Regarding Pegasus Seiya's Tier

[Ryukama]

Hello. I was wondering why God Cloth Pegasus while not "at his peak" is listed as 3-A due to effortlessly killing a 3-B.

Surely due to the absurdly large and extremely unknown gap between MG and Universe, it would not require being 3-A to be able to kill a 3-B without effort.

And upon reading Thanatos's profile it does not even seem like he's a very high end 3-B capable of destroying significant portions of the universe, rather capable of effortlessly stomping casual galaxy levels. Which seems to further support that one does not necessarily need to be Universe level to stomp him.

Unless there is some other justification besides the Thanatos thing, I think perhaps it'd be better to list regular God Cloth Seiya as "Multi-Galaxy" or possibly even "At least Multi-Galaxy."

What do you guys think? Any input would be appreciated.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I'm going to post some scans to better justify Seiya's rating, bear with me.

 

[Ryukama]

@Matt So Pegasus has other reasons for being 3-A besides the Thanatos fight?

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Gotta say I agree. It makes little sense.

What does "At peak" even means? If he did a 3-B feat casually and then did a High 3-A feat, he should be high 3-A

 

[Reppuzan]

@Saikou

Due to Shonen mechanics, Saints rarely start the fight at full power. Once they're pushed to the brink and their Cosmos is burned to its limits, only then do they show their full might.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

He's High 3-A via miracles I do believe...

 

[Tivanenk]

@Ryukama There are many other reasons which aren't listed on the profile itself.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

About Seiya, I was wondering why he's not low 2-C for cracking the surplice instead of high 3-A...

 

[Cropfist]

Hades was holding back immensely and the damage was minimal.

 

[Ryukama]

Sorry to get a bit off topic (just waiting for Matt to provide his other reasons.)

However I kinda agree with Cal on the "At his Peak" thing. Sure Pegasus's damage towards Hades was minimal. But you cannot deal "minimal" damage to someone who is literally infinitely superior to you. Pegasus should be Low 2-C for that in my opinion.

 

[The_Everlasting]

Sorry to get a bit off topic (just waiting for Matt to provide his other reasons.)
However I kinda agree with Cal on the "At his Peak" thing. Sure Pegasus's damage towards Hades was minimal. But you cannot deal "minimal" damage to someone who is literally infinitely superior to you. Pegasus should be Low 2-C for that in my opinion.

Seiya is the "less than universal 4-D" High 3-A, not the "infinite 3-D" High 3-A.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I will make my post explaining. This will involve only feats from Classic Manga.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Actually, I will not, I feel I can get more scans. Wait a bit.

 

[Ryukama]

@Ever Okay I see then.

@Matt Alright thank you.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Actually, I will not, I feel I can get more scans. Wait a bit.

The suspense is killing me

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Alright, let's get this started with.

- Cracks Knuckles -

First of all, this is a feat done by Poseidon, while still only in Julian Solo's body:


He was capable of encompassing the universe with his Cosmos, yet proved weaker than Clothless Athena, as she has her true divine body.

Later, during the Hades Arc, we are introduced to one of the most powerful techniques in Saint Seiya, the Athena Exclamation:



It's power is equal to that of a Small-Scale Big Bang. That's straight up 3-B, if not higher.

According to the manga, if two Athena Exclamations collide, their power increase exponentially:


Here's an explanation of the nature of Gold Cloths:


Near the end of the Hades Arc, the Saints need to pass through the Wailing Wall to reach Elysium. What is the Wailing Wall? It's basically Hades' own Source Wall, for all you DC fans reading. It's infinitely wide and infinitely wall, so you cannot get around it, and as it is covered by Hades' divine Cosmos, all attacks thrown at it are absorbed and thrown back at the caster. Only a god can destroy it and get through it.

Except that the Gold Saints manage to. All 12 Gold Saints raise their cosmos to their maximum level and sacrifice their lives to release a ray of light which pierces the Wailing Wall. At the bare minimum, this is an Athena Exclamation x4, but it is likely exponentially higher.



... Did you read and understand all that? Good.

God Cloth Saints are above all of this, as I am going to prove now.

Here are some Scans of what is said before Seiya awakens his God Cloth:





Saints burn and raise their Cosmos and perform Miracles, this is more or less established in the series. To reach his God Cloth, Seiya had to create the ultimate Miracle. In Athena's own words:

"Humans can emit infinite strength and bring about miracles that surpass the gods."

"That's right Seiya! Rekindle the flame of your life. Elevate your Cosmos to the ultimate degree... Let it burn higher and hotter than ever before! Infinitely higher... Infinitely... Infinitely"

But Matthew, you magnificent bastard, that is all just hyperbole! I hear you shouting. Sorry kiddo, but it isn't. There are more pages hammering about the God Cloth's infinite power.

This is some of Hypnos' thoughts about it:



Thanatos is left in amazement witnessing Seiya's new Cloth, and can't comprehend the immense Cosmos emanating from it. Hypnos explains to him that Seiya's Cloth has become a Sacred Armor, or a Kamui:



God Cloths are so powerful that they are thought to approach the level of a ******* Kamui, the armors worn by the 12 Gods of Olympus. Saints reach them by elevating their Cosmos infinitely, and they far surpass all powers depicted in the manga until that point. Rating God Cloth Saints at 3-A is actually a Low End, they could all very well be High 3-A.

