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Yes. Maybe also other individuals
who made character profiles from old novels
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Regarding Sun Wukong (Journey to the West)'s Tier
- Thread starter Ionliosite
- Start date
- Status
who made character profiles from old novels
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@Matthew_Schroeder @Amelia_Lonelyheart @The_real_cal_howard @Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan
We would appreciate your input here.
We would appreciate your input here.
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Hmmm. How would you know of his intent then? Did he write somewhere about his intentions when writing JttW?
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Well it's a possibly within a possible possibility.
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The likelihood of that is so minuscule given this is Journey to the West. It’s like asking to find the notes of Dante when he was writing the Divine Comedy.
Udlmaster
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My point exactly, so the argument can’t be used entirely, no matter what way you put it.
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A banned member wants somebody knowledgeable to take a look at the following posts, in case there is any useful information there: https://community.fandom.com/wiki/Thread:2040633
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He has a point
Udlmaster
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Everything in the Bible was meant to be taken as truth, that’s why they call it “The Gospel Truth”
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I was more saying it litteraly like in a litterary way, for example when Jesus says "Lazurus is sleeping", dude isn't sleeping at all and iirc it's flat out said to be a metaphor nobody understood.
Having metaphor or flowery language isn't incompatible with the truth anyway.
Udlmaster
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I'm mostly not gonna comment on Biblical canon, because that is a sinkhole that none of us want to go down since the leaders of the Abrahamic beliefs aren't too sure on the canon either.
After reading Hammerstrike's comments, he seems to be confused when I talk about 2-A Wukong.
What I am doing is seeing what the text says, accepting it and then saying "This is what we rank that as"
Not to be confused with what I was arguing against, which was applying a filter for the text and altering what the text means and then ranking it.
After reading Hammerstrike's comments, he seems to be confused when I talk about 2-A Wukong.
What I am doing is seeing what the text says, accepting it and then saying "This is what we rank that as"
Not to be confused with what I was arguing against, which was applying a filter for the text and altering what the text means and then ranking it.
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So did anybody find anything useful here?
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First point isn't a point. It claims some people are misinformed, which I'm sure is true, but it doesn't add to the argument unless there is a specific thing one wants to bring up.
Second point, not much of an argument either. Again, it's a claim that people misinterpret happenings and quotes. I am aware he casually destroyed a mountain, but that tells me little new.
Third point is applicable to majority of verses old or new that don't conform to a world as we know it today. Unsong takes place in a planet that is surrounded by crystal that gives the illusion of depth for space, wihh reality being effectively a battle of scrabble where words, synonims and names can be weaponized.
Problem with the argument is that there isn't the need for the Serie to comfort to the modern world. But it needs feats all the same. The magnitude of damage he does can still be observed.
Another point he brings up in 3 is removing him from the religious context. Problem is, the religious context not presented in the book was subject to change, being mostly oral, and is simply not applicable. If the story itself didn't explain the mechanics of the world, that's too bad, but you can't rely on it. I wouldn't have Zeus get a profile from the Iliad and say he is 4-C due to Apollo existing, as there is no remote proof of that.
Speaking of Apollo, no, defeating the deity of a star is not remotely tierable, let alone default equal across fiction. Destroying celestial bodies, stars, or beings embodying stars is a videly varying feat, and ignoring the context to say that what Wukong does is the same as destroying a giant ball of burning gas is just incorrect.
Four again, is not a factor here? "Putting Wukong against people with multiple iterations" is not something that needs to be discussed. Even generally, the idea of "this character had more iterations/chapters/seasons so it's not fair to compare them to another character" isn't really usable as an argument.
Him saying that the infinite realms is out of context for the cosmology is... something too, I guess? Not very applicable without an actual argument, for or against.
But yes, if the profile can't be made without relying on outside material, then this falls under the Mythology standard we got now. If it can, use actual showcases of power.
Second point, not much of an argument either. Again, it's a claim that people misinterpret happenings and quotes. I am aware he casually destroyed a mountain, but that tells me little new.
Third point is applicable to majority of verses old or new that don't conform to a world as we know it today. Unsong takes place in a planet that is surrounded by crystal that gives the illusion of depth for space, wihh reality being effectively a battle of scrabble where words, synonims and names can be weaponized.
