Removal of SCP-871 and other similar pages

[Wokistan]

Please don't quote walls of text, it can lag phones and weaker computers.

 

[Wokistan]

Black holes also aren't 3-A.

If you don't like the time travel thing, you can go with how we don't give everyone FTL High 3-A AP.

 

[DnW0]

1. No, black holes don't move by themselves, they can't change their own speed. Black holes are Unknown.
2. There's almost as much proof that FTL speeds grant time travel as there is that compressed mass creates a black hole. But maybe that wasn't the best comparison. Reality warping doesn't give you every hax even though it should logically give that, it only has uses that it's demonstrated. Since the cake hasn't demonstrated or even implied turning into a black hole, it shouldn't get that.

http://chandra.harvard.edu/blog/node/326

 

[DnW0]

Black holes also aren't 3-A.
If you don't like the time travel thing, you can go with how we don't give everyone FTL High 3-A AP.

The duplicating cakes will create a tier 3 black hole via overtaking an entire universe with cakes

The reason you don't do that is that if you were to give AP based on speed you will have to sort and discern movement speed vs reaction speed on every single profile. Also even if an object were to accelerate from 0 m/s to FTL it would need to have a mass of 2.825 TenaexaFoe+ / 300000000 * distance to be 3-A

 

[Agnaa]

http://chandra.harvard.edu/blog/node/326

As you can tell from that article, it's about a black hole retaining its speed from its component parts.

You don't say that a human's FTL because they sat in an FTL spaceship.

The reason you don't do that is that if you were to give AP based on speed you will have to sort and discern movement speed vs reaction speed on every single profile. Also even if an object were to accelerate from 0 m/s to FTL it would need to have a mass of 2.825 TenaexaFoe+ / 300000000 * distance to be 3-A

Actually, accelerating from 0 m/s to SoL requires infinite energy, so any mass would be High 3-A.

You seem to be seriously misunderstanding the science at play here.

 

[Bobsican]

Nah, FTL IRL is at least 4-B

 

[DnW0]

Actually, accelerating from 0 m/s to SoL requires infinite energy, so any mass would be High 3-A.

You seem to be seriously misunderstanding the science at play here.

1. What are you talking about with: "seriously misunderstanding the science at play here" when your time travel shenanigans has nothing to do with SCP-871 being deleted. Also you haven't responded to how a sword doesn't have AP according to your logic, so all sword profiles here should be deleted. Also where is your proof that there is "more proof of FTL time travel" than black holes. Also, a bomb sitting on the ground will not output any energy unless energy is applied to it. So going by your logic, the cakes DO have an AP if you just apply energy to it and your argument of CakegotnoAP is invalid.

2. How does requiring infinite energy mean that any mass would be High 3-A? I never said anything about how much energy it requires to move at the speed of light, I just gave you a value for how massive an object would have to be to reach High 3-A by force at the speed of light. And going by your logic, light with basically 0 mass is High 3-A and Admiral Kizaru should be upgraded to High 3-A because he's a living lump of light.

 

[Agnaa]

The time travel shenangians is an example of how we don't use real world physics to give characters powers that the science would give them, but which they never actually show.

A sword has AP because sometimes they're used to give more AP than the wielder demonstrates otherwise. So it's the destruction that the sword can do when used.

Also where is your proof that there is "more proof of FTL time travel" than black holes.

I said there's "almost as much" because both have only been demonstrably shown using current scientific theories, and have never been directly experimented on in a lab.

Also, a bomb sitting on the ground will not output any energy unless energy is applied to it. So going by your logic, the cakes DO have an AP if you just apply energy to it and your argument of CakegotnoAP is invalid.

Bombs have AP when detonated. Pages don't need to be spouting off that AP constantly, they can have that AP under certain circumstances, and bombs have them when detonated.

How does requiring infinite energy mean that any mass would be High 3-A?

Because no matter how little mass it is, incredibly small number x infinity is still infinity, and therefore High 3-A.

I never said anything about how much energy it requires to move at the speed of light, I just gave you a value for how massive an object would have to be to reach High 3-A by force at the speed of light.

And that number's wrong because any mass would be High 3-A at the speed of light.

And going by your logic, light with basically 0 mass is High 3-A and Admiral Kizaru should be upgraded to High 3-A because he's a living lump of light.

For the first part, no because light is massless. For the second part, no because that's exactly what I'm arguing against, SoL characters shouldn't be tiered because in the real world they'd be High 3-A.

 

[SomebodyData]

We've deleted profiles that have more going for them (like literally a lot of non-canon profiles) not sure why it's still here.

