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No.Doesn't Gas' feat actually debunk the anime's speed rating. That they can blitz the universe several times?
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No.Doesn't Gas' feat actually debunk the anime's speed rating. That they can blitz the universe several times?
I think it does, because if a high tier character like Gas needs 20 minutes to get to where Goku is. No matter what the distance is. The sextillion to septillion xc gets negated, since no matter what the distance is. He should have blitzed the universe.
laughs in Gas being manga-onlyDoesn't Gas' feat actually debunk the anime's speed rating. That they can blitz the universe several times?
No.I think it does, because if a high tier character like Gas needs 20 minutes to get to where Goku is. No matter what the distance is. The sextillion to septillion xc gets negated, since no matter what the distance is. He should have blitzed the universe.
Can you open it after this thread?Pretty sure the speed of Gas and DBS as a whole is off-topic
Nope, because manga DBS is different than anime DBSDoesn't Gas' feat actually debunk the anime's speed rating. That they can blitz the universe several times?
Ok then, I apologize, but even then, we can still estimate a lowballed timeframe and use it. This isn't completely invalid@Gilad_Hyperstar No need to say "As a calc group member, you should know this."
I never said that you were wrong or that the feat was invalid. I just said I think the feat is less reliable than others.
Whilst that's not a bad statement exactly, "faster than lightning" can be a very typical hyperbole in fiction. Mr. Popo doesn't have to be speaking literally there.Also, In this scan:
1) Mr. Popo tells Goku he must move faster than lightning several times to complete his training
2) With travel speed alone, Mr. Popo can blitz Goku, who can react to attacks faster than Roshi's moon busting Kamehameha (as Goku > King Piccolo > Roshi)
Another instance of inconsistencies when they repeatedly surpass the supposed speeds for DBZ even in OG DB
Proof that this is hyperbole? Mr. Popo isn't shown to be the type of character that uses hyperbole like that.Whilst that's not a bad statement exactly, "faster than lightning" can be a very typical hyperbole in fiction. Mr. Popo doesn't have to be speaking literally there.
Proof that he's being literal? This goes both ways dude, I'm just saying there are countless times in fiction where the phrase "faster than lightning" comes up and it doesn't mean literal MHS+ speeds.Proof that this is hyperbole? Mr. Popo isn't shown to be the type that uses hyperbole like that
Besides, Mr. Popo also had another feat of blitzing Goku with movement speed alone, which is impossible to do for him with just Hypersonic speed, as Goku's reactions are much much faster
This is also consistent with Goku outspeeding Piccolo's ki attack and directing back to him in the 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai, where Goku already surpassed Popo and Kami in speed
He's being literal since he's always shown to be literal with what he says. He doesn't overestimates himself or brags about stuff. When he teached Goku he literally told him what he needs to do, and nothing elseProof that he's being literal? This goes both ways dude, I'm just saying there are countless times in fiction where the phrase "faster than lightning" comes up and it doesn't mean literal MHS+ speeds.
Not being the type of person who brags doesn't prevent a person from using metaphors.He's being literal since he's always shown to be literal with what he says. He doesn't overestimates himself or brags about stuff. When he teached Goku he literally told him what he needs to do, and nothing else
Also, as I said, he blitzed Goku, who can react to Relativistic attacks, with just movement speed, which supports him being able to move at such speeds when he literally demonstrated that
Also helping is that Goku later outspeeds Piccolo's attack and redirects it back to him, despite Piccolo's attack being faster than Roshi's Kamehameha
Nah, anime needs no revisiting other than the re-scaling and whatnot, but this is not the topic of this thread, so leave it out.@Veronica
Manga and Anime are two different continuities, so the Gas feat doesn't have anything to do with anime speed.
But yeah, DBS anime speeds do need revisiting too
He would be like " Wait they are faster than light and Universal? He cant even destroy a planet" hahah. Btw. he refuses to discuss powescaling debates apparently.someone should send Akira Toriyama this thread
Popo isn't the type of guy to use metaphors either. He's always shown to be pretty literal with what he says or meansNot being the type of person who brags doesn't prevent a person from using metaphors.
If by rescaling you account for the near 500 million times difference between the best feats (Mid Quadrillions) and the top tiers (>245 Septillion), then sure.Nah, anime needs no revisiting other than the re-scaling and whatnot, but this is not the topic of this thread, so leave it out.
That's how the Verse works.If by rescaling you account for the near 500 million times difference between the best feats (Mid Quadrillions) and the top tiers (>245 Septillion), then sure.
