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That's what I'm saying, yeah.Isn't a lot of this just PIS tho?
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That's what I'm saying, yeah.Isn't a lot of this just PIS tho?
So, PIS wouldn't really be accepted as valid antifeats. At that point, we could just have 3-A Android 18.That's what I'm saying, yeah.
How about we focus on the purpose of the OP instead? I'm sure the whole Piccolo calc being inconsistent can be dealt with in another thread.
I mean, the thread's purpose is to separate Flight and Combat speeds.Addressing whether or not the Piccolo feat is inconsistent or not depends on the result of this thread I would say.
I won't focus on the Piccolo feat for now then.
Are you insinuating that the the man actually closed the ting?Saw the thread actually close and started choking in laughter
Honestly speaking, this guy makes the most sense.I think that those speed times are for plot convenience. Like Frieza saying Namek will be destroyed in five minutes. It wouldn't make a great story, if they all blitzed the planets. Same goes for Superman. He can fly millions xC, but still needs time to fly to another city . While the author could easily make him appear in the city one millionth of a second. It just for story telling and pacing.
Just briefly.Are you insinuating that the the man actually closed the ting?
Honestly speaking, this guy makes the most sense.
I feel like we won't reach a conclusion because both sides have enough points that neither side can counter. I mean half of your points wasn't even addressed neither by Charmander nor Gilad.Maybe, but by that logic we might as well not index anything. I'm also looking for a potential compromise here, but that does not mean throwing out literally every single feat that goes against the current speed ratings setup.
I feel like we won't reach a conclusion because both sides have enough points that neither side can counter. I mean half of your points wasn't even addressed neither by Charmander nor Gilad.
Similarly you didn't address all of their Contra points either.
The other problem is that if we do it for Dragonball , we have to do it for every other Verse as well since this is a Versus debate platform and everything has to be kept fair... Like I seriously doubt that most of the mainstream Anime protagonist have FTL travel speed if we look at them strictly.
Whether or not other Verses have exaggerated Travel speed ratings is irrelevant to Dragon Ball.The other problem is that if we do it for Dragonball , we have to do it for every other Verse as well since this is a Versus debate platform and everything has to be kept fair... Like I seriously doubt that most of the mainstream Anime protagonist have FTL travel speed if we look at them strictly.
Don't you actually have enough votes to get this applied? Most of Staff seem to agreeYeah, I've got more points coming too.
Don't you actually have enough votes to get this applied? Most of Staff seem to agree
Dude, only 7 staff members responded, only 3 agree to make travel speed and combat speed distinct here (Qaws, Saman and KingTempest), two staff members (DDM and AKM, Both being DB experts, and AKM being a bureaucrat) disagree with the feats used in the OP to be used as anti-feats and have given reasons for why they can't be used as such (While they do agree that combat speed triumphs over travel speed, they also stated that the difference isn't that big and that their travel speed is at least comparable to, if not slower than their combat speed and they have yet to respond to the new points brought up in the thread since their response), and two other staff members disagree with OP (Me and Clover).Don't you actually have enough votes to get this applied? Most of Staff seem to agree
Sorry stupid question but doesn't Damage own vote count as well? XD(Qaws, Saman and KingTempest
I wouldn't say DDM and AKM are neutral, they disagree with majority of Damage's feats brought up and haven't gotten time to respond to the new points brought up after.Sorry stupid question but doesn't Damage own vote count as well? XD
4 in favour, 2 neutral and 2 against it
Hooooold on. What did Maverick vote?Whether or not other Verses have exaggerated Travel speed ratings is irrelevant to Dragon Ball.
Hmmmm, okay then.As far as I'm aware, a staff members vote counts for their own CRT too.
A staff member is trusted to try and be objective after all.
That's been the case for prior CRTs I've started and I've seen other staff members start. Obviously a staff member alone can't pass their CRT with just their vote by itself.
I... don't think he did? Yet? If he did, I prolly lost the vote in the comments.Hooooold on. What did Maverick vote?
Just a thing though. Why? Whis is far and away the fastest thing in Universe 7, and it’s never said beyond the now-retconned Toriyama BoG statement that anyone even approaches him.Here's the thing tho, Beerus and co. downscale from him.
Something to do with comparison of Beerus taking slightly longer to reach a planet than Whis or something. @AKM sama knows the deets most probably.Just a thing though. Why? Whis is far and away the fastest thing in Universe 7, and it’s never said beyond the now-retconned Toriyama BoG statement that anyone even approaches him.
