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Revising Dragon Ball Flight Speed (Dragon Ball + DBZ + DBS Manga)

Alright.

So, the point of "SBC might be slower than unnamed Ki Blast" was rebutted by me, as Damage never really countered it. We have two very strong supports for SBC being particularly fast, while none for the Ki Blast, so there is no point in speculating on a point absolutely impossible to prove.

If we have a problem with the Rel+ being outlier, then we should focus on that. Focus on what you all consider anti-feats, focus on why the value is being considered an outlier. Bringing up the Piccolo SBC stuff did nothing to help these points, so it derailed the post significantly.


How about we focus on the purpose of the OP instead? I'm sure the whole Piccolo calc being inconsistent can be dealt with in another thread.
 
How about we focus on the purpose of the OP instead? I'm sure the whole Piccolo calc being inconsistent can be dealt with in another thread.

Addressing whether or not the Piccolo feat is inconsistent or not depends on the result of this thread I would say.

I won't focus on the Piccolo feat for now then.
 
Addressing whether or not the Piccolo feat is inconsistent or not depends on the result of this thread I would say.

I won't focus on the Piccolo feat for now then.
I mean, the thread's purpose is to separate Flight and Combat speeds.

If we accept that both are comparable, then the thread's purpose has been 'rejected', and the inconsistencies are going to be a subject for speed in general being slower, which might warrant another thread on its own.

If we accept that both are not comparable, then there is no point in discussing combat speed at all.
 
I think that those speed times are for plot convenience. Like Frieza saying Namek will be destroyed in five minutes. It wouldn't make a great story, if they all blitzed the planets. Same goes for Superman. He can fly millions xC, but still needs time to fly to another city . While the author could easily make him appear in the city one millionth of a second. It just for story telling and pacing.
Honestly speaking, this guy makes the most sense.
 
Are you insinuating that the the man actually closed the ting?
Just briefly.

Honestly speaking, this guy makes the most sense.

Maybe, but by that logic we might as well not index anything. I'm also looking for a potential compromise here, but that does not mean throwing out literally every single feat that goes against the current speed ratings setup.
 
Maybe, but by that logic we might as well not index anything. I'm also looking for a potential compromise here, but that does not mean throwing out literally every single feat that goes against the current speed ratings setup.
I feel like we won't reach a conclusion because both sides have enough points that neither side can counter. I mean half of your points wasn't even addressed neither by Charmander nor Gilad.
Similarly you didn't address all of their Contra points either. The debate isn't going forward for the last 2 pages. It's essentially a yes/no debate.

The other problem is that if we do it for Dragonball , we have to do it for every other Verse as well since this is a Versus debate platform and everything has to be kept fair... Like I seriously doubt that most of the mainstream Anime protagonist have FTL travel speed if we look at them strictly.
 
I feel like we won't reach a conclusion because both sides have enough points that neither side can counter. I mean half of your points wasn't even addressed neither by Charmander nor Gilad.

Yeah, I've got more points coming too.

Similarly you didn't address all of their Contra points either.

Which ones specifically haven't been addressed at all?

The other problem is that if we do it for Dragonball , we have to do it for every other Verse as well since this is a Versus debate platform and everything has to be kept fair... Like I seriously doubt that most of the mainstream Anime protagonist have FTL travel speed if we look at them strictly.

Sorry to be blunt but I don't care at all for any other verse outside of this thread right now. If we have to tackle them once this thread is done, I'll do that. Until then, it's not an issue. We can't let this thread in particular get stopped because we're worried about how it might affect other verses.
 
The other problem is that if we do it for Dragonball , we have to do it for every other Verse as well since this is a Versus debate platform and everything has to be kept fair... Like I seriously doubt that most of the mainstream Anime protagonist have FTL travel speed if we look at them strictly.
Whether or not other Verses have exaggerated Travel speed ratings is irrelevant to Dragon Ball.
 
Don't you actually have enough votes to get this applied? Most of Staff seem to agree

I want to be thorough. It wouldn't feel right if I let this additional research I've done not get mentioned here yet. Besides, this kind of potentially huge change to the verse shouldn't be rushed through in a couple days.

Once I've posted the Namek Arc stuff, I'll do another check amongst the staff members who have commented here so far, and see where we can go from there.
 
Don't you actually have enough votes to get this applied? Most of Staff seem to agree
Dude, only 7 staff members responded, only 3 agree to make travel speed and combat speed distinct here (Qaws, Saman and KingTempest), two staff members (DDM and AKM, Both being DB experts, and AKM being a bureaucrat) disagree with the feats used in the OP to be used as anti-feats and have given reasons for why they can't be used as such (While they do agree that combat speed triumphs over travel speed, they also stated that the difference isn't that big and that their travel speed is at least comparable to, if not slower than their combat speed and they have yet to respond to the new points brought up in the thread since their response), and two other staff members disagree with OP (Me and Clover).

This isn't enough agreement. We need further evaluation.
 
Sorry stupid question but doesn't Damage own vote count as well? XD
4 in favour, 2 neutral and 2 against it
I wouldn't say DDM and AKM are neutral, they disagree with majority of Damage's feats brought up and haven't gotten time to respond to the new points brought up after.

Also AFAIK you can only vote on your own thread if it's a VS thread and if it's a good win con for others to use.
 
As far as I'm aware, a staff members vote counts for their own CRT too.

A staff member is trusted to try and be objective after all.

That's been the case for prior CRTs I've started and I've seen other staff members start. Obviously a staff member alone can't pass their CRT with just their vote by itself.
 
As far as I'm aware, a staff members vote counts for their own CRT too.

A staff member is trusted to try and be objective after all.

