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Possible Mario Profile Split/Varies Rating

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Pikaman said:
Are we... still not all in agreement 3-C is an outlier?
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No. I said is fine because of the 4-A Power Stars which are still valid here. And Power Stars are consistently brought up in most of the relevant games.
Bobsican said:
I don't have to mention that a number of feats isn't the only basis for a character's rating, how consistent is for their capability also matters.
We aren't going to downgrade every verse just because tier 9 feats are far more prominent than, say, tier 2 ones.
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Quite of. We're not downgrading Pokémon to Tier 6 because the majority of the feats of legendaries are in this range.
 
Bobsican said:
I don't have to mention that a number of feats isn't the only basis for a character's rating, how consistent is for their capability also matters..
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Yeah this is what I was trying to say, sorry didn’t put it the best way
 
Medeus seemed to make good sense to me above. I think that we should listen to what he and @GyroNutz think that we should do regarding this issue.
 
Technically wouldn't Low 2-C be accepted if we take 3-C as not an outlier and Mario's power just varying?

Because this feat was just dismissed as outlier and never really debunked, but given the possibility of a "Varies", I think this can be fine, with 4-C to 3-C things supporting it. And it can't be an outlier, given the higher the tier, the higher the gaps, and I never heard of Tier 4/3 contradicting Tier 2 stuff ever here.

In SPM, Mario and his party withstand the incomplete Void, which destroys the dimension of Sammer’s Kingdom.

The Void destroys space-time, and Mario’s party were still in the universe as it was being destroyed.

- "At the 30th gate, The Void will reach its mature state and destroy the kingdom of the Sammer Guys-with you still in it."
 
Lou_change said:
Alright if I understand what is happening we are proposing splitting Mario and most of the main cast into a bunch of profiles. The games reference each other quite often, sometimes there is evidence that they are playing their own games reminder the Mario cast is described as a cast of actors but they always play the same characters as the difficulty of figuring out anything close to an accurate way to find what each version should consist of. I think a Varies or just assuming their holding back somehow would be more reasonable.
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Assuming they are holding back is a bit ridiculous, especially when you consider a lot of feats such as those in BIS where Bowser needs to break through or lift something, him "holding back" doesn't make any sense there. You can't justify lower end feats with saying they are holding back without providing valid reasons for them to do so.
 
Bobsican said:
I don't have to mention that a number of feats isn't the only basis for a character's rating, how consistent is for their capability also matters.
We aren't going to downgrade every verse just because tier 9 feats are far more prominent than, say, tier 2 ones.
Click to expand...
While I agree with this statement, the Mario cast has demonstrably more consistent feats in the Tier 8-7 range than in the 3-2 range. It's staggering how inconsistent Mario's Tier 3-2 feats are even in the very games they are performed in.
 
Seol404 said:
Assuming they are holding back is a bit ridiculous, especially when you consider a lot of feats such as those in BIS where Bowser needs to break through or lift something, him "holding back" doesn't make any sense there. You can't justify lower end feats with saying they are holding back without providing valid reasons for them to do so.
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The trope of actors thing for one it's not like they are trying to hold back it is just the plot requires it it's not like bowser's minions makes any sense with current scaling.
 
Lou_change said:
The trope of actors thing for one it's not like they are trying to hold back it is just the plot requires it it's not like bowser's minions makes any sense with current scaling.
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The trope of actors statement doesn't really justify them holding back their power in certain instances, merely that Nintendo doesn't want it's characters to be restricted by an overarching canon.
 
Pikaman said:
I think it has some good points but condenses Super Mario Bros. WAYYYYYYY too much, M&L, the 3D Games, and possibly New Super probably don’t belong in there
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It may condense too much, but compared to others I don't think M&L conflicts too much with the 3D games. But considering how unique they are comparatively they could totally have their own profiles.

New Super is whatever, it could have its own profile or it could be condensed.
 
Just a note because I see it consistently brought up in this thread. Tier 4 Power Stars were bucked from the profile in a previous CRT due to translational differences, the Power Stars "creating" the painting realms wasn't even in the original text, which was the basis for the removal from the profiles iirc. I'm not sure if there are any other major Tier 4 feats in the series (I don't recall any off the top of my head), unless Mario Party has some star level shit hiding in there.

The CRT in question if anybody was wondering:
vsbattles.com

Attempting to debunk Super Mario 64 power star (yet again!)

According to here Power Stars were used to create worlds in paintings, but if this thread hasn't made itself clear I'm hear to tell everyone that isn't really the case Now the points that I'm going to bring up were addressed in previous Mario CRTs over a year ago, but those threads became such...
vsbattles.com vsbattles.com

There's a lot less credence of Tier 3 being somewhat consistent without the Tier 4 Power Stars honestly, as all the feats higher than Tier 7 come from Paper Mario, the Tier 5 summons are from that series and all. That's about all though. Anything above Tier 3 are from amps.

