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Relooking at Mario's stats: the sequel

Ryukama said:
I just finished 100%ing Super Mario Galaxy again. I just want to point out that literally nowhere is it ever said "the lumas that turn into Power Stars are more powerful than the ones that turn into galaxies."

Bowser used a shitload of Power Stars and Grand Stars to fuel a machine he tried using to create a galaxy, which then failed and became a supermassive black hole. So the stars do have a Tier 3 feat in that sense, but not the whole individual star scaling above galaxies thing that's been mentioned before.
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I mean, that one Luma did turn into a galaxy. And it makes no sense for Bowser to be weaker.
 
The whole reason why Bowser took so many Power Stars/Grand Stars was so he could build and fuel the reactor. I doubt Bowser only used one single Grand Star for the purpose when he went out of his way to take so many.

But either way that doesn't change the fact that this alleged scaling of a single Power Star to galaxy level Lumas isn't a thing. And Mario and Bowser's stats don't scale to the Grand Star or the Galaxy Reactor it fueled.
 
...you realize it was powered up from a single Grand Star the entire time, everyone else had their own. There's no him needing many, it was just one.

A single Luma can become a Galaxy, and it can become a single Power Star. That's about it.
 
Bowser had a massive amount of stars in his possession. Rosalina specifically says that the stars that you collect in the game are "the few remaining stars." Why would Bowser go out of his way to gather this many stars as well as all the other Grand Stars if only one was needed for his reactor the entire time? And why would it take 5-6 Grand Stars and 60 Power Stars just to power the Comet Observatory enough to fly to the center of the universe yet only take 1 Grand Star to power up the reactor and allow it to create new galaxies from scratch?

But fine for the sake of argument only 1 Grand Star is needed to power the reactor. This does not scale to Mario or Bowser's stats. And "A luma that turns into Power Stars are more powerful than lumas that turn into galaxies" is never once stated. You cannot scale based on a statement that literally does not exist.

Also lumas are not 3-C combatants. They do not throw Galaxy Level punches or have any offensive capabilities with Galaxy Level tons of TNT. They simply magically
transform into galaxies. And their special ability to turn into a galaxy is exclusive to them. (And to the specific lumas that turn into galaxies as opposed to planets or comets at that) If Bowser himself had the capability to create/transform into a galaxy on a whim, then the Galaxy Reactor serves literally zero purpose.
 
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@Matthew_Schroeder Yes but furthermore they're not even creating it in the sense that a regular 4-C character has now made a star and can do what they want with it. The lumas literally transform themselves into the celestial body permanently and irreversibly. Now they are forever an inanimate planet that cannot think or do anything on its own. It really does not serve any sort of purpose in combat. And again, no one else has this ability. So saying that Mario has 3-C punches based off of this is very fallacious.
 
Ryukama said:
@Matthew_Schroeder Yes but furthermore they're not even creating it in the sense that a regular 4-C character has now made a star and can do what they want with it. The lumas literally transform themselves into the celestial body permanently and irreversibly. Now they are forever an inanimate planet that cannot think or do anything on its own. And again, no one else has this ability.
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I obviously agree. Baby Lumas literally mature into stars and galaxies. It is not indication of their power.
 
Just pointing out that I don't care for 3-C, the only thing I do care is that Bowser used a single Grand Star. He wouldn't have given them out otherwise, he does so to let his minions have power. Much like in 64 where he did the same.
 
This might be random but, on here could we remove the Mario Party 9 black hole feat, I looked at it and it seems more like a transition than Bowser really creating a black hole
 
If it can be worthy of something, I still disagree with Brobot and King Boo's feat for the reasons I explained at the time, but I dropped them since the majority of people reached the conclusion to accept both feats. King Boo's feat also is the perfect definition of what's being discussed in the other thread, a weird otherwordly realm where space and everything is warped and distorted. And its creation (assuming it's really 4-A despite them fighting in a small space) scales to Luigi because he can take damage from lasers shot by the crown that made the place without dying, a type of scaling that is also being discussed, like the good example of the storms made by Ionlisite.
 
SamanPatou said:
If it can be worthy of something, I still disagree with Brobot and King Boo's feat for the reasons I explained at the time, but I dropped them since the majority of people reached the conclusion to accept both feats
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The Brobot discussion happened during my finals week so I couldn't participate heavily on it. :c
 
Well, my points were that is legit that King Boo created the arena in another dimension, but we have no evidences that he even created millions of stars on the way just for the pleasure of doing it, while fighting Luigi in a small ring by throwing furniture and spiky balls at him.
That place also was totally under Boo's control, who could manipulate and change the background, the colors, the lights, can create things out of nothing, morph the arena and warp space to send Luigi in corridors bigger than how they appear from outside.
And it supposed to scale because one of Boo's attacks is shooting an energy ball by the crown, that we assume has 4-A potency because the source is the same.
 
Personally, if I were to choose a 4-A feat, I'd prefer Brobot's one, which is at least confirmed to be in actual outer space, instead of King Boo's, which takes in account many more assumptions.

The scaling is also iffy, I agree that cutscenes have priority over gameplay, but the second can't be totally discarted to give legitimacy to a feat, i.e. Mario, the squid and the butterfree (I don't remember the names atm) being unscated by being at the epicenter of a 4-A explosion, ignoring every other minor thing in the game that can damage them, or assuming that everything is 4-A as well.

