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Relooking at Mario's stats: the sequel

I don't really think that a chain reaction is involved, but still I find difficult to believe that the explosion of that robot collpased the dimension and annihilated hundreds of thousands of solar systems in half a second just because it was destroyed.
And then scaling all of that to Mario, Squirps and Tippli because they tanked a point-blank cosmic explosion like nothing and safely returned home, when minutes earlier a random missile shot by Brobot would have caused way more damage to them.
To me, it seems like a giant exaggeration.
 
If he easily made the space, and they survive its destruction, his attacks (including the missles do scale.)
Even the logic you are pointing to as a debunk seems to just elaborate on why this feat is valid.
Even if you don’t like it or struggle to believe, the facts don’t care.
 
It was already said by DDM too, but nothing implies that Brobot created that space.
Btw, I'm aware that I will be riddled by "it's game mechanics" (I could say that the transition is game mechanics, but I'd just drag hate on me), but I still hardly believe that, because throughout the game (before and after) Mario and co. are constantly harmed by generic stuff and random creatures and then all of a sudden they are unscated by a comics-like galactic explosion on their face after the destruction of a thing that used to throw bombs and mini lasers at them, which are all now supposed to be way stronger than the explosion itself just because they damaged Mario.
 
SamanPatou said:
they tanked a point-blank cosmic explosion like nothing and safely returned home, when minutes earlier a random missile shot by Brobot would have caused way more damage to them.
Click to expand...
I get what you're trying to say, but that's a prime example of AP=/=Destruction Capacity, not every attack needs to have huge explosions or giant destruction behind it.
 
I'll wrote a comment here, because I'm interested. But also will make my little claim that bowser turning Yoshi's island into pop book must be deleted from Mario 4A arguments, cause spell wasn't shown and never was used on Mario. I can be wrong, but Imo that reasoning for Mario 4A is weird.
 
Chariot190 said:
I get what you're trying to say, but that's a prime example of AP=/=Destruction Capacity, not every attack needs to have huge explosions or giant destruction behind it.
Click to expand...
I know, but I still think that it's more likely that something else happened instead of believe that a small explosion from a bomb or a rock that drops on your head have enough energy to obliterate millions of stars concentrated in a half-metre range
 
Hagane_no_Saiyajin said:
You know, it's like how Samus can't be affected by her power bombs
Click to expand...
Bad example, it's just most of the time she's so durable that they do zero damage (and it's not just game play mechanics, we see her tank them in S&J iirc) and in Fusion, at her absolute weakest, she ends up taking a power bomb from the SA-X in a scripted sequence, it does the minimum amount of damage even though she's super weak comparatively to the point she's helpless and can be like one or two shot by it's beam at that point.
 
@Maverick_Zero_X even if inverse square law is used, Mario and Luigi are still a few meters away at worst when the collision happens; it would still be in the 4-A range given that the explosion is barely a few meters in diameter.

@SamanPatou Also, the "Getting harmed by random creatures thing" is a terrible argument; pretty much every character in video games has that argument. Coughs Coughs, Dragonborn getting killed by a couple of arrows.
 
I agree with you that most of the times these things are game mechanics or just things made for the sake of the game, but what I don't like is the snowball effect that comes from accepting the thing.

Mario is unscated by Brobot wiping out thousands of solar systems > Brobot and others things can harm Mario > All of them are now superior to that explosion.
I mean, I know that the word is hated, but couldn't it really be an outlier or another case of mechanics/inconsistent thing?
I'm definitely more likely to believe that instead of scaling all of them over that small and isolated thing. (I'm not even convinced that it actually destroyed a 4-A structure, but this doesn't matter)
 
I'm definitely more likely to believe that instead of scaling all of them over that small and isolated thing.
Click to expand...

If that is indeed the only tier 4 feat then I'm inclined to agree, though, for now, I can't agree or disagree, waiting on Shiro to give input first before I say anything in regards to numerical amount of feats.
Though, someone who has some time should make an effort to look over the verse for feats, I'm not available to do that right now, so it'll have to fall to someone else, I say this because you never know what one may find if you actually look.

Though I will say, this isn't an example of game mechanics, game mechanics by definition aren't what happened here and has literally nothing to do with mechanics or gameplay.
 
Cutscenes take priority over gameplay, and we're still discussing the multitude of Tier 4 feats out there. And this is the same game with multiple Tier 2 durability feats; one of which is something Mario also did.

I don't think the missiles or lasers actually have more firepower than the explosion, and actually; that's just another reminder that I'm going to right something about 90% of military weapons in fiction. Specifically, all supernatural or supermetal made, or non Toon force physics defying weapons need to be judge from their own calcs first and foremost. DC =/= AP is a good argument for magic, Ki blasts, and melee attacks, but not so good arguments for lead bullets, anti-tank rockets, satellite lasers or man made nuclear bombs. But there are still other aspects such as Brobot L-Type using punches as many other bosses. The Ironic thing is Mr L himself is actually more durable than his own mech.
 