Other than the Grand Star Tier 3 stuff from Galaxy, most feats in mainline 3D don't breach Tier 7 iirc.
 
Kirbonic_Pikmin said:
Just a note because I see it consistently brought up in this thread. Tier 4 Power Stars were bucked from the profile in a previous CRT due to translational differences, the Power Stars "creating" the painting realms wasn't even in the original text, which was the basis for the removal from the profiles iirc. I'm not sure if there are any other major Tier 4 feats in the series (I don't recall any off the top of my head), unless Mario Party has some star level shit hiding in there.

The CRT in question if anybody was wondering:
https://vsbattles.com/threads/attempting-to-debunk-super-mario-64-power-star-yet-again.129109/
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That's still in the profile, so I assume that CRT is rejected lol.

Besides Power Stars have 4-B feats also.
 
StrymULTRA said:
That's still in the profile, so I assume that CRT is rejected lol.
Click to expand...
Mario profiles are odd to keep up with, there's so much shit in them its hard to apply the changes everywhere. I had to open a CRT a while back because 4A was still on several profiles thoughout the verse. If you look at the end of the CRT you can see it went through and the changes were appended. It's why 4A is no longer on their profiles.

This was the CRT I opened.
 
Kirbonic_Pikmin said:
Mario profiles are odd to keep up with, there's so much shit in them its hard to apply the changes everywhere. I had to open a CRT a while back because 4A was still on several profiles thoughout the verse. If you look at the end of the CRT it went through and the changes were appended. It's why 4A is no longer on the profile.

This was the CRT I opened.
Click to expand...
Is because now the 4-A feat is used as supportive argument for 3-C rating lol.

Galaxy level (Can create black holes with this level of power, constellations with this much energy, and realms with numerous stars. They are stated to be comparable to Lumas by Rosalina, such are capable of becoming comets, planets, stars, and galaxies)
 
StrymULTRA said:
Is because now the 4-A feat is used as supportive argument for 3-C rating lol.

Galaxy level (Can create black holes with this level of power, constellations with this much energy, and realms with numerous stars. They are stated to be comparable to Lumas by Rosalina, such are capable of becoming comets, planets, stars, and galaxies)
Click to expand...
No, the feat just shouldn't be on profiles at all, it's unusable. This is likely still a hold-over from when it was considered 4A.

Considering that the tier was left on nearly the entire verse even after it was deemed unusable, it's likely just an issue with the wiki staff being so busy & spread thin over the past year that it hasn't been completely scrubbed from every Mario related page / profile yet.
 
Kirbonic_Pikmin said:
No, the feat just shouldn't be on profiles at all, it's unusable. This is likely still a hold-over from when it was considered 4A.

Considering that the tier was left on nearly the entire verse even after it was deemed unusable, it's likely just an issue with the wiki staff being so busy & spread thin over the past year that it hasn't been completely scrubbed from every Mario related page / profile yet.
Click to expand...
This is correct. I was there with that thread to begin with especially with the translations render that feat unusable.
 
StrymULTRA said:
I never saw any kind of debunk against the 4-B feats tho.
Click to expand...
Yeah, but this does warrant a downgrade from Tier 3. After all, outside of the power stars being considered amps IIRC. We have to actually consider how many amps Mario has used in numerous games too in its long history
 
HammerStrikes219 said:
Yeah, but this does warrant a downgrade from Tier 3. After all, outside of the power stars being considered amps IIRC. We have to actually consider how many amps Mario has used in numerous games too in its long history
Click to expand...
That doesn't really matter as Power Stars are > Lumas which are what have Tier 3 in the 1st place.

I'm just trying to say that 3-C ain't an outlier given that there's stuff supporting it (and I'm even pushing for Low 2-C with Sammer Kingdom given why don't try this too, there are cosmic feats and the Varies thing can help us).
 
HammerStrikes219 said:
Not necessarily. Heck, it was being debated here too:
Post in thread 'So Long 2-B Mario... (Potentially BIG downgrade for SPM feats)'
https://vsbattles.com/threads/so-lo...g-downgrade-for-spm-feats.131023/post-4711786
Click to expand...
l̵e̵a̵v̵e̵ ̵D̵i̵m̵e̵n̵t̵i̵o̵ ̵a̵l̵o̵n̵e̵,̵ ̵h̵e̵'̵s̵ ̵l̵i̵k̵e̵ ̵t̵h̵e̵ ̵s̵i̵n̵g̵l̵e̵ ̵c̵h̵a̵r̵a̵c̵t̵e̵r̵ ̵t̵h̵a̵t̵'̵s̵ ̵a̵c̵t̵u̵a̵l̵l̵y̵ ̵s̵t̵r̵a̵i̵g̵h̵t̵f̵o̵r̵w̵a̵r̵d̵
 
Anything related to Super Paper Mario is an amp, yeah, so it should be unaffected on terms of consistency as there's a proper reasoning for power fluctuating there than most else.
 
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