Though overall, I'm neutral but towards deletion. But if the cake gets a profile, we'd should be allowed to add basically anything to the site at that point.

 

[DnW0]

1. requiring infinite energy doesn't mean infinite energy output.

2. You said that ANY mass would be High 3-A in the real world, which includes things of 0 mass which is light, which is clearly not High 3-A. so you are contradicting yourself

3. F = ma. The amount of force from a FTL object isn't mass x infinity because lightspeed isn't infinite acceleration and was never infinite acceleration even in terms of physics. Going by your logic, laser beams in the real world are all High 3-A which means that every human that got laser surgery has High 3-A durability... nice...

4. A Low 2-C character with an iron sword isn't going to have an increase in AP the same way in which punching someone with a sponge isn't higher AP than a bare fist. Why? because sharp metal sticks don't have statistics amplification. And if you're going to be stubborn and stay with that logic, then a cake can be used to increase the user's AP even if it's a very slight increase.

5. I'm going to repeat your claim of "any mass would be High 3-A at the speed of light" and show you that there is a darn equation called "E = mc^2" that doesn't show anything regarding "Universal+ AP" because fyi, c isn't infinity. If you want to challenge that equation, then go talk to Albert Einstein in his grave and get over it.

 

[Agnaa]

1. Being able to move at SoL requires infinite energy output.

2. High 3-A only applies to things with mass. I was unclear with my wording, my bad. Anything with mass is High 3-A if it moves at the speed of light, no matter how small that mass is.

3. a) "F = ma" is not why SoL requires infinite energy. This equation is.

3. b) How is that going by my logic? Lasers don't have mass.

4. The iron sword shouldn't be able to withstand that Low 2-C force. Weapons in fiction are different from those in real life, and in fiction weapons themselves are capable of cleaving mountains no matter whose hands they're in.

5. E = mc^2 is relating the mass of an object to its energy, it has nothing to do with something's speed. You have no idea what you're talking about. The energy of massless objects is described with the equation e = hf.

 

[DnW0]

1. Being able to move at SoL requires infinite energy output.

show proof because an object doesn't "output energy" to move

2. If you don't want to make yourself look janky, don't use garbo wording.

3. I wasn't even using F=ma for that.


4. show proof, because that's clearly not true or else all weapons would have tier 0 infinite durability going by your logic.


5. You're making garbo up... https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/einstein/lrk-hand-emc2expl.html. stop acting like you can define everything in physics however you want it to be. Also E = hf still doesn't imply anything about High 3-A garbage, do you even know what the equation means? it's energy = (6.63 × 10-34)(frequency). where in the hell do you get infinity out of that.

4. If you don't have any regards on why SCP-871 should be removed or not, then what are you doing? Because your calling of "you don't know anything blah blah" doesn't mean anything to your r/Imverysmart as long as the profile stays. Especially since speed of light and "technicallyscp871isntacharacter" are two completely different things and are scaled totally differently. So maybe you shall hush before you start saying "Everybody have no idea what they be talking about."

 

[Agnaa]

1. Energy is transferred to change the velocity of an object. To change the velocity of an object to the speed of light you need to transfer infinite energy.

2. Sorry I thought me explicitly saying "Things with 0 mass don't have infinite energy" was clear enough.

3. Yes you were, that is exactly what you did. To quote you directly:

F = ma The amount of force from a FTL object isn't mass x infinity because lightspeed isn't infinite acceleration and was never infinite acceleration even in terms of physics.

You were using F=ma there, and it was wrong.

4. Show proof of what exactly? Why would all weapons have tier 0 durability by my logic?

5. a) Wow, I'd heard completely different reasons for why light's there my entire life, I'd never heard that explanation before, but I'm not a physicist so I'll just have to say that I don't know what's correct for that. However, E = mc^2 by itself is the equation when disregarding velocity, when velocity's included and increased towards the speed of light, the energy becomes infinite.

Also E = hf still doesn't imply anything about High 3-A garbage, do you even know what the equation means? it's energy = (6.63 × 10-34)(frequency). where in the hell do you get infinity out of that.

Exactly, you finally get it. E = hf is what you use for massless objects, and it never reaches infinity, which is why massless objects don't have infinite energy even though they move at the speed of light.

If you don't have any regards on why SCP-871 should be removed or not, then what are you doing?

I don't know what this means? I've already given my reasons on why SCP-871 should be removed; all that SCP-871, SCP-458, and Theoretical Mall have are durabilities, names, and a few powers, making them not notable enough for the wiki. Their AP, intelligence, stamina, range, and speed are all just nothing.

