Possible addition of the ability “Creation” to Michael Demiurgos

[VeryGoofyToddler]

So after reading some character's profiles because of the fact the revision is soon to take place. I couldn't help but notice some things that seemed quite off.

It has to do with the ability of “Creation.”

Creation

Creation is the ability to create something from nothing, without manipulating existing things. The user can create organic or inorganic matter from nothing either as finished objects or simply unfinished elements. As long as it can be defined as object, the user has the power to make it...

vsbattles.fandom.com

The short synopsis that was provided to be granting this tier is:

The ability to create anything from nothing.

So when I checked Perpetua's profile she seems to have it due to the fact she has supposedly created some things. The problem I see with this is when did she “create” from nothing?

• For one she didn't even create the Multiverse. The material needed to form the Multiverse came from the Unseen Hand pulling the materials from the Source.

...and from The Source, the raw materials of a Multiverse were pulled together by an Unseen Hand.

• Not to mention the Totality isn't the power to create the Multiverse. It is simply the powers that Perpetua hoarded for herself.

No. This wall will be the prison for the totality of power you have selfishly hoarded.

None of what she has was the ability to create from nothing. Unless we count other references such as matter manipulation or reality warping.

So it's confusing how Michael Demiurgos does not have the ability that is highlighted with his name. “Demiurgos” which roughly translates to craftsmen or creator from its Latin origin.

However, the biggest takeaway from this is that the comics straight-up mention it's the only power capable of creating from nothing.

Only the Demiurgic Power, bestowed by God himself, could bring a new Cosmos out if the endless, beginningless nothing.

This is quite relevant because Yahweh is the God of the Covenant and Creation. His Demiurgic Power is the power of Creation itself.

The God of the Covenant. The God of the Creation.

Here are some more references of Michael or at least when his in possession of the Demiurgic Power where he can create and destroy anything.

God has vested in you the Demiurgic Power. The word of fire that builds and breaks.

Ah! The Void. Now I understand. You have taken me outside of Creation. A controlled denotation then.

General, it's true. Lucifer slew Michael, the Demiurge, and in his death birthed a new Cosmos beyond the Gates.

He is made of Will, as your father Michael is made of power.

For everything else that was made, they were his intermediaries. Michael’s Demiurgic Power gave birth to the first matter and Lucifer’s Will shaped it into suns.

There is a power within me. The Dunamis Demiurgos. God’s Power. When I die it will pour out of me and overwhelm everything that exists.

But my father gave me a gift, before he died. The gift of fire. The fire of the Forge which creates. The fire of the torch, which always waste and destroys.


Sufficed to say I think we should add that as an ability to Michael

 

[Elizio33]

Removing Creation from Perpetua's profiles and adding it to Michael Demiurgos with the demiurgic powers seems fine to me.

 

[Robo432343]

Agreed

 

[VeryGoofyToddler]

Removing Creation from Perpetua's profiles and adding it to Michael Demiurgos with the demiurgic powers seems fine to me.

Some people claim that Perpetua is a Demiurge but there are some problems.

1. The Demiurges are second only to their Creator. Essentially a 2nd God who can take control of Creation if the actual Creators leave such as Elaine.

Perpetua has multiple superiors and her powers aren't the one that builds the Multiverse.

2. The Demiurges can create and destroy on any scale equivalent to Yahweh.

Perpetua could do it on a smaller scale and not on the scale of the Source or the Judges.

She fits the concept of “Sophia” but Scott isn't mixed with Judeo-Christian and Gnosticism like Carey was.

 

[Elizio33]

Some people claim that Perpetua is a Demiurge but there are some problems.

1. The Demiurges are second only to their Creator. Essentially a 2nd God who can take control of Creation if the actual Creators leave such as Elaine.

Perpetua has multiple superiors and her powers aren't the one that builds the Multiverse.

2. The Demiurges can create and destroy on any scale equivalent to Yahweh.

Perpetua could be on a smaller scale and not on the scale of the Source or the Judges.

She fits the concept of “Sophia” but Scott isn't mixed with Judeo-Christian and Gnosticism like Carey was.