I know that I'm repeating myself, despite all of this having been rejected, I just wanted to explain my positions, I take no time to drop everything again if I have to (I'd like not to, but clogging up everything isn't a good idea)
 
SamanPatou said:
The scaling is also iffy, I agree that cutscenes have priority over gameplay, but the second can't be totally discarted to give legitimacy to a feat, i.e. Mario, the squid and the butterfree (I don't remember the names atm) being unscated by being at the epicenter of a 4-A explosion, ignoring every other minor thing in the game that can damage them, or assuming that everything is 4-A as well.
Click to expand...
Insert Explosion Durability Feats here.

Assuming that explosion = tanking the entire thing is an illogical fallacy that ignores basic science and conservation of energy.

It's impossible to tank an entire explosion or else there wouldn't be any explosion.

You can literally get Tier 6 results from surviving the big bang, so I'm always iffy when someone goes "Survived thing blowing up, scales to the explosion itself"
 
Medeus, who is totally more knowledgeable than me on this things, explained in a previous comment why the would scale to it. (I can't say if he was right or not, for the reasons I said)
 
I actually agree with that feat being legit for a few reasons I can go over if asked, but, at the very least, apply inverse square law to it. Saying it's the full result is dishonest, even if it's still within the same ballpark, if it isnt full yield, dont treat it as such.
 
If the explosion is only a few meters in diameter how does it destroy the dimension?
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That is quite literally not what was said by anyone, not even DDM.
 
I want to point out that we are not sure if that is another dimension.
It resembles actual outer space in appearance, but Mr. L also wanted to use the absence of gravity to better use Brobot and Mario needs the helmet to "breath". During the fight you can also see chocolate bars floating around, the same you find in world 4 (which isn't much different from there).
We also know that Brobot can "teleport" (it appears by making a hole in reality) and there is no mention of it creating that place, not in the dialogues nor in its card.
 
(it appears by making a hole in reality)
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That does call in a very specific issue, though not for the reasons you're actually suggesting. I'll have to crosscheck some shit now to see if I still agree with it.
 
Chariot190 said:
That is quite literally not what was said by anyone, not even DDM.
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He might’ve misspoke or something, but that seems to be what he said
image0.png
 
He might’ve misspoke or something, but that seems to be what he said
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He probably meant that that the bros were only a few m away from it, as that's what he said a bit later. Though if not, huh, guess I'm the asshole then.
 
This isn't exactly related to the CRT, but can we really apply science to the Mario-verse at all? I mean it is convenient to quantify a feat and apply it to a character, but for the Mario-verse, it's just so inconsistent!

Not to mention within the verse we have magic users, blue lava, living skeletons, and a lot of other things that would not work within our Universe
 
Hagane_no_Saiyajin said:
This isn't exactly related to the CRT, but can we really apply science to the Mario-verse at all? I mean it is convenient to quantify a feat and apply it to a character, but for the Mario-verse, it's just so inconsistent!

Not to mention within the verse we have magic users, blue lava, living skeletons, and a lot of other things that would not work within our Universe
Click to expand...
Going by these standards we wouldn’t be able to powerscale or quantify the feats of the majority of franchises on this site. Mario isn’t the only series that isn’t realistic or inconsistent.
 
Hagane_no_Saiyajin said:
This isn't exactly related to the CRT, but can we really apply science to the Mario-verse at all? I mean it is convenient to quantify a feat and apply it to a character, but for the Mario-verse, it's just so inconsistent!

Not to mention within the verse we have magic users, blue lava, living skeletons, and a lot of other things that would not work within our Universe
Click to expand...
Every verse is inconsistent. Every single one. Even the most realistic verse ever is inconsistent.
The question is just HOW inconsistent, same can be like 99%+ accurate while others can spit in the face of science on purpose. Mario is cartoony yeah but it's not bugs bunny tier for example, there's varying degrees. It's just a generic cartoony verse. So to answer your question, yes, we can apply science, it just depends to WHAT we're applying it too and what feat, if for example, Koopa punched out a giant ******* 100m stone wall, we can math that shit out to get a solid result but something like that bookfeat mentioned above isn't quantifiable by science and doesn't fit into any calculative method, so we don't or cant, though that also applies to blatant toonforce things too like Mario becoming a flat pancake from a thwomp, but not the verse as a whole obviously or all feats and showings.
But that goes with every other verse too. Though, I hope you realize you're borderline asking for the mario verse to outright not have profiles because if we cant use science to quantify anything then we technically can't give them any tiering or speed rating and at that point they don't work within the framework of our wiki.

Magic, skeletons and bubbles is a literal nonfactor otherwise every single fantasy verse would have to go too.
 
Hagane_no_Saiyajin said:
This isn't exactly related to the CRT, but can we really apply science to the Mario-verse at all? I mean it is convenient to quantify a feat and apply it to a character, but for the Mario-verse, it's just so inconsistent!
Click to expand...
We can apply science to anything. My problem is specifically when people go "bro ignore science" to wank a feat.
 
Anyway, Mario should scale to magic feats, as Kamek (he's the one doing most of them) outright uses magic as energy blasts to shoot.
 
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