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Okay. To me that seems like a much more practically feasible solution than 20 different profile pages for all major Mario characters.
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Possible Mario Profile Split/Varies Rating
- Thread starter Armorchompy
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@Armorchompy @Maverick_Zero_X @Seol404 @Eficiente @Elizhaa @AKM sama @Pikaman @TMaakkonen @Newendigo @Psychomaster35 @Confluctor @Bobsican @I'm_Blue_daba_dee_daba_die @sanicspood @Nero415 @Chariot190 @DarkDragonMedeus @GyroNutz
What do you think about this solution?
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Ok nvm.
In SM64 Power Stars do create painting worlds, and those empower who holds those. And those worlds in databooks are described as real, with their size ranging from High 4-C to 4-A.
I'll try to find other stuff later.
In SM64 Power Stars do create painting worlds, and those empower who holds those. And those worlds in databooks are described as real, with their size ranging from High 4-C to 4-A.
I'll try to find other stuff later.
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That many keys for a file is fugly-looking.
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Beyond that, it'll be the really ugly Bakugan files we have, where they have 13 keys back to back on the exact same file.
For formatting that looks half-decent, either go Varies or make other files, otherwise it'd be crumpled up shit
For formatting that looks half-decent, either go Varies or make other files, otherwise it'd be crumpled up shit
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10 to 12 approx, that's the conservative estimate of not counting wacky shit and only mainline.
Pikaman
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Could be up to as many as 20 worst case scenario but likely less and far less for all outside the main cast
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Pikaman
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^ Here’s my take on the profiles but I know most people would prefer a bit more fusing done
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Like acknowledge there still won't just be 4 tiers, Armor's compilation is ONLY anti-feats and not feats, various games can have their own consistencies, and in each one of these games Mario's capabilities can very well change notably, OR there can be sub-keys within said games needing to be accounted.
Unless we want this level of file but far more wordier, option A and B are the only feasible option of doing this if we were to do it.
Either options will have accompanying notes explaining the reason for the formatting, so if people REALLY do wanna misunderstand the reasoning and get dismissive that's entirely on them.
Unless we want this level of file but far more wordier, option A and B are the only feasible option of doing this if we were to do it.
Either options will have accompanying notes explaining the reason for the formatting, so if people REALLY do wanna misunderstand the reasoning and get dismissive that's entirely on them.
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- Thread starter
- #375
For the record, option B is basically a composite and we do not allow composites. It'd be like making a single Godzilla profile with Varies from 9-B to 2-A and compositing P&A of every incarnation, it'd be unreliable and misrepresentative.
I'm still very much for option A. Option C also doesn't work for Zark's reasons, you'd need an incredibly nested and overcomplicated profile which in practice would really just effectively be the same as A, just uglier, less accurate to our usual standards and way harder to interpret.
I'm still very much for option A. Option C also doesn't work for Zark's reasons, you'd need an incredibly nested and overcomplicated profile which in practice would really just effectively be the same as A, just uglier, less accurate to our usual standards and way harder to interpret.
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I suppose that focusing for the most noteworthy games (that are connected with each other) only, such as Mario RPG, Mario Galaxy, and Mario Odyssey, could work. I don't think that it seems realistic to quickly produce profile pages for every single game.
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Relevant games are the focus ye, we aren't compelled to list every Mario game in existence the same way we aren't expected to make every Batman version in existence.
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If a lot of Mario's end up combined, that should be ok? Like 2D+3D can be argued to be the same line, especially with Sunshine hard confirming a few (And they actually aren't that different in terms of feats so it should be aight) so that honestly takes care of the majority. But at the same time, things like Paper, Mario & Luigi, and spinoffs that clearly work on their own scale or what not (Also Galaxy but that has actual lore reasons, that might just work as a key on the mainline I'd think?), they should probably be different. Of course this should be discussed first so we can reach a consensus on what group of games actually go together.
