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Removal of Wario/DK's Keys

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Antvasima said:
Would this be an acceptable compromise for the rest of you? To simply call the two keys "Donkey Kong Games" and "Mario Games" or somesuch?

Matthew has a very good point that the DK Crew have never been portrayed at anywhere near a peak Mario level within their own games, due to their creators not caring about consistency or scaling.

It may not exactly be a crossover when Mario and Donkey Kong interact, but the same principle largely applies.
Click to expand...
Since Medeus and Matthew seem to agree with this approach, it seems best to apply it soon.
 
Can somebody list all of the staff members who commented in this thread earlier, so I can send notifications to them please?
 
Antvasima said:
Would this be an acceptable compromise for the rest of you? To simply call the two keys "Donkey Kong Games" and "Mario Games" or somesuch?

Matthew has a very good point that the DK Crew have never been portrayed at anywhere near a peak Mario level within their own games, due to their creators not caring about consistency or scaling.

It may not exactly be a crossover when Mario and Donkey Kong interact, but the same principle largely applies.
Click to expand...
@DarkDragonMedeus @Dino_Ranger_Black @Ryukama

What do you think about this solution?
 
I'd prefer input from Dino and possibly Ryu, but I'm going to be neutral on either having the keys renamed to Donkey Kong and Mario Bros; which Donkey Kong and Mario are clearly the same continuity. It's funny how DK is seemingly stronger as a baby than he is as a full grown ape. Perhaps I'll compromise the two examples.
  • Option 1: Keep the Keys as Donkey Kong | Mario Bros. This will be for Donkey Kong and Diddy Kong. The stronger DK characters such as K. Rool, Chunky, Funky, and Kiddy will be 6-B scaling from DK. Where as the weaker Kongs such as Dixie, Tiny, Lanky, ect are Low 6-B scaling from Diddy. DK and Diddy are Tier 4 and Massively FTL+ in their Mario keys
  • Option 2: Merge them with the At least, possibly in mind. DK, K Rool, Funky, Chunky are At least 6-B, likely 4-A. Diddy Kong and Dixie Kong are At least Low 6-B, possibly 4-A. Lanky and Tiny only scale to the low ends however since they never really fight the big bosses on equal grounds but gameplay makes them more or less comparable to Diddy.
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
mplyI'd prefer input from Dino and possibly Ryu, but I'm going to be neutral on either having the keys renamed to Donkey Kong and Mario Bros; which Donkey Kong and Mario are clearly the same continuity. It's funny how DK is seemingly stronger as a baby than he is as a full grown ape. Perhaps I'll compromise the two examples.
  • Option 1: Keep the Keys as Donkey Kong | Mario Bros. This will be for Donkey Kong and Diddy Kong. The stronger DK characters such as K. Rool, Chunky, Funky, and Kiddy will be 6-B scaling from DK. Where as the weaker Kongs such as Dixie, Tiny, Lanky, ect are Low 6-B scaling from Diddy. DK and Diddy are Tier 4 and Massively FTL+ in their Mario keys
  • Option 2: Merge them with the At least, possibly in mind. DK, K Rool, Funky, Chunky are At least 6-B, likely 4-A. Diddy Kong and Dixie Kong are At least Low 6-B, possibly 4-A. Lanky and Tiny only scale to the low ends however since they never really fight the big bosses on equal grounds but gameplay makes them more or less comparable to Diddy.
Click to expand...
Simply making them 4-A is the third option, and it's the one most people agree with.
 
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Yeah but that is after a major change for the character, that doesn’t exist here.
DK is just DK with no real change in power.
 
DatOneWeeb said:
I don't know why Matt has the need to say we're "pretending" "lying" "dishonest".
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It is indeed to be dishonest to say with a straight face that because DK and Diddy fought Mario in some DS games that you can retroactively scale the entire Donkey Kong Country cast to feats done by Mario's enemies in completely unrelated games.
 
I don't remember him saying that about people in a literal manner, just about that the profiles would be misleading.
 
Misleading profiles do indeed lie to people by presenting inconsistent evidence as factual. I say this first hand as someone guilty of lying about verses I liked in the past.
 
Matthew_Schroeder said:
It is indeed to be dishonest to say with a straight face that because DK and Diddy fought Mario in some DS games that you can retroactively scale the entire Donkey Kong Country cast to feats done by Mario's enemies in completely unrelated games.
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Well, the information would be misleading. That does not mean that the others here are deliberately lying.
 
If they are all canon to each other.. why does it matter what game each feat was in? That isn’t misleading unless you can prove the two games to be in different canons.
DK fights Mario in game A, the same Mario fights the guy with that feat in game B.
What is misleading about that?
By your logic we should make a different scale for every series of comics, or every spin-off series.
 
The DK games have never presented the characters there as anywhere near so powerful. We should be honest about that to our visitors.
 
So? Many Mario games lack any tier 4 feats? It is still the same character and DK consistently scales to him. The lower feats are mostly casual anyway.
We don’t make a separate key for the earlier games because they are the same canon.
We would not make a different key for any comic author who portrays a character with stats different from us, because it’s the same character in the same canon.
Why would this be different?
 