 

[DnW0]

If you don't have any regards on why SCP-871 should be removed or not, then what are you doing?

I don't know what this means? I've already given my reasons on why SCP-871 should be removed; all that SCP-871, SCP-458, and Theoretical Mall have are durabilities, names, and a few powers, making them not notable enough for the wiki. Their AP, intelligence, stamina, range, and speed are all just nothing.

Swords, bombs, and other non-sentient and non-automatic weapons all don't have their own AP either. Intelligence is not neede for a profile, stamina for SCP-871 is infinite, range for SCP-871 is standard melee range since cakes can only spawn near other cakes, speed can be immobile and there is nothing wrong with that.

 

[DMB_1]

Swords, bombs, and other non-sentient and non-automatic weapons all don't have their own AP either.

They can, however, be actually used as weapons by their users.

The cake, the pizza and the mall are just "things" (well, the mall technically isn't even a "thing" in-universe, but still).

 

[DnW0]

They can, however, be actually used as weapons by their users.

The cake, the pizza and the mall are just "things" (well, the mall technically isn't even a "thing" in-universe, but still).

An edged metal stick attached to another metal rod called a "sword" is also a "thing", what do you have to say about that? If humanity had a history of using cakes as weapons then you would be calling bombs "things" too.

Also what gives about funny people like Big Mom pirates crewmembers like Perospero using candy as weapons

 

[DMB_1]

Those are actual weapons and that can be used as weapons, as their existence and purpose are to fight/harm others.

We don't have a profile for a wooden chair or a metal bar because they can technically be used as weapons in some situations.

 

[DnW0]

Those are actual weapons and that can be used as weapons, as their existence and purpose are to fight/harm others.

We don't have a profile for a wooden chair or a metal bar because they can technically be used as weapons in some situations.

Yes we have profiles for metal bars, they just happen to be quite sharp and are called "swords" and "maces". Some can also shoot shorter metal bars and are called "guns".

Also you have profiles like Jumanji which was not created to harm people nor act as a weapon.

The cake can totally be used as a weapon, don't see why it can't be when it can duplicate infinitely and potentially do more damage in an instant than any of your hilarious "defined weapons" can do.

Also, there is no definition on this wiki for what classifies as an "actual weapon" because this is a website for FICTIONAL entities. Your opinion on what is an "actual weapon" is just subjective ad hominem

 

[DnW0]

Yes we have profiles for metal bars, they just happen to be quite sharp and are called "swords" and "maces". Some can also shoot shorter metal bars and are called "guns".

Also you have profiles like Jumanji which was not created to harm people nor act as a weapon or something funny like Ariadne's Thread which is essentially a tier 1 "good luck charm".

The cake can totally be used as a weapon, don't see why it can't be when it can duplicate infinitely and potentially do more damage in an instant than any of your hilarious "defined weapons" can do.

Also, there is no definition on this wiki for what classifies as an "actual weapon" because this is a website for FICTIONAL entities. Your opinion on what is an "actual weapon" is just subjective ad hominem

 

[DnW0]

Yes we have profiles for metal bars, they just happen to be quite sharp and are called "swords" and "maces". Some can also shoot shorter metal bars and are called "guns".

Also you have profiles like Jumanji which was not created to harm people nor act as a weapon or something funny like Ariadne's Thread which is essentially a tier 1 "good luck charm".

The cake can totally be used as a weapon, don't see why it can't be when it can duplicate infinitely and potentially do more damage in an instant than any of your hilarious "defined weapons" can do. That also doesn't dodge the fact that the SCP can act as an infinite supply of projectiles that a person can totally hurl at opponents regardless of how goofy it may be.

Also, there is no definition on this wiki for what classifies as an "actual weapon" because this is a website for FICTIONAL entities. Your opinion on what is an "actual weapon" is just subjective ad hominem

 

[DMB_1]

Jumanji's whole purpose is being a death trap to anyone who plays it and can summons several deadly beings and natural disasters.

The cake is just a cake that multiplies until it overpopulates the planet.

 

[DMB_1]

Cakes aren't mean to be used as weapons, and no one int eh SCP verse ver used 871 as one. The "infinite projectile" is just a consequence of its won multiplication. And doesn't it take like a day or so to multiply?

 

[PrettyFearMachine]

Delet the cake

 

[DnW0]

Jumanji's whole purpose is being a death trap to anyone who plays it and can summons several deadly beings and natural disasters.

The cake is just a cake that multiplies until it overpopulates the planet.

So? What's the difference? They're both "deadly weapons".

