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Super Mario Series Revision (Well, more of downgrade)

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It's not an insult, it is a statement. Despite the fact that you are actually fighting off statements supported by multiple people, (which is respectable I'll give you that) you are fighting against logic.
Tell me, how many times in fiction do we see the logic that something powered up, let's say, by the energy of the sun, don't use that power and instead do minor feats. What is the point of it all if they're gonna do minor feats only? Not to mention I'm pretty sure that half the time Mario exhausts the opponents which means they are out of energy, meaning they used it, but don't quote me on that, my memory can be foggy about mario games.
 
Arceus0x said:
Tell me, how many times in fiction do we see the logic that something powered up, let's say, by the energy of the sun, don't use that power and instead do minor feats. What is the point of it all if they're gonna do minor feats only?
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I’m not the creator of this purposed fiction, so I wouldn’t know, I’d only know it be flawed to say this character without statements and feats to back it up

in the end a amp’s a amp, fiction uses it all the time for various purposes, if a character absorbed the sun and one shot the main character it wouldn’t matter if he’s Star level or just superior to the main character, narratively it served it’s purpose


Arceus0x said:
Not to mention I'm pretty sure that half the time Mario exhausts the opponents which means they are out of energy, meaning they used it, but don't quote me on that, my memory can be foggy about mario games.
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If I had the same amount of energy as the Sun inside me but I was as durable as a human and I was slammed on the head and stabbed, I’d probably not be feeling well for a while
 
Pretty sure that just the capability of containing the energy of a star within yourself means you are WAY more durable than a human. A human turns half to ashes from a surge of electricity, do you really think someone with even city level durability would be enough to contain the energy of something that effortlessly exudes high 6-C to high 6-A bursts like it's nothing?
 
Quick refresher, why do Power Stars creation feats scale to their AP?
 
Arceus0x said:
Pretty sure that just the capability of containing the energy of a star within yourself means you are WAY more durable than a human. A human turns half to ashes from a surge of electricity, do you really think someone with even city level durability would be enough to contain the energy of something that effortlessly exudes high 6-C to high 6-A bursts like it's nothing?
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Depends, for a magical item like the Power Star your more or less tapping into the energy like a separate reserve (I mean, we can even see that the Power Star come out of defeated enemies clearly still with energy so they didn’t use all of it), kinda like a Sink, your sink can’t hold an entire towns water supply and specially not blast it all at once, but it can spew that water over time, and if someone clogged the pipe the Sink would be broken

plus, not like fiction really beholds to such standards as the body not being physically possible to do something without X, else no FTL characters would even exist
 
The megabug (was that the name?) mentioned above completely drained a power star. He absorbed it's energy. This disproves that they are using it from a separate reserve
 
Arceus0x said:
The megabug (was that the name?) mentioned above completely drained a power star. He absorbed it's energy. This disproves that they are using it from a separate reserve
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MegaLeg

a Machine, not Organic, my wording of a “separate reserve” is to speak about humans in particular to factor in such things like the heart, for a machine my Sink example is… basically how all machines use power, when a machine is plugged in they all drain town/city level energy but only tap into a small amount of it and use it overtime
 
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It still doesn't mean that it could contain the energy of a star, it literally absorbed pure energy into itself, you need to be durable enough to actually hold that energy.

Your analogy is wrong. Your sink takes water from a specific area/a water tower or reservoir that holds that water. Water towers are specifically designed to hold the weight of the water and the same goes for reservoirs and such. Your sink takes water from a flow in a pipe made specifically to carry and resist the water pressure, and your sink takes a bit of it.
In our case, the character would be the sink, but it would take the water of an entire reservoir all at the same time which would make it burst open.