00potato said:
So? Many Mario games lack any tier 4 feats? It is still the same character and DK consistently scales to him. The lower feats are mostly casual anyway.
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I will say this: Trying to defend Tier 4 Donkey Kong by arguing that Mario isn't Tier 4 most of the time either isn't an argument in favor of Donkey Kong, it's actually the opposite.
 
00potato said:
We would not make a different key for any comic author who portrays a character with stats different from us, because it’s the same character in the same canon.
Click to expand...
Also not for "every" comic author, no, but there are several cases where characters have different portrayals across eras in Marvel and DC and we reflect that.

Drax the Destroyer from Marvel is a blatant example of a character who was never retconned but whose power was severely reduced over time simply due to portrayals.
 
Matthew_Schroeder said:
I will say this: Trying to defend Tier 4 Donkey Kong by arguing that Mario isn't Tier 4 most of the time either isn't an argument in favor of Donkey Kong, it's actually the opposite.
Click to expand...


No it doesn’t.
Same character, same tier 4 feats, same canon, no evidence of a power jump. Nothing about that needs different keys or such.
Matthew_Schroeder said:
Also not for "every" comic author, no, but there are several cases where characters have different portrayals across eras in Marvel and DC and we reflect that.

Drax the Destroyer from Marvel is a blatant example of a character who was never retconned but whose power was severely reduced over time simply due to portrayals.
Click to expand...
Those are for two completely different time periods from a real-world perspective and the character isn’t exactly the same across both eras, so comparing him to DK is extremely dishonest.
DKC is pretty much the same character in DKC and Mario, as opposed to your example, who is barely same (different design, different abilities, etc.)
 
00potato said:
No it doesn’t.
Same character, same tier 4 feats, same canon, no evidence of a power jump. Nothing about that needs different keys or such.
Click to expand...
"This character isn't consistently Tier 4 either so it's okay to upgrade both" just makes you seem sus man.

You're basically admitting to wanking.

00potato said:
Those are for two completely different time periods from a real-world perspective and the character isn’t exactly the same across both eras, so comparing him to DK is extremely dishonest.
Click to expand...
Two completely different periods.
Click to expand...

And Original DK Game from 1981 vs DK Games from the 90s vs Crossover Game from 2008 ISN'T? There's actually a larger gap for Donkey Kong then for Marvel's Drax.
 
Antvasima said:
The DK games have never presented the characters there as anywhere near so powerful. We should be honest about that to our visitors.
Click to expand...
Ok, and so? Mega Man 11 didn't have any planet feats. Let's downgrade Rock to wall level! DK is canon to Mario, as proved by Yoshi's Island and Mario Odyssey. DK fought Mario several times. Dividing DK into keys was a mistake in the first place, and we should correct this mistakes.
 
Matthew_Schroeder said:
"This character isn't consistently Tier 4 either so it's okay to upgrade both" just makes you seem sus man.

You're basically admitting to wanking.




And Original DK Game from 1981 vs DK Games from the 90s vs Crossover Game from 2008 ISN'T? There's actually a larger gap for Donkey Kong then for Marvel's Drax.
Click to expand...
No, how did you extrapolate all of that simple sentence? you disagree with tier 4 Mario get on a separate thread (we have one already.)
Even then that doesn’t change that the lower feats in DKC are casual.
There are tier 4 feats, not every game needs those feats to be canon or to be scaled to those feats since it is the same character. We don’t need constant repetition to know something is true.

Also the original DK has nothing to do with this? This is about DKC.
Also he still is the same character across DKC and the Mario games, not so much for Drax so again, not a good comparison.



Also, can’t we just add this now anyway?
Matt is the only opponent (So no notable opponents.)
DDM is fine with a likely 4-A, the rest are Neutral or in Agreement, most of those more knowledgeable on the scaling then Matt.
We don’t need to waste time just for one person with a reputation.
 
00potato said:
No, how did you extrapolate all of that simple sentence? you disagree with tier 4 Mario get on a separate thread (we have one already.)
Even then that doesn’t change that the lower feats in DKC are casual.
There are tier 4 feats, not every game needs those feats to be canon or to be scaled to those feats since it is the same character. We don’t need constant repetition to know something is true.

Also the original DK has nothing to do with this? This is about DKC.
Also he still is the same character across DKC and the Mario games, not so much for Drax so again, not a good comparison.



Also, can’t we just add this now anyway?
Matt is the only opponent (So no notable opponents.)
DDM is fine with a likely 4-A, the rest are Neutral or in Agreement, most of those more knowledgeable on the scaling then Matt.
We don’t need to waste time just for one person with a reputation.
Click to expand...
Yeah, right. Why should we have a compromise when Matt is the only opponent?
 
00potato said:
Also the original DK has nothing to do with this? This is about DKC.
Also he still is the same character across DKC and the Mario games, not so much for Drax so again, not a good comparison.
Click to expand...
Then tell Weeb to stop bringing it up as an argument. DKC has no feats on Mario's level so DK and Diddy Kong fighting Mario in a crossover game isn't good evidence for scaling across the board. It's that simple.
 
Matthew_Schroeder said:
Then tell Weeb to stop bringing it up as an argument. DKC has no feats on Mario's level so DK and Diddy Kong fighting Mario in a crossover game isn't good evidence for scaling across the board. It's that simple.
Click to expand...
You keep dishonestly mentioning some "crossover". It's not a crossover, they're the same franchise.
 
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