Agreed but the Totality is the total amount of power Perpetua hoarded and the multiverse has been sculpted from.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler]

Agreed but the Totality is the total amount of power Perpetua hoarded and the multiverse has been sculpted from.

I did read that carefully but the Multiverse was created prior to her gaining the powers she took. Totality is like a guideline of the Multiverse and connection through the force(Connective and Crisis) that built it. I wouldn't consider it the power of “Creation.” That is specifically the Source power in which Perptua fashion/sculpted the energies/materials into a Multiverse.

Plus it looks more like she created the Multiversal structure because somethings in the Multiverse isn't part of her design except the three domains. The Forges came after the two domains of matter. So it took her some time to use the materials to build the Multiverse. Her sculpting would imply that it was already created it just needs to function as a Multiverse.

The Source and Michael have some similarities they create materials.

Lucifer and Perpetua have no irony in being the rebellious ones who shape those materials. However, they don't create themselves despite loopholes. Like couldn't Lucifer use his own essence to shape it? Michael was created not to shape since Elaine can do both what Lucifer and Michael can.

Like if Michael created the sun he would make all the elements all the way up to iron. It could be formless, dust, clouds, and particles until Lucifer uses his shaping ability to form a shape and the idea of it looking like a bright nubilous star. That's my idea of Perpetua and her ability to make a Multiverse not create a Multiverse even with the Totality.

 

[LuciferX]

Agree with OP.

 

[Deagonx]

Removing Creation from Perpetua's profiles and adding it to Michael Demiurgos with the demiurgic powers seems fine to me.

Agreed, seems fairly straightforward. Perpetua is more like Lucifer in that she shaped material and energy she was given. Michael Demiurgos, on the other hand, literally can "create something from nothing."

 

[Elizio33]

Perpetua's "creation" ability is more likely reality warping since she has to shape what's already there to create something else.

 

[Deagonx]

Perpetua's "creation" ability is more likely reality warping since she has to shape what's already there to create something else.

Yeah. She currently has reality warping so that's fine.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler]

Also we should remove this ability from Alpheus the World Forger as well.

He forms from preexisting ideas. The power to shape over the domain belongs to Perpetua, they are just there to oversee it. Forging worlds from his Anvil in a realm comprised of rich dark matter is hardly creating from nothing.

Alpheus actual power.

 

[Elizio33]

Also we should remove this ability from Alpheus the World Forger as well.

He forms from preexisting ideas. The power to shape over the domain belongs to Perpetua, they are just there to oversee it. Forging worlds from his Anvil in a realm comprised of rich dark matter is hardly creating from nothing.

Alpheus actual power.

True. He just forges all people's hopes and fears in existence. It's not the same as creating something out of nothing. It's also reality warping

 

[VeryGoofyToddler]

Also wouldn’t Michael technically have Immortality Type 5?

As long as he has the Demiurgic Power and he is known as Demiurgos his deathless. An aspect of Eternal would still be eternal until full destruction by the Creator. So unless somehow someone convince Yahweh to destroy Michael, he should be deathless.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Very weird Michael didn't have creation before, as that's supposed to be his signature ability. So yeah, agreed with OP.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler]

Very weird Michael didn't have creation before, as that's supposed to be his signature ability. So yeah, agreed with OP.

The thing was there was a similar thread to this. They closed Michael not gaining the ability because he only generated primal material which somehow doesn’t count as “Creation.”

The difference people tend to forget is how it happened. With Yahweh Creation he already created the space all they needed to do was fill that space. With Lucifer they made everything from scratch. It also literally said to bring about a new cosmos from literal nothing. I don’t know how they miss this due to misinterpretation of text.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler]

Bump. Needless to some more opinions on this subject. Feels empty.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

With Deagon and I accepting it, coupled with this being quite a self-evident case, you should be able to apply this.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler]

With Deagon and I accepting it, coupled with this being quite a self-evident case, you should be able to apply this.

Thanks then you can close the thread.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Remember to ask in the all purpose thread for his profile to be opened.

When applying the change, remember to cite this thread for the reason.

Will be closing now.