Next is your machine energy example. Yet again, they are plugged in. MegaLeg absorbed the energy of a power star in its entirety into himself, he didn't plug a plug into it and started eating it's power bit by bit. Machines have specific cables with specific sockets that are yet again, specifically meant to absorb a certain amount of electricity from a cable specifically made to be attached to specifically made machines in an electric station in which those machines are specifically used to distribute electricity in a certain way all around a town or city. Those elctric stations are specifically made to withstand and distribute and not melt whilst distributing the electricity produced.
All those cables have completley different resistance and sockets have different volatges.

In our example it would be like plugging one of those giant underground cables coming directly from an electric station into an average microwave. You know what would happen? The microwave would melt, at least the wires. You know what will happen if we use an average cable? The cable would melt.

Overall, unless you can prove that the power stars whose energy the machines and characters directly absorb energy from are actually in some other dimension or in their pocket or something and they carefully absorb some duodecillionth of energy from these power stars to use in combat, your argument doesn't hold.
 
Arceus0x said:
It still doesn't mean that it could contain the energy of a star, it literally absorbed pure energy into itself, you need to be durable enough to actually hold that energy.

In our case, the character would be the sink, but it would take the water of an entire reservoir all at the same time which would make it burst open.


In our example it would be like plugging one of those giant underground cables coming directly from an electric station into an average microwave. You know what would happen? The microwave would melt, at least the wires. You know what will happen if we use an average cable? The cable would melt.
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you see this is the problem, you say these machines used all that energy at once but have no proof, the only pointer is that MegaLeg instantly booted up in his Boss fight, which isn’t true, you can visually see that it’s turned on before Mario even enters Bowser Jr’s Robo Reactor

image0.jpg

image1.jpg
 
Foxthefox1000 said:
Oh okay.

Feats That Require More Discussion

Bye Bye Cannon - the feat potentially has a big issue in that at the speeds they were launched and crossed the horizon, it should've taken longer for them to appear from the other side of the screen if they truly "travelled the world" which lends credence to the idea it's just a screen transition gag like the one Bowser pulled on the Koopa Cruiser and they didn't actually travel the entire circumference of the Earth. There's also the fact the "planet" they travel across can be traversed in chase sequences too, which can have circular arenas you can use the Bye-Bye Cannon in and you can traverse them or use the Cannon while within castles that shouldn't even be spherical nor a planet like the calc assumes. Could just be part of the battle system.

Possibly DK Moon Punch - Dependent on if certain scenarios play out like accepting DK as part of Mario again and trying to upgrade Dark Bowser's feat because of the scale of the Mushroom Kingdom in Odyssey where it was at it's biggest and is even more inconsistent in size than the Moon that DK punched since the Moon has almost always been treated like our real-life moon in Mario.

Power Stars creating realms - The "stars" Wiggler claims to see aren't provably true stars. It isn't an astrologer so we can't claim it to be a reliable source. The fact these are worlds in paintings as well makes the nature of these stars even more questionable. We'd need more proof.

Mario Party 4 Star Feat - Unclear if the "Stars" in Mario Party are Power Stars, and even if they were, the entire game takes place inside the Party Cube, which we have no way of knowing if those stars the Star manipulated are even actual stars.

Raphael - While I don't agree, people seem to think it's invalid as a gag feat and also that it's for some reason some self-destruction unique to Raphael rather than anything scalable.

Pretty much any black hole feat

Stadium Explosion - The stadium wasn't even damaged and the characters are only slightly harmed or dazed. The damage should've been far worse for what the blast radius showed. Also, members of the fodder audience also tanked it.

Dark Bowser's hurricane - Unknown if it scales to physicals as it was just a passive storm it whipped up and I don't believe there's proof it can control it either or weaponize it. His actual magic is much different in behavior. Related to Dark Bowser, the Dark Star dissipating the clouds was just an actual case of self-destruction and doesn't scale to anyone.

Other storm feats would need proof they scale to physicals or use a similar source to that of a person's other attacks

Moon Cannon - The timeframe is assumed based on the average person's ability to hold their breath, but we've seen many times that Mario's breath control in inconsistent, sometimes even being infinite -- kind of why we have "Underwater Breathing" listed under his profile. So this assumption should not be used, and thusly, we have no actual timeframe for the feat. It could've taken anywhere from as long as seconds to multiple minutes, a range that indeed changes results signifcantly.