What you do mean by? "it’s never said beyond the now-retconned Toriyama BoG statement that anyone even approaches him"Just a thing though. Why? Whis is far and away the fastest thing in Universe 7, and it’s never said beyond the now-retconned Toriyama BoG statement that anyone even approaches him.
The statement that SSJG Goku is a 7 while Beerus is a 10 and Whis is a 15. It’s long since been retconned because during that fight Goku was like a .001 to Beerus’s 10.What you do mean by? "it’s never said beyond the now-retconned Toriyama BoG statement that anyone even approaches him"
Ah that feat. It very much shouldn’t be used for scaling, imo. Beerus arrives on a not-too-distant planet in 20 minutes when it takes Whis 15. Neither we’re going anywhere above casual unless you’d wanna assume that Whis is like 1c.Something to do with comparison of Beerus taking slightly longer to reach a planet than Whis or something. @AKM sama knows the deets most probably.
I’m neutral for now. Personally think there’s some more discussion to be had.Hooooold on. What did Maverick vote?
You shouldn't use rule of 3 with power levels.I've got Namek Saga SSJ Goku at 0.64357c. When we use Saiyan Saga Goku's Snake Way feat and divide 150 million by 8000. It seems extremely low. It does not reach the speed of light in the Namek Saga for the top tiers.
Goku didn't need the full two days to cross it. The feat is calculated to be Mach 30. Also, here is the Namek feat debunk: https://www.kanzenshuu.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=38186Taking the matter into further consideration I’ll have to agree with their long distance travel speed and combat speed being disproportionate. Scouring through the DB Manga I didn’t find a lot of Travel Speed feats, but here’s every notable travel feat I noticed:
Also I heard 22nd Tenkaichi Budokai Goku has a feat of crossing 20,000 miles but I’m pretty sure that’s anime-only.
- Raditz Saga Piccolo keeping up with the Flying Nimbus
- Vegeta Saga Goku clocked Mach 16 when taking two days to cross
- Snake Way, a million kilometers
- Goku crossing an unknown distance on Namek
- SSJ Gotenks lapping the Earth 9(?) times, though an exact time frame is indeterminate without using the anime
It was anywhere between 15 to 25 minutes.Taking the matter into further consideration I’ll have to agree with their long distance travel speed and combat speed being disproportionate. Scouring through the DB Manga I didn’t find a lot of Travel Speed feats, but here’s every notable travel feat I noticed:
- Raditz Saga Piccolo keeping up with the Flying Nimbus
- Vegeta Saga Goku clocked Mach 16 when taking two days to cross
- Snake Way, a million kilometers
- Goku crossing a considerable distance on Namek
- SSJ Gotenks lapping the Earth 9(?) times, though an exact time frame is indeterminate without using the anime
Thank you for getting involved with the discussion, that is a good blog post.Taking the matter into further consideration I’ll have to agree with their long distance travel speed and combat speed being disproportionate. Scouring through the DB Manga I didn’t find a lot of Travel Speed feats, but here’s every notable travel feat I noticed:
Also I heard 22nd Tenkaichi Budokai Goku has a feat of crossing 20,000 miles but I’m pretty sure that’s anime-only.
- Raditz Saga Piccolo keeping up with the Flying Nimbus
- Vegeta Saga Goku clocked Mach 16 when taking two days to cross
- Snake Way, a million kilometers
- Goku crossing a considerable distance on Namek
- SSJ Gotenks lapping the Earth 9(?) times, though an exact time frame is indeterminate without using the anime
Snake Way is only believed to be 1 million kilometers long. Nobody actually know how truly long it is
Recently people were arguing that Piccolo's SBC could be potentially slower than the moon-blast due to "inconsistency" regarding the feat.Let it be said that I obviously strongly disagree with Piccolo's SBC being an outlier in terms of speed. The thing has been discussed several times in the past even before I joined the wiki, and since this thread is not about that, I won't be saying more on this.
Having said that, is there a TLDR post that I need to see? Because it seems the discussion was going at a quick pace.
That was only at the beginning, and after that he couldn't do it anymore and was forced to run along the wayYeah, that means it could be shorter or longer, but the best figure for us to use is 1 million kilometers. Let's not forget as well that Goku was shortcutting a lot of that distance by not following the path exactly but jumping over it and flying at times.