So what? Jumanji is even easier to evade because it won't do anything if nobody moves any pieces whereas the cake is a duplicating threat to the entire planet that will remain unstoppable if not tended to early.

None of this proves why the profile shouldn't exist

 

[DnW0]

Cakes aren't mean to be used as weapons, and no one int eh SCP verse ver used 871 as one. The "infinite projectile" is just a consequence of its won multiplication. And doesn't it take like a day or so to multiply?

Jumanji is also not meant to be used as a weapon, nor is Ariadne's Thread.

There is also nothing stopping a user from making a vsmatch in which SCP871 has prep time.

 

[Agnaa]

Swords, bombs, and other non-sentient and non-automatic weapons all don't have their own AP either. Intelligence is not neede for a profile, stamina for SCP-871 is infinite, range for SCP-871 is standard melee range since cakes can only spawn near other cakes, speed can be immobile and there is nothing wrong with that.

They do have their own AP. Ever notice how swords are 9-C even though the humans who wield them are 10-A?

Intelligence is not needed for a profile, but profiles need something of merit to be deserving of a profile on the wiki. That's why we don't have haxless 10-B thugs from extremely popular anime. However, if they were haxxed 7-B thugs from a game one person's played in a decade then they'd deserve a profile because they have noteworthy things to index.

Since the cake's only noteworthy things to index are two abilities and durability, and it has never fought or been used for fighting in-verse (this is important criteria too, and what separates weapon profiles from giving a page for every single object in every single verse), it's not noteworthy enough for the wiki.

 

[DnW0]

They do have their own AP. Ever notice how swords are 9-C even though the humans who wield them are 10-A?

Intelligence is not needed for a profile, but profiles need something of merit to be deserving of a profile on the wiki. That's why we don't have haxless 10-B thugs from extremely popular anime. However, if they were haxxed 7-B thugs from a game one person's played in a decade then they'd deserve a profile because they have noteworthy things to index.

Since the cake's only noteworthy things to index are two abilities and durability, and it has never fought or been used for fighting in-verse (this is important criteria too, and what separates weapon profiles from giving a page for every single object in every single verse), it's not noteworthy enough for the wiki.

But swords aren't 9-C without wielders lol. If you say the sword has its own AP, then the cake also has its own AP because they are both objects that a person can hold and attack with, a 2-C person using a puny sword isn't going to be 9-C which means that the darn swords don't have their own special AP other than being a 10-C motionless sharp rod of metal.

How many times do I have to tell you that Jumanji and Ariadne's Thread are also two examples of objects that have profiles yet haven't been used for fighting. Also there is a clear difference between random objects and SCP-871 which is that the SCP can ACT while rocks don't have any abilities. If you're going to ignore that point then I'm going to tell you that your loving real world "swords" have no abilities at all so they should all be removed from the wiki for being even less noteworthy than the SCP.

Even bombs only have "explosion manipulation" so why should they exist going by your logic.

 

[Agnaa]

But swords aren't 9-C without wielders lol.

Yes, but that AP's part of how swords work. A gun doesn't have AP when it's not used, but when it's used it has a certai AP.

a 2-C person using a puny sword isn't going to be 9-C

Yeah, the sword would break, then it won't be any tier.

How many times do I have to tell you that Jumanji and Ariadne's Thread are also two examples of objects that have profiles yet haven't been used for fighting.

Because the criteria's not just "if you've never been used for fighting you don't get a profile", it's an indicator that leans towards not having a profile, and when enough of those indicators are together it doesn't get a profile. Both of those profiles have lots of powers and abilities, and a notable tier. SCP-871, SCP-458, and Theoretical Mall lack those.

If you're going to ignore that point then I'm going to tell you that your loving real world "swords" have no abilities at all so they should all be removed from the wiki for being even less noteworthy than the SCP.

We don't have profiles for random 10-A swords from media with zero abilities. The reason we have them from real life is so that they're a reference for whenever a fiction has a sword like that. If some action movie has a katana, we know how strong that is, and can link to the real world katana profile as a reference.

Even bombs only have "explosion manipulation" so why should they exist going by your logic.

Same thing, it's useful to have real world bombs as a comparison or reference for fictional ones, even though we wouldn't have a profile for every random bomb explosion in fiction.

 

[DnW0]

But swords aren't 9-C without wielders lol.

Yes, but that AP's part of how swords work. A gun doesn't have AP when it's not used, but when it's used it has a certai AP.

a 2-C person using a puny sword isn't going to be 9-C

Yeah, the sword would break, then it won't be any tier.