If workload or what not is an issue, I can cover a few games and help out, and Armor is obviously interested as well, so workload shouldn't be a issue, besides, better to take awhile and have it be the best possible, then do not at all and have it be ass.
c̵a̵n̵t̵ ̵b̵e̵ ̵a̵n̵y̵ ̵h̵a̵r̵d̵e̵r̵ ̵t̵o̵ ̵d̵o̵ ̵t̵h̵a̵n̵ ̵M̵G̵S̵ ̵
Though that's if we go the split route, if we aren't, then it's whatever
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Oh, I forgot to comment on the proposal itself.
It makes me sorta sad but I agree that the 3-C ratings must go. As Armor repeteadly said, this isn't a proposal to change his tier to 9, 8 or 7, and that is to be reserved for a future evaluation, but that 3 needs to go is a sure thing. I can't promise to help but I'll try to contribute if possible, as a fan of the games I should be able to do something at least.
If I were to vote, I dislike both Option A and B. Between the two, A, but I'd rather think of something else. I like the separation and I can see some justifications for it to work, but it feels really arbitrary, as per my previous points.
In any case, I wish good luck for those that are going to work on this, because this is going to be a hard thing to work on. I hope this revision goes as smoothly as possible.
It makes me sorta sad but I agree that the 3-C ratings must go. As Armor repeteadly said, this isn't a proposal to change his tier to 9, 8 or 7, and that is to be reserved for a future evaluation, but that 3 needs to go is a sure thing. I can't promise to help but I'll try to contribute if possible, as a fan of the games I should be able to do something at least.
If I were to vote, I dislike both Option A and B. Between the two, A, but I'd rather think of something else. I like the separation and I can see some justifications for it to work, but it feels really arbitrary, as per my previous points.
In any case, I wish good luck for those that are going to work on this, because this is going to be a hard thing to work on. I hope this revision goes as smoothly as possible.
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Ok so, 3-C is mainly supported from Power Stars, which are 4-A, as noticed in this list
vsbattles.fandom.com
Or also Bowser turning Yoshi's island into a pop-up book containing stars.
Unless I missed something about Power Stars scaling not being usable anymore, 3-C being something just in Galaxy is definitely not true and these levels are showcased from much older games.
Super Mario: Feats List
vsbattles.fandom.com
Or also Bowser turning Yoshi's island into a pop-up book containing stars.
Unless I missed something about Power Stars scaling not being usable anymore, 3-C being something just in Galaxy is definitely not true and these levels are showcased from much older games.
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I was mostly replying to @Pain_to12 for the Varies option as 3-C is definitely NOT an outlier and is actually supported fron the Power Stars, which are something really present in Mario games.
Pikaman
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Ah right k
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Mario is not Godzilla because he is the exact same character just in different games.
Just put the varies tier and keep the P&A we already have
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- Thread starter
- #388
The same character playing different roles. It'd be like compositing Indiana Jones and Han Solo. If we accept stats change then we must accept abilities can too.
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Godzilla is irrelevant here because every story is original and some have their own sagas. They also never reference each other except for the original 1954 movie which is used as the origin in a few sagas.
So yeah, it ain't the same universe, just the same remade character.
So yeah, it ain't the same universe, just the same remade character.
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Which could very well be the case here, that's part of what we are debating.
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I will write my rebuttal and/or considerations later I said. I honestly dislike both options, but I would prefer Option B over Option A overall. I still strongly agree they're all the same canon as even Eficiente even if he agrees with profile splits still agrees them being treated as same character/canon but over the course of different time periods.
