Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara
She/Her- 9,243
- 10,575
This is blatantly incorrect. Divine spirits are incredibly broad in nature, and by ZUN's own admission, Junko is a very specific form of divine spirit, one who's kinda far removed from other divine spirits. We cannot use PMiSS when it's clearly talking about a different kind of divine spirit. But more importantly, treating divine spirits and the Eight Million as wholly separate entities is blatantly wrong.
A pretty clear example of this is how Reimu describes divine spirits as the essence of the gods, and are merely one aspect of themselves that can be divided infinitely; They are not members of the Eight Million by themselves, but they are a crucial part of a god's existence, like how eggs are a crucial part of a cake but eggs by themselves are not a cake (shit analogy but you get the idea).
Another example is how Kanako compares vengeful spirits and divine spirits, and then refers to how divine spirits are easily taken over as a result... while including Suwako in that same statement (mentioned again in TD, where she is described as "having the same nature as" divine spirits), despite Suwako being a part of the Eight Million, additionally shown by how she can split her divine spirit into a branch shrine much like how Reimu explains above. Speaking of which, Reimu also explains that AGAIN in SSiB, explaining that all gods can split their divine spirits infinitely, but more importantly, that gods are divine spirits (mostly divine spirits, anyways).
A slightly more complicated example lies in the Ara and Nigi of divine spirits. Long story short, these are two alternate personalities that divine spirits can manifest. Note the emphasis on divine spirits. Except, for something supposedly unique to divine spirits, it applies to members of the Eight Million as well; The example Rinnosuke uses is that of Konohana-no-Sakuyahime, who is a member of the Eight Million.
When we have people who specialize in the gods and gods themselves confirming that divine spirits can exist as a part of the Eight Million, I think you have to just concede the point here. Maybe don't use sources that are contradicted like a dozen times? Just a suggestion.
Oh, and one more thing? Junko being nameless and a divine spirit contradicts nothing. Nameless things are, by default, divine spirits.
That's not how omnipresence works, at all. Especially not on this site, where many characters have omnipresence but still have single, identifiable forms that can be attacked normally even in their keys with omnipresence (YHVH, to give an example).
NPI is a thing that exists and has always existed. Should we deny phantoms incorporeality as well, since characters physically interact with them too? Or ghosts? Poltergeists? Hell, why stop there? Every feat of NPI is just an anti-feat for incorporeality, might as well nuke the damn power entirely. Also, why does the cast have "no business" interacting with gods? Literally all of them have physically interacted with divine spirits at some point, nonexistent entities like Koishi, abstract entities like Parsee, or whatever other manner of incorporeal beings exist in Gensokyo. It is entirely their business.
Like, I don't think Akyuu was referring to the 5 or so specific people who can interact with Junko in that paragraph. More likely it was directed at the hundreds f humans and youkai who would've read the Gensokyo Chronicle.
oh yeah and reimu can literally talk to and see gods, something that anybody who actually reads this series instead of just coping about it in vs debates could tell you. im tired man.
That's a huge misinterpretation of what that means. A name is a concept; The "blending together" and primordial chaos are all conceptual in nature. Also have no ******* clue where the "gaining the attributes of the whatever they were around" bit came from.
That's because these gods exist within other things. They aren't just out and about floating freely; Most of them exist "within" physical objects, people, and so on. The reason you can't see them is because seeing invisible things doesn't grant you the power to see through objects, so gods existing within physical objects (ie; ******* all of them) wouldn't be seen. They wouldn't be touched, either, for the same reasons; Can't touch a god inside a tree if you can't phase through the tree.
If you wanna bring up omnipresence as a debunk then PLEASE bother learning how their omnipresence even works lol
Also, again, not how omnipresence works. I don't think any character who has successfully interacted with an omnipresent being has ever shown that "bumping into omnipresent entities constantly" thing.
Jesus Christ you cannot be serious. A "name" in Touhou is not so ******* simple. As explained by Rinnosuke, there are two kinds of names; Those describing an object, and those that define an object. The latter name is the kind that gods gave to everything in reality, defining everything as a singular "thing" and determining its characteristics. The former is just to describe the characteristics determined by the latter, such as color, size, etc. Junko's name is literally "pure fox", detailing how she's purified herself, and her aura resembles fox tails; This "name" does not determine what her characteristics are, but rather describes what they are.
So Junko has a title; A word that doesn't really define anything about her. But what about a name as a concept? We can pretty ******* clearly see that Junko lacks that, as WoG straight up confirms it. Another example is how embodying a divine spirit (which is what Junko is) requires lacking a name. Not much to say here, pretty clear cut. Finally, if you wanna use titles? That's fine, because Junko's title, while blank in the game, is elaborated on in the omake.txt to mean Existence Without Name. WOW I WONDER WHAT THAT'S REFERRING TO, GUESS WE'LL NEVER KNOW
Oh, and tell me, are Izanagi Objects lacking names no longer a thing? Because that's pretty clearly what's described, even though they're called Izanagi Objects. Just step back and think how little ******* sense this makes with what reliable sources have repeated numerous times.
TL;DR: Yes Junko lacks a name (concept), even if she has a name (title). Touhou makes very clear distinctions between the two. Even if it didn't, the textual evidence in favor of Junko lacking a name far outweighs her going "hi my name is Junko" one ******* time.
Don't make me waste my ******* time on this shit again. Staying up until 4 in the morning to explain shit that should've been apparent years ago when I have more important shit to do makes me wanna blow my ******* brains out. I have life to attend to, shockingly. Hopefully other supporters can take my place while I'm doing literally anything but this.
TL;DR: This is a vast oversimplification of concepts explained numerous times throughout the series. As usual, Saikou, you would rather trust a lone statement that has been upheld as truth for years without question, rather than admit that the dozens of scans to the contrary may actually have a point.