SamanPatou said:
I agree with you that most of the times these things are game mechanics or just things made for the sake of the game, but what I don't like is the snowball effect that comes from accepting the thing.

Mario is unscated by Brobot wiping out thousands of solar systems > Brobot and others things can harm Mario > All of them are now superior to that explosion.
I mean, I know that the word is hated, but couldn't it really be an outlier or another case of mechanics/inconsistent thing?
I'm definitely more likely to believe that instead of scaling all of them over that small and isolated thing. (I'm not even convinced that it actually destroyed a 4-A structure, but this doesn't matter)
Click to expand...
That's kind of just how scaling works. I'm pretty sure a lot of people feel odd about a random robot that gets hurt by bad words as 3-A, but it doesn't stop the fact he has the feats to support his scaling.

It would really only be an outlier if the King Boo and Power Star stuff get rejected, otherwise, they're just going to keep their 4-A ratings with this as yet another supporting feat with the others they have. Isolated would not really be the right word in that context because it'd be a repeated thing they've shown to be comparable to.
 
Well, the developers needed a way to quickly bring back the cast on "Earth" without renouncing entirely to the space battle.
That's what I meant with mechanics.

Looking through and debate all of the 4-A-related feats in the series will be a loooong journey.

I'm also iffy on used stuff from other games to judge this feat coninstent or not , but I don't really have clear-cut arguments on my side.

@Medeus I get your point, though it's strange to think that Mario is virtually invulnerable to anything Brobot could do to harm him
 
SamanPatou said:
I'm also iffy on used stuff from other games to judge this feat coninstent or not , but I don't really have clear-cut arguments on my side
Click to expand...
I mean this is something we do with every franchise. If it fits inside of the continuity/canon, using comparisons to other past and future feats are completely fair game. It's kind of necessary too when Mario's profile covers his appearances in all of these canon games.
 
@Ploz I know, it's just that somewhere (possibly in the MGS CRT) it was popular the idea to evaluate the consistency of a feat within the game in which it happens.

Btw, Magetta ism't really fit for the example, because that's a phsicological thing, but DB is totally a good example of the thing
 
Medeus:

So what is the consensus regarding which 4-A feats that are useful and we should use to scale from?
 
I think it's been agreed that the Brobot destruction is at the very least a solid 4-A durability feat, the next topic on the list I believe is the Super Mario 64 dimensions. But I only got 15 minutes before work; Maverick may update the OP. If more arguments get brought up, I might be able to come back afterwards.
 
Last edited:
Medeus:

Okay. Thanks. No problem.
 
SamanPatou said:
but I still hardly believe that, because throughout the game (before and after) Mario and co. are constantly harmed by generic stuff and random creatures
Click to expand...
I think your issue is that you can’t believe the random monsters are capable of surviving 4-A feats and causing harm to those that have survived it. Cool, as I can’t believe things like Cell Jr.’s or random Mechs from other franchises are capable of destroying a mountain or surviving the destruction of one on 1st glance.

Perception and facts don’t like each other.
 
ElixirBlue said:
I think your issue is that you can’t believe the random monsters are capable of surviving 4-A feats and causing harm to those that have survived it. Cool, as I can’t believe things like Cell Jr.’s or random Mechs from other franchises are capable of destroying a mountain or surviving the destruction of one on 1st glance.

Perception and facts don’t like each other.
Click to expand...
It's a bit different, at least for me, but you surely have a point
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
I think it's been agreed that the Brobot destruction is at the very least a solid 4-A durability feat, the next topic on the list I believe is the Super Mario 64 dimensions. But I only got 15 minutes before work; Maverick may update the OP. If more arguments get brought up, I might be able to come back afterwards.
Click to expand...
Yeah, we should probably settle which interpretation of the SM64 feats we're using and the scaling because I am currently hella confused about that.
 
Maverick_Zero_X said:
So Mario and Mr. L have a 4-A durability feat.
Click to expand...
Technically it applies to Bowser and Peach as well :p

My arguments for the Power Stars is:

  • Bowser was stated to create these worlds
  • Said worlds contain a sun and were stated to have stars like a day and night system (Should be noted considering how the sun is our source of light in these levels proves they're real)
  • Mario and Luigi scale to Power Star users as they consistently defeat enemies who are amped by them in several games such as 64, Galaxy, Galaxy 2, and Odyssey.
 
DatOneWeeb said:
Kart and Party is kind of weird for scaling. Since fodders are playable, we only really scale it in a way that makes sense. Bowser basically in every Mario Party game is shown to basically crush the players or harm them. King Boo does the same in one of the boss mini-games iirc. I was planning on maybe doing a Mario Party thread, but that will take a lot of time.
Click to expand...
This is why I'm against using the speed feat
 
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