Relooking at Mario's stats: the sequel

[Ryukama]

I have been extremely busy so sorry for this super late response. But to address Dragon "debunking" my points a while back:

1. Lumas that become Power Stars being "rarer" than lumas that become planets or comets (galaxies never even being mentioned in this quote) does not mean that the lumas that turn into Power Stars are more powerful than the lumas that turn into galaxies. No one can find a statement of that because it simply does not exist.

2. I admit I was wrong that the transformation is irreversible for all lumas. But this does not somehow make the lumas magically transforming into galaxies applicable in combat. They don't have galaxy level offensive attacks. They're not throwing galaxy level punches or ki blasts at anything. They just magically transform into galaxies and can transform back. And lumas being able to revert back does not somehow mean Mario and Bowser scale to this special ability that they do not possess. Mario and Bowser cannot magically transform into galaxies. Only certain lumas can. This should go without saying, but we don't list a superpower on someone's profile if they do not have that superpower.

3. My point is that Bowser had already gathered the vast majority of Power Stars (with Rosalina referring to the ones you collect as "the few remaining"). And there's no reason why he would bother collecting so many stars to only use one Grand Star for his generator. Nor does it make sense for 5-6 Grand Stars + 60 Power Stars to be required just to power a space ship to fly to the center of the universe, yet only 1 Grand Star be needed to power a machine that creates galaxies from scratch. But for the sake of the argument fine. 1 Grand Star powers the generator but still no one scales to it. It's fuel for a machine that performs a feat, not Bowser's own feat. In fact, the guidebook directly says that Bowser burns himself whenever he touches the generator's energy (how Mario manages to beat him in the boss battle). So Bowser obviously does not physically scale to this energy when he cannot even touch the energy without seriously hurting himself.

TLDR: None of these things actually change my overall point that Mario and Bowser do not scale to any Tier 3 feats in SMG. It's just minor nitpicks.

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

@Ryukama We've mostly moved onto the next thread where we are going over speed feats

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

This thread shouldn't be closed at all though.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

The claim wasn't that they are more powerful, but they seem genuinely more important to Rosalina. But either way, Green Power Stars turned back into Lumas and then back into galaxies.

Actually, going boom and forming a galaxy is the text book example of a 3-C feat. It literally is a miniature big bang in a sense thus qualifies as destruction feat as well. And it technically does scale to their durability given their body actually withstands the epic center of that same boom that forms the galaxies. Also, dissing it for being "Magic" is a pet peeve and not an argument. It would still be Galaxy level magic and Lumas actually can use that same "Magic" to fight their enemies. They actually have galaxy level tackles.

And none of this argues against Power Stars or Grand Stars having their own feats individually; Power stars still have multiple feats ranging from Tier 4 to Tier 3 individually; including the black hole being closed to form a Power Star. And there's also plenty of Tier 4 feats outside of Power Stars already mentioned. It was never proposed to have base forms scale from Tier 3 feats. Them collecting multiple Power Stars is just gameplay convenience. I can use that argument to doubt Elder Scrolls protagonists being above tier 9 because they needed to do some puzzles as opposed to just smashing the walls in their path despite the multiple Tier 6 to Tier 1 lore scaling.

But anyway, I'm not actually proposing Tier 3 to be something to scale to main cast, only that the multitude of feats both exist and are super consistent.

 

[Da_Lunge_Fish]

Now, sorry if it's derailing, but it's a thread about Mario stats, so it probably isn't. Could Universal be considered? There are plenty of arguments for it. Sammer Kingdom destruction, Black Jewel scaling, Culex, Megabug, Base Dimentio scaling, SMG2 black hole, etc

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

We should probably stick to the current topics and save Low 2-C for its own thread.

 

[Da_Lunge_Fish]

We should probably stick to the current topics and save Low 2-C for its own thread.

I mean, the thread is discussing mario stats in general

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

The current topic of discussion is evaluating his 4-A/3-C feats currently on his profile. Low 2-C is a big and controversial upgrade that deserves its own thread.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Now, sorry if it's derailing, but it's a thread about Mario stats, so it probably isn't. Could Universal be considered? There are plenty of arguments for it. Sammer Kingdom destruction, Black Jewel scaling, Culex, Megabug, Base Dimentio scaling, SMG2 black hole, etc

Most of these have been debunked.

SMG2 Black Hole isn't a feat

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Universal stuff should be off topic, but Culex and Megabug were both considered not universal at least for Mario; the former is a range feat not an AP feat and Megabug is potrayed as a cut above the main cast. But there are multiple Low 2-C durability feats in SPM yes. And there's another recent one, but shouldn't be mentioned till the new thread.

 

[Da_Lunge_Fish]

Most of these have been debunked.

SMG2 Black Hole isn't a feat

What arguments? And Bowser survived SMG2 Black Hole

 

[Da_Lunge_Fish]

Universal stuff should be off topic, but Culex and Megabug were both considered not universal at least for Mario; the former is a range feat not an AP feat and Megabug is potrayed as a cut above the main cast. But there are multiple Low 2-C durability feats in SPM yes. And there's another recent one, but shouldn't be mentioned till the new thread.

Ok.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

And Bowser survived SMG2 Black Hole

If you think Bowser is universal then literally everything in the universe is universal. The Mario cast had to be shielded and the universe was remade after.

Mario Galaxy Bowser also gets hurt by lava and can't touch his reactor without hurting himself so maybe don't pretend he is universal there.

 

[Bobsican]

Having an high AP doesn't translate into automatically having a heat resistance AFAIK.

 

[DatOneWeeb]

Let's not derail, I think the thread should be closed before this continues.

 

[Ryukama]

I mean if Bowser cannot even touch the energy his generator produces without seriously hurting himself that kinda puts a dent in the "His physical strength scales to the entirety of the energy that his generator produces" claim. Let alone scales to the universe destroying black hole it collapsed into. It especially goes against the idea that random, nameless enemies who were "empowered" by these stars have the entirety of their energy within their body.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Derail = any talk that threatens the mario status quo

 

[NotAMarioFan(lol)]

I think this ap would fall under the main cast not the fodders but the bowser thing that sounds like game mechanics to me lava doesn’t seem to bother him in most of the games in the past. And in smg2 he completely absorbed the power and he says “I’m bigger and stronger than before”