And this is why Seiya kicks Son Goku's sorry ass.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

^That last comment was uneeded Matt.

 

[Tivanenk]

Approved just for the final message, Matt.

 

[Ryukama]

@Matt Thank you for elaborating. Could you please add some of these to Pegasus's profile so he can have better justification for his rating.

 

[Lina_Shields]

Hmm, do you think that all the God Cloth Saints should be rated High 3-A via their highest feats? Their striking strength should be Universal Class normally, High Universal at full power however.

Also, reading about the Athena Exclamation, you have stated that it is equivalent to a big bang, correct (it is stated in the scan you posted above)? That should be a 3-A feat, if not higher.

 

[Victor2]

i have all god cloth saint`s low 2-C since they`r more powerfull than the combined powers of 12 gold saint`s concentrating to destroy the willing wall which is a cosmic wall that seperates two universes apart from each other.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Nah. Low 2-C God Cloth is wank.

 

[Victor2]

Nah. Low 2-C God Cloth is wank.

not quite. According to SSO the big bang in verse is Low 2-C and god cloth saint`s are more powerfull than that. also why are omega saint`s only 3-B? they should be comparable to god cloth saint`s

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Nah, Ranking Athena Exclamations at Low2-C would generate a lot of problems. High 3-A God Saints and Low 2-C Seiya at peak is a possibility, but I'm uncertain.

 

[Victor2]

i understand that, hence i`m not complaining about the ranking of god cloth saints.

however, omega cloth saint`s needs some love, they`r really not getting any attention from what i can tell

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

3-A Omega God Cloths? Sure.

 

[Tivanenk]

Honestly, I always thought that the Omega Cloths were comparable to God Cloths, so I wouldn't mind 3-A Omega Cloths.

 

[Lina_Shields]

@Tivanenk: What is your opinion on placing God Cloths straight up High 3-A? All of the God Cloth Saints should be comparable to each other.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

I agree. From what I've seen from concept and appearance they should be equal to God Cloths. And God Cloths should be comparable

 

[Victor2]

yea. i really don`t get why they`r blew god cloth saints

 

[Victor2]

@Tivanenk: What is your opinion on placing God Cloths straight up High 3-A? All of the God Cloth Saints should be comparable to each other.

i wouldn`t also won`t mind this considering my reasons. but even High 3-A is a considerable boost from 3-A to high 3-A

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

@Tivanenk: What is your opinion on placing God Cloths straight up High 3-A? All of the God Cloth Saints should be comparable to each other.

I disagree. Seiya is above the other God Cloth Saints, he gets High 3-A for slightly hurting Hades.

 

[Tivanenk]

@Lina That's something that I've been thinking and discussing with Matt. It's possible, but... I have reasons for it and reasons against it at the same time.

Athena's Exclamation has always been a bit iffy. High 3-A is plausible for God Saints, and so is Low 2-C for Peak God Cloth Seiya (Aiolos has demonstrated at Low 2-C recently so it's not a farfetched idea).

The problem then comes in with Zodiac Exclamation and Athena herself. It's quite possible for scaling to spiral out of control in this situation.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I edited the Omega Bronze Saints profiles, btw.

 

[Lina_Shields]

@Tivanenk: Matt has said that God Cloth Seiya is above the other God Cloths for being able to hurt Hades. I recede my statement in this case.

 

[Tivanenk]

Oh yeah, and as Matt mentioned, Seiya is clearly vastly above the other Saints, bar maybe (and that's a big maybe) Ikki. This is demonstrated in Assassin quite visibly, when Seiya outmatches the achievements of all the other Saints in the manga (bar Aiolos) combined using a shoddy broken cloth while injured.

 

[Victor2]

@Lina That's something that I've been thinking and discussing with Matt. It's possible, but... I have reasons for it and reasons against it at the same time.
Athena's Exclamation has always been a bit iffy. High 3-A is plausible for God Saints, and so is Low 2-C for Peak God Cloth Seiya (Aiolos has demonstrated at Low 2-C recently so it's not a farfetched idea).

The problem then comes in with Zodiac Exclamation and Athena herself. It's quite possible for scaling to spiral out of control in this situation.

i can agree with this. seiya low 2-C at his peak while other god cloth saint`s are 3-A to high 3-A in thier peak

 

[Victor2]

I edited the Omega Bronze Saints profiles, btw.

yes. they`r much better now

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

What happens if we accept Seiya at Low 2-C

1) Weakest Titans would be At least Low 2-C, likey 2-C

2) Keraunos-Wielding Aiolia would have to be 2-C

2) Athena would be pushed to 2-C

3) Apollo would likely end up At least 2-C

4) Sealed Sun Titan Hyperion would likely end up 2-C, and Unsealed quite possibly 2-B

5) 2-B Hades

6) Do you see how this is reeking of Google+ Debates by now?

 

[Victor2]

i`m agreeing with peak seiya being low 2-C tho