That's been the case for prior CRTs I've started and I've seen other staff members start. Obviously a staff member alone can't pass their CRT with just their vote by itself.
Hmmmm, okay then.

In any case, let's wait for the Namek feats, and then let's wait for what DDM and AKM have to say.
 
Here's the thing tho, Beerus and co. downscale from him.
Just a thing though. Why? Whis is far and away the fastest thing in Universe 7, and it’s never said beyond the now-retconned Toriyama BoG statement that anyone even approaches him.
 
Just a thing though. Why? Whis is far and away the fastest thing in Universe 7, and it’s never said beyond the now-retconned Toriyama BoG statement that anyone even approaches him.
Something to do with comparison of Beerus taking slightly longer to reach a planet than Whis or something. @AKM sama knows the deets most probably.
 
Just a thing though. Why? Whis is far and away the fastest thing in Universe 7, and it’s never said beyond the now-retconned Toriyama BoG statement that anyone even approaches him.
What you do mean by? "it’s never said beyond the now-retconned Toriyama BoG statement that anyone even approaches him"
 
What you do mean by? "it’s never said beyond the now-retconned Toriyama BoG statement that anyone even approaches him"
The statement that SSJG Goku is a 7 while Beerus is a 10 and Whis is a 15. It’s long since been retconned because during that fight Goku was like a .001 to Beerus’s 10.
Something to do with comparison of Beerus taking slightly longer to reach a planet than Whis or something. @AKM sama knows the deets most probably.
Ah that feat. It very much shouldn’t be used for scaling, imo. Beerus arrives on a not-too-distant planet in 20 minutes when it takes Whis 15. Neither we’re going anywhere above casual unless you’d wanna assume that Whis is like 1c.
 
That said, I do think that DB characters (not counting Super as I’m not touching that) are, at least in terms of flight speed, barely FTL, if at all, even factoring in multipliers. But like, probably shouldn’t be listed as we mainly focus on combat speed, and literally every other speed but their flight speed scales to their combat speed.
 
You can still list flight speed, just say X flight speed, Y in combat/reactions/short bursts or something like that
 
Given Goku running out of steam less than halfway through the snakeway, it seems like flight takes quite a bit of energy. We have Goku flying on par with Freeza's attack speed for quite a bit of time.

What should we do with this information?
 
I've got Namek Saga SSJ Goku at 0.64357c. When we use Saiyan Saga Goku's Snake Way feat and divide 150 million by 8000. It seems extremely low. It does not reach the speed of light in the Namek Saga for the top tiers.
 
Taking the matter into further consideration I’ll have to agree with their long distance travel speed and combat speed being disproportionate. Scouring through the DB Manga I didn’t find a lot of Travel Speed feats, but here’s every notable travel feat I noticed:
Also I heard 22nd Tenkaichi Budokai Goku has a feat of crossing 20,000 miles but I’m pretty sure that’s anime-only.
 
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Taking the matter into further consideration I’ll have to agree with their long distance travel speed and combat speed being disproportionate. Scouring through the DB Manga I didn’t find a lot of Travel Speed feats, but here’s every notable travel feat I noticed:
Also I heard 22nd Tenkaichi Budokai Goku has a feat of crossing 20,000 miles but I’m pretty sure that’s anime-only.
Goku didn't need the full two days to cross it. The feat is calculated to be Mach 30. Also, here is the Namek feat debunk: https://www.kanzenshuu.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=38186

Gotenks stated that he circled the earth several dozens time
 
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Taking the matter into further consideration I’ll have to agree with their long distance travel speed and combat speed being disproportionate. Scouring through the DB Manga I didn’t find a lot of Travel Speed feats, but here’s every notable travel feat I noticed:
It was anywhere between 15 to 25 minutes.

His fusion (which lasts 30 minutes) was ending when Piccolo found him, and Gotenks took a nap (which can last between 5 to 15 minutes)
 
Taking the matter into further consideration I’ll have to agree with their long distance travel speed and combat speed being disproportionate. Scouring through the DB Manga I didn’t find a lot of Travel Speed feats, but here’s every notable travel feat I noticed:
Also I heard 22nd Tenkaichi Budokai Goku has a feat of crossing 20,000 miles but I’m pretty sure that’s anime-only.
Thank you for getting involved with the discussion, that is a good blog post.

But the Goku crossing a certain distance on Namek one is not so impressive. Vegeta and the others weren't a far distance away.
 
Snake Way is only believed to be 1 million kilometers long. Nobody actually know how truly long it is

Yeah, that means it could be shorter or longer, but the best figure for us to use is 1 million kilometers. Let's not forget as well that Goku was shortcutting a lot of that distance by not following the path exactly but jumping over it and flying at times.
 
Let it be said that I obviously strongly disagree with Piccolo's SBC being an outlier in terms of speed. The thing has been discussed several times in the past even before I joined the wiki, and since this thread is not about that, I won't be saying more on this (I largely agree with GodlyCharmander).

Having said that, is there a TLDR post that I need to see? Because it seems the discussion was going at a quick pace.
 
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Let it be said that I obviously strongly disagree with Piccolo's SBC being an outlier in terms of speed. The thing has been discussed several times in the past even before I joined the wiki, and since this thread is not about that, I won't be saying more on this.

Having said that, is there a TLDR post that I need to see? Because it seems the discussion was going at a quick pace.
Recently people were arguing that Piccolo's SBC could be potentially slower than the moon-blast due to "inconsistency" regarding the feat.
 
Yeah, that means it could be shorter or longer, but the best figure for us to use is 1 million kilometers. Let's not forget as well that Goku was shortcutting a lot of that distance by not following the path exactly but jumping over it and flying at times.
That was only at the beginning, and after that he couldn't do it anymore and was forced to run along the way
 
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