But that's not the point of this thread so I'll shush now
I believe that's an issue of the multipliers going to wack from DBS onwards (The multipliers even on their lonesome go well beyond Whis's hundred quadrillion feat), me personally I'd have just kept the Super Dense Ball as is without using multipliers, but yeah, that's an issue for another time.If by rescaling you account for the near 500 million times difference between the best feats (Mid Quadrillions) and the top tiers (>245 Septillion), then sure.
Yeah, you're right, it's not part of this thread.But that's not the point of this thread so I'll shush now
With travel speed alone, Mr. Popo can blitz Goku, who can react to attacks faster than Roshi's moon busting Kamehameha (as Goku > King Piccolo > Roshi)
These feats are all in short bursts, there's no proof that they can travel that fast for long distances.This is also consistent with Goku outspeeding Piccolo's ki attack and directing back to him in the 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai, where Goku already surpassed Popo and Kami in speed
No. There's no proof they can do it only in short bursts. None of you managed to prove it's only for short bursts other than one scan that has been misinterpertedThese feats are all in short bursts, there's no proof that they can travel that fast for long distances.
I can do that later, though there's also the feat of Goku and Jackie Chun having their entire fight in what the audience concieve as "instantly", meaning they moved toward each other and then back away before any of them could even react or register what going onAnyway, i think we should calculate the swiming feat as Gilad said
That would definitely fall under combat speed I believe, not flight speed.I can do that later, though there's also the feat of Goku and Jackie Chun having their entire fight in what the audience concieve as "instantly", meaning they moved toward each other and then back away before any of them could even react or register what going on
No. Combat speed is when they throw punches and ki attacks.That would definitely fall under combat speed I believe, not flight speed.
Correct.Okay, so just to double-check before continuing on with the thread, the only speed calc we use for the Dragon Ball Z manga is this one:
- Piccolo destroys the Moon (Attack Speed): 0.54c (Relativistic+)
From the original Dragon Ball manga, the speed calcs we use are:
- Nam's Combat Speed: Mach 1.055 (Supersonic)
- Tao Pai Pai's Travel Speed: Mach 20.778 (Hypersonic+)
- Master Roshi destroys the Moon (Attack Speed): 0.0986c (Sub-Relativistic+)
These are all the speed calcs actually used on the profiles from Dragon Ball to Dragon Ball Z, right?
Correct.²Okay, so just to double-check before continuing on with the thread, the only speed calc we use for the Dragon Ball Z manga is this one:
- Piccolo destroys the Moon (Attack Speed): 0.54c (Relativistic+)
From the original Dragon Ball manga, the speed calcs we use are:
- Nam's Combat Speed: Mach 1.055 (Supersonic)
- Tao Pai Pai's Travel Speed: Mach 20.778 (Hypersonic+)
- Master Roshi destroys the Moon (Attack Speed): 0.0986c (Sub-Relativistic+)
These are all the speed calcs actually used on the profiles from Dragon Ball to Dragon Ball Z, right?
Yeah I think only these are used as of now, though Roshi's feat may need a recalc since the video used for the feat doesn't exist anymoreOkay, so just to double-check before continuing on with the thread, the only speed calc we use for the Dragon Ball Z manga is this one:
- Piccolo destroys the Moon (Attack Speed): 0.54c (Relativistic+)
From the original Dragon Ball manga, the speed calcs we use are:
- Nam's Combat Speed: Mach 1.055 (Supersonic)
- Tao Pai Pai's Travel Speed: Mach 20.778 (Hypersonic+)
- Master Roshi destroys the Moon (Attack Speed): 0.0986c (Sub-Relativistic+)
These are all the speed calcs actually used on the profiles from Dragon Ball to Dragon Ball Z, right?
Not a counter point, but there's some good ki blast speeds like PC's kamehameha against Goku, SS2 Gohan kamehameha against PC and Buutenks's ki blast tunneling through the Earth.If anyone has some counter-points that support the characters being MFTL aside from just the current multipliers... I'll wait for them.
Yeah, those feats you've mentioned are all Sub-Relativistic if we were generous and assume they took a single second each. Would be slower if we went by the anime's version of them.Not a counter point, but there's some good ki blast speeds like PC's kamehameha against Goku, SS2 Gohan kamehameha against PC and Buutenks's ki blast tunneling through the Earth.
Besides that I believe the only other lightspeed things confirmed in-universe is from that one French/Spanish manga guidebook that called the Death Beams lightspeed (though that would once again contradict MFTL Dragon Ball since only Goku reacted to that attack).