJ2 Vegeta.

I don't think you guys can call it "scaling" outside of multiplier which, again, would cause some complications.

We already used to make SSJB Low 2-C and SSJG 3-A, so I don't see why this should be any different.

SSG and SSB were argue about for a long time they were 2A and low 2-C because the aurgment blue wasn't necessarily a 50X god existed. After they got on the same level it was dropped because there wasn't a good reason to assume it wasn't the same as SS anymore.

The multipliers are the scaling chain. Buuhan dosen't have that.

 

[StrymULTRA]

SSG and SSB were argue about for a long time they were 2A and low 2-C because the aurgment blue wasn't necessarily a 50X god existed.

And they remained the way they were until 2-C came out, how odd.

The multipliers are the scaling chain. Buuhan dosen't have that.

Do I have you to remember when SSJ3 Goku had a separate rating from his SSJ1-2 before?

 

[Darkmon_cns]

Do I have you to remember when SSJ3 Goku had a separate rating from his SSJ1-2 before?

No actually but I do remember it took a long time for the SS multiplers to be accepted it probably predates them. and I don't think it's relevant to This discuss it was done that way in the past isn't an aurgment for doing it now

 

[StrymULTRA]

No actually but I do remember it took a long time for the SS multiplers

Only SSJ2 and 3 weren't. SSJB was indeed a x50 over SSJG even back then.

Regardless I am saying this because... if we did this before, why not now?

 

[CloverDragon03]

I do think that no matter what, Goku's profile needs some rewriting if he's going to stay High 3-A. If you look at his profile now, it looks like his primary justification is scaling over Gohan which it shouldn't be.

I can agree to that, like putting emphasis on the Afterlife shaking feat and having his lower forms emphasized as being 1/400, 1/8, and 1/4 the strength of his SSJ3 form respectively

He'd be stomped to hell and back as x2 in Dragon Ball is literally equivalent to a stomp lmao.

No one would look at this website seriously (or more than they barely do) if they notice him being still comparable to a dude who'd murder him.

Neither of these are arguments. 2x is still 2x, and I don't care what people outside think

We already used to make SSJB Low 2-C and SSJG 3-A, so I don't see why this should be any different.

SSB and SSG don't have official multipliers, that's the difference. That simple

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

If we do keep Base Goku at High 3-A, we could probably use him holding his own against Fat Janemba as justification.

 

[StrymULTRA]

If we do keep Base Goku at High 3-A, we could probably use him holding his own against Fat Janemba as justification.

Or High 3-A Toei Cell/scaling from Broly.

 

[Darkmon_cns]

Regardless I am saying this because... if we did this before, why not now?

Again if we did it before why not know isn't an aurgment for doing it your not giving an actual reason to.

 

[KaizerCone]

Ok since the High 3A ratings seems to have been fixed and people are now bringing up Buuhan. Shouldn't we make a new thread for fixing the 2C ratings now or should we keep using this thread?