How many times do I have to tell you that Jumanji and Ariadne's Thread are also two examples of objects that have profiles yet haven't been used for fighting.

Because the criteria's not just "if you've never been used for fighting you don't get a profile", it's an indicator that leans towards not having a profile, and when enough of those indicators are together it doesn't get a profile. Both of those profiles have lots of powers and abilities, and a notable tier. SCP-871, SCP-458, and Theoretical Mall lack those.

If you're going to ignore that point then I'm going to tell you that your loving real world "swords" have no abilities at all so they should all be removed from the wiki for being even less noteworthy than the SCP.

We don't have profiles for random 10-A swords from media with zero abilities. The reason we have them from real life is so that they're a reference for whenever a fiction has a sword like that. If some action movie has a katana, we know how strong that is, and can link to the real world katana profile as a reference.

Even bombs only have "explosion manipulation" so why should they exist going by your logic.

Same thing, it's useful to have real world bombs as a comparison or reference for fictional ones, even though we wouldn't have a profile for every random bomb explosion in fiction.

So you just conceded your "weaponsap" argument... nice. You also still haven't proven the difference between an object and another object (because there isn't a difference and you conceded to that too).

Funny thing how you say that Jumanji has substantial power when SCP 871 has far more potential power than it will ever have. Nice contradiction. Also you have totally ignored the fact that your treasured real world weapon profiles have even less abilties than the SCP.

We don't have profiles for all 10-A swords with titles not because they aren't allowed, it's because nobody wants to make those boring profiles. same applies with bombs. None of this proves why SCP-871 shouldn't exist. There is also no rule that says "no weapons other than swords and bombs are allowed" so it doesn't prove why these boring profiles are allowed to exist while SCP-871 isn't allowed to exist as a weapon.

 

[Kaltias]

Calling 871 a weapon is just you playing with semantics, tbh.

Yeah, it can cause harm, in a completely random way, without exerting actual AP. Do my stairs deserve a profile because I slipped on them once and broke my left arm? That's how much you are playing semantics when saying that 871 is a weapon

The difference between this and a sword/bomb/gun/laser/bio weapon is ridiculously obvious.

Those exist purely to kill, they have absolutely no other purpose. 871 is a cake that duplicates once per day. The end. No one uses it as a weapon and it's obviously not meant to be one if you read its story.

 

[MrKingOfNegativity]

Can we put this to a vote so that this thread doesn't drag itself out any further? Plenty of arguments for both sides have been provided, and we've been going back and forth about this for weeks now.

 

[Kaltias]

Sure. I'm for the deletion

 

[MrKingOfNegativity]

Same.

I'll assume Weekly and DnW0 are against it.

 

[Agnaa]

I'm for the deletion.

So you just conceded your "weaponsap" argument... nice. You also still haven't proven the difference between an object and another object (because there isn't a difference and you conceded to that too).

Funny thing how you say that Jumanji has substantial power when SCP 871 has far more potential power than it will ever have. Nice contradiction. Also you have totally ignored the fact that your treasured real world weapon profiles have even less abilties than the SCP.

We don't have profiles for all 10-A swords with titles not because they aren't allowed, it's because nobody wants to make those boring profiles. same applies with bombs. None of this proves why SCP-871 shouldn't exist. There is also no rule that says "no weapons other than swords and bombs are allowed" so it doesn't prove why these boring profiles are allowed to exist while SCP-871 isn't allowed to exist as a weapon.

I don't know how I conceded the weapons ap argument? I said that they have a certain AP when used, and trying to use them for anything much higher would end up breaking them and hence not having the higher AP. I don't know what you mean by "the difference between an object and another object"?

How does 871 have more power than Jumanji could ever have? It doesn't have a tier since it never exerts AP or can be used to exert more AP.

I didn't ignore that real world profiles have less abilities than the SCP, they're allowed in spite of that because they're in the real world and can hence be used as a point of reference for things in fiction.

Profiles for 10-A swords would be removed. Profiles for random almost featless but named dudes from One Piece got deleted, because they had no abilities, almost no feats, and did almost nothing in the story. Profiles like this get put up for deletion all the time in the relevant thread.

 

[CinnabarManx421]

Count me for against.

 

[DMB_1]

I agree for deleting the profile(s).

 

[PrettyFearMachine]

I'm all for deletion.

 

[Paul_Frank]

I'm for deleting the pizza not the cake

 

[The_Smashor]

The pizza can go I guess but the Cake should stay.

 

[Yobo_Blue]

The pizza can go I guess but the Cake should stay.

^^^