There are also criticisms with option B, given Mario is simply inconsistent; he's not like Hulk where there's a lore based "His power varies via being angrier" or other Empathy based powers or Superman being stronger based of his "Solar battery genetics physiology" It's just writers/programmers themselves being contradictory to each other where little to none of them care about powerscaling/battleboarding in general. But if anything, there are few and showings statements about getting stronger via progression but clearly no statements getting weaker but just showings via game to game portrayal. RPG games specifically have the level up systems albeit level 1 reverts next games. And common plots of Mario being fodder against main villain/final boss but then later becomes their equal. And the other is taking the DK Rap lyrics "He's Bigger, Faster, and Stronger Too!" But there are still counter arguments against that too. And the biggest issue about the "Getting stronger via progression" is that Partners and Time kind of made the baby versions of the Mario bros just as strong as the adult versions. Kind of confirming the power levels tend to be back and forth.
As I said before, I'm slowly but surely repeatedly losing interest in debating Mario's tiers via repeated topics, exhaustion, the fact that all the real Mario experts such as Dino Ranger Black left the wiki resulting in the same downward spiral that discussions (Not just Content Revisions) that several other verses such as LoZ and MLP have been going through. The actual "Downgrades/Upgrades" and what not are actually the least of the issue, but just talking about the verses in general just doesn't seem fun anymore.
But one of the main things I will expand upon is perhaps remind us all why the continuity is just one big continuity and while Cosmic lore and stuff should still carry over even if we assume Mario cast get stronger as they exercise/adventure but weaken when they've been sit around outside of adventures that we either do Option A making separate pages/keys for different periods, or option B with just having variable tiers. But variable tiers within a single key should not try to make the gaps too extensive; not something like Tier 9/8 to Tier 2. But I better get to that later. I just need to gather my scans for each canon connection claim.
But I will say this, anything below Building level is pure downplay. Even fodder enemies such as Goombas, Koopa Troopas, and Monty Moles have fairly consistent Building level feats, there are giant blocks in World 4 of SMB3 where fragmenting would get 9-A. Mario also one-shots Banzai Bills who consistently pile through giant sections of brick blocks that would get now lower than Tier 8. And I'd argue anything below Tier 7 amongst the Seven Star Children is also out of the question for the most part as Bob-Ombs do have Tier 7 explosion feats, though inconsistent given some survive their own explosions while most are still glass cannons.
I also think this statement is also even more blatant, but we are definitely not upgrading every single fodder enemy to the level of Mario. No galaxy level lava, no galaxy level galaxy level bombs/fire arms especially ones not magical/supernatural in nature, and things like "Throwing objects to harm a high tiered character" is something we give credit to the throwers and not the objects being thrown unless there's some mystical nature surrounding object in question.
But who knows, I might be able to come up with some solution. But when I explain the canonicity reminders, I will propose some conditional branches for any possible variables and/or profile splits via eras/sub-series/spin-offs. But given me time to explain them later.
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I definitely agree with this for the record, absolute minimum we can have the Mario cast at IMO is High 8-C, probably 8-B or 8-A, I know Bowser has a 8-A durability feat in Super Princess Peach, PM64 has a High 8-C feat, and generally there's a lot of relatively casual tier 8 feats, plus a lot of the anti-feats I gathered double as feats.
I'm as not sure about this tbh, Bob-Ombs are inconsistent in terms of their explosion potency and mechanics, but there's def a debate to be made.
Looking forward to it, though at the moment I still believe in separate canons.
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I think tiering should be left for later, if we go with Option A some versions would be way higher than tier 8 while others might just be tier 9 (Mario Kart I don't think has any better feats than that)
Lou_change
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Alright if I understand what is happening we are proposing splitting Mario and most of the main cast into a bunch of profiles. The games reference each other quite often, sometimes there is evidence that they are playing their own games reminder the Mario cast is described as a cast of actors but they always play the same characters as the difficulty of figuring out anything close to an accurate way to find what each version should consist of. I think a Varies or just assuming their holding back somehow would be more reasonable.
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Assuming they're holding back wouldn't make sense.
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Yeah no, you can't just discard this just because is shown less, as long as it makes sense in the context is valid lol.
Pikaman
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Are we... still not all in agreement 3-C is an outlier?
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