Problem with the argument is that there isn't the need for the Serie to comfort to the modern world. But it needs feats all the same. The magnitude of damage he does can still be observed.
Another point he brings up in 3 is removing him from the religious context. Problem is, the religious context not presented in the book was subject to change, being mostly oral, and is simply not applicable. If the story itself didn't explain the mechanics of the world, that's too bad, but you can't rely on it. I wouldn't have Zeus get a profile from the Iliad and say he is 4-C due to Apollo existing, as there is no remote proof of that.
Speaking of Apollo, no, defeating the deity of a star is not remotely tierable, let alone default equal across fiction. Destroying celestial bodies, stars, or beings embodying stars is a videly varying feat, and ignoring the context to say that what Wukong does is the same as destroying a giant ball of burning gas is just incorrect.
Four again, is not a factor here? "Putting Wukong against people with multiple iterations" is not something that needs to be discussed. Even generally, the idea of "this character had more iterations/chapters/seasons so it's not fair to compare them to another character" isn't really usable as an argument.
Him saying that the infinite realms is out of context for the cosmology is... something too, I guess? Not very applicable without an actual argument, for or against.
But yes, if the profile can't be made without relying on outside material, then this falls under the Mythology standard we got now. If it can, use actual showcases of power.
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Either apply what work or either delete it if people find it not being accurate enough without the stuff that doesn't work.
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Either way I'm indifferent to this, I've always seen profiles that use IRL "mythology" to be a major grey area.
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Delete it
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I mean, sure, but I was asking you personally, Udl. If we do not have that in hand, then afaik according to the VSBW rules we shouldn't include it in the first place and do without it to judge, like the site does with say, Omnipotence.
From your comments I thought that you may have some manuscript of sort where he wrote the thoughts and the intents he had when writing JttW. If he doesn't then according to the site then we have to do without it y'know. Judge ourselves. So the "Author might have literally meant that" thing, in my opinion, cannot be applied here since we don't know his intent. And if we don't know it, we'll exclude it. And if we exclude it, we have to judge by our own perspective the most rational/safe way of looking at this. Or else it's an infinite circle of "NoU". If for example (hypothetically speaking) we see Constellations weilding swords, sleeping in tents and and being impressed at seeing someone turn into a mountain, and we do not have a manuscript of JttW's author, I believe the sensible way a rational mind would percieve this as is definitely not assuming said constellations are giant balls of burning gas (ofc this is excluding if they show a "human" form and a "ball of gas" form). If you do have it though, nevermind all that.[/I]
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Udlmaster
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Yeah, that's why I said I'm partial to it just being removed.
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Yeah just delete the Profile if there's no consensus for the Stats themselves
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I think deletion is good if the other people don't want the profile how it works on the tiering system we have now.
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If we can't reach a consensus to accurately tier it, then deletion makes sense. Although, I wanted to keep the profile given how popular and iconic the character is, but if nothing can be done then so be it.
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Okay. Would you be willing to handle it Zaratthustra? It is probably best to link to this thread as a deletion justification.
In addition, other pages that link to Sun Wukong need to have those links removed as well.
In addition, other pages that link to Sun Wukong need to have those links removed as well.
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I will handle it.
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I've deleted him and removed the link.
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Well. the profile is deleted and I can't find a reason in this thread.
Update: Well... I found the reason. The link does not bring to the newest discussion automatically. I think it may be the best choice.
Update: Well... I found the reason. The link does not bring to the newest discussion automatically. I think it may be the best choice.
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Since we can't agree on whether or not to take the flowery language literally, and since there ARE many people who would like him to still have a profile like myself, couldn't we just list his stats at "Unknown, at least City to Mountain Class, possibly High Universe Level" and "Unknown, at least Universe Level+, possibly Multiverse Level+"? That way people who did and did not want to take it literally without feats could have it both ways.
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- Thread starter
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We never take flowery language literally, that's a site standard.
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Other than the question of the tiers, I don't see what's the problem with his profile.
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Since the profile is deleted, then it seems over.
However, the question is that "what should be considered as flowery language in JttW" Don't forget that JttW has Taoism and Buddhism gods.
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