Castle Punt - If Raphael is a gag, then this is a very clear example of one. Also can be argued the castle's size is inconsistent, making it range from 8-C at the lowest to as high as Low 7-C. We should discuss which is more appropriate.

King Olly folding the world - Just needs more discussion in general. In a previous thread it was proven Olly's ability can translate to AP and the proposed tier for him got rejected because "world" coulf simply refer to the planet, which is exactly what I would propose.

Shadow Queen Statement - While yes, most statements of "destroy the world" are vague and can merely refer to surface wiping, rarely have I seen cases where it's specified the ENTIRE WORLD in all caps like that is in danger of being destroyed. It's also in clear contrast to the characters stating they would just rule or conquer the world beforehand. It seems pretty clear it's physical too, but I'll save it for that discussion.

The Fan Thing Card from Color Splash rotating the planet - This just needs a calc, really.

Kamek Casting a Storm to Flood the Planet - Just needs a calc or for us to decide which tier it fits in.

Mecha-Bowser in Toy Time Galaxy getting pulverized - Just needs a calc

Megaleg's Self-Destruction - Only possibly scalable but it needs a calc before that can happen

Completely Rejected/Unusable Feats

Kamek's Tornado - Flawed Mapscaling. We later find out it warped/corrupted the area inside the tornado and may have just been a fancy magical reality warp barrier. Wouldn't support a Tier high than 8 anyways given the castle is consistently just a regular castle in size.

Bowser almost dying to a castle

There's likely WAAYYY more but this is all that was in the thread I believe.
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Thanks for summing it up. I think the black holes would need a separate thread entirely.

As for the current discussion about Power Stars, I am iffy on the power stars as a whole. But I think it is also better handled in its own thread. This thread isn't suited for long discussions anymore, so only smaller issues should be discussed or things will get out of track again.
 
Thank you for helping out Foxthefox1000 and Dust Collector.
 
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Dwarf Star. Neat. Only a single tier below and few numbers away from Tier 4, so a good supporting feat IMO.

Final bosses would likely upscale from the Thing Card as well, and we also have Olly and potentially Shadow Queen for supporting Tier 5 shit.

The MP9 feat would almost certainly be Dwarf Star as well for pulling in those planets and Bowser having created that vortex.

Lumas and Grand Star shit would at the absolute lowest be Tier 5 and 4
 
That is neither, since it never refers to a time frame or performing the action in a single attack
 
Foxthefox1000 said:
Dwarf Star. Neat. Only a single tier below and few numbers away from Tier 4, so a good supporting feat IMO.
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Not really, the issue is that because of Mario and his opponents Size and position, they’d absolutely not take the full force of the Fans Blast, how to calculate that seems near impossible
 
DragonLord said:
Not really, the issue is that because of Mario and his opponents Size and position, they’d absolutely not take the full force of the Fans Blast, how to calculate that seems near impossible
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It's not near impossible, but damn is it difficult. Biggest issue is trying to figure out how much lighter/weaker the wind from the fan would be by the time it hits Mario and his opponents.
 
Unknown is unneeded, in the end Mario is absolutely at least 9-A/8-C even if you can’t find any higher feats, all the games are filled with Mario breaking Bricks casually
 
I would also prefer a variable tier to an unknown one.
 
I do not agree with a variable tier; while it's better than Unknown. I will also note that "At least, Possibly" aren't quite the same thing as variables. But anyway, I have to be working today, so cannot write long posts but still read previous posts in detail and still agree with Foxthefox for the most part.
 
"At least ..., possibly ..." is probably a better option, yes.
 
We should save the major stuff to their own threads (Like the black hole feats), and discuss the Moon punch in DK, specifically why it is/isn't Moon sized
 
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