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Seems fine at a glance, although since my comment on page 1 I haven’t been keeping up with this thread so u may want to check with some others
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Elaine, Michael, Lucifer, and the Presence Possible 1-C upgrade.
- Thread starter VeryGoofyToddler2
- Start date
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Sounds good, but I wouldn't say the Mansions of Silence have QS over the Silver City. It is just beyond. Heaven and the Silver City were used interchangeably in the story.
Multiverse: 2-A (4-D)
Yahweh's Creation/Totality: Low 1-C (5-D)
City of Stars: Low 1-C (5-D)
Silver City: Low 1-C (6-D)
Mansions of Silence: Low 1-C (6-D)
Archangels: 1-C (7-C)
Godhood: 1-C (8-D)
The Presence: 1-C (8-D)
What do you think ?
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- Thread starter
- #283
Yeah, that seems good. CoS can be straight 1-C and should be slightly above the Dreaming.
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Between Yahweh's Creation and Silver City ?
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- Thread starter
- #285
SoC is an actuality above reality and goes down until you reach Night. The CoS is superior to the Dreaming and Dream as he holds no power over the entire collection. CoS is every star and light in Creation including dark and light stars presumably created by Lucifer and Michael since Morpheus is from Yahweh's Creation.
Also, please fix the Mansions key since it's not actually fragile. It's only fragile in the presence of Lucifer since it's not meant to hold him.
Lucifer and Belgelmir state it pulls on your mind. Will is of the mind and Lucifer's will is infinite and was too heavy/large for the Mansions.
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So I take that as a yes.
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- Thread starter
- #287
Indeed and will you change the Mansions key?
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I don't mind but let's wait for the other members options first.
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- Thread starter
- #289
Here is the reasoning:
You felt the force of those memories, those lives. The tidal pull of them whipping our minds into forth and tatter.
Each Universe as it unfolds exerts a pull on our minds and souls. The the tension between those pulls would prove ultimately have proved fatal.
As we can see the Mansions pull on your “mind” and “soul” hence why it lives off as memories so what seems real isn't what is. The fragile part only comes under one condition: Lucifer:
No, he couldn't. He's never been here. The Mansions couldn't sustain his presence. They're to fragile. That's the only reason he didn't come himself.
What I had to do. The Manions of Silence we're a fragile structure. They were never meant to support my presence.
What did Lucifer say:
Time and Space are extensions of the mind. The Will.
So Lucifer's willpower just by being there as said by “my presence.” It shattered the entire structure because of his will and his mind broke the structure hence why he can never come to it nor has he ever been there.
I don't think this needs to be evaluated because it's proven in the story. The Mansions themselves are not fragile. They only are when in the presence of Lucifer.
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- #290
I don't know how I miss this but the story never used them interchangeably and there are some clear differences between them.
The most obvious is the point that the story literally told us that The City isn't Heaven or Paradise.
The reason why is that one is where the Host lives and where God thrones sit at the Primum Mobile. That's why there are no human souls nor anything other than Angels there.
Heaven is a realm mirroring Hell that serves as an afterlife. When going to the Manions you must pass through Heaven not the Silver City because it's past worlds while the City sits at the Abyss beyond Creation all together.
Also, Heaven is part of the order of created things and serves as a state of mind where one soul create their afterlife. The City is none of that and it's where the Angels live with Yahweh overseeing everything in Creation. It is also much older than Heaven since realms like Heaven didn't exist in the Darkness before Creation and the rebellion happened in the City, not Heaven because it's not a physical place where Angels could fight.
It's clear there two different things.
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- #292
No, the context of it was Lucifer telling Dream that size of things outside the world is meaningless. He says this “realm” is Heaven's reflection and Silver City is not a realm nor a paradise. If it were it would part of the order of created things. Heaven could be part of the City but I doubt they are the same thing.
There are only a few times where it was mentioned such as #63: While in Heaven. However, Carey’s writing always seems to take things out of convenience to make flowery language to describe two things.
However, I'm not going to argue for this point any longer, and we can still keep both to be the same it's fine by me.
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@Elizio33 @Deagonx @catzlaflame
So what currently needs to be done here, and does our DC Comics Cosmology page need to be updated based on this thread?
So what currently needs to be done here, and does our DC Comics Cosmology page need to be updated based on this thread?
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I finished with the edits for the 4 character profiles this would effect. Here’s Lucifer’s page for an example.
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Won’t be able to get to it rn, but I’ll take a look later today or tmr.
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I just checked and the profile has been updated. We can close this thread now.
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I still need to get around to the Cosmology Blog. Speaking of, if you could link the relevant comments regarding the cosmology that were accepted I would appreciate that.
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I believe ant wanted it to be taken care of here. I’m fine either way. Let’s see what he thinks.
@Antvasima
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It seems better to handle the updates to our DC Comics Cosmology page that originate from this thread in this thread instead.
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Understood, will get it done today
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Of course! Could you unlock the page thoThank you for helping out.
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Okay, I had sat down to apply the revisions, but after reading all the replies in this thread I've come to realize something. The points which would actually affect the cosmology were discussed almost entirely after most of the discussion.
Particularly, the proposal that seemed to have been the general consensus of the thread was scaling Luci/Michale/Elaine relative to Yahweh. This can be noted in this comment, and the ones directly following it.
From here, @VeryGoofyToddler made the following comment:
and the rest of the thread divulged into a discussion about the Dreaming, Creation, and the Mansions of Silence.
Basically @Antvasima , I do not believe the primary discussion of the thread would actually affect the cosmology blog, but rather, the discussion that occured after staff input... idk if that will affect your decison on whether or not I should apply this, but its probably worth mentioning just to be safe.
In any case, hypothetically, the biggest change to the blog would be:
Would become:
I did not actually see any staff agree to the above point (they only agreed to scaling angels to yahweh). Would you still like me to make the edits?
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No one has technically disagreed with it. They're asking why it is contained within Creation which I have provided much of the info as responses and the other thread is a very direct mention of why.
This thread is for the upgrade. Most of this topic went off-topic because I mentioned how Creation should be scaled and how it works much better like that with the Lucifer and Michael scaling rather than what we have now.
This thread is for the upgrade. Most of this topic went off-topic because I mentioned how Creation should be scaled and how it works much better like that with the Lucifer and Michael scaling rather than what we have now.
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I mean I only saw 3 or so other people discussing it to begin with… all of whom aren’t staff, and I kinda feel dishonest applying something as big as a jump from 2-A to Low-1C with 0 staff input.
Apologies if it appears as though I am stonewalling.
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It's alright but I'm just asking what people think. I was “suggesting” it since it made sense.
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I'm still fine with the Low 1-C change
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I think 1-C would be ideal for these names. Given that there are other realms (dream, hell, heaven, ygdrasil, etc.) that qualitatively transcend the multiverse, creation as a whole must be Low 1-C.
It must be 6D in Silver City 6D, where God's throne and words are located, and which precedes and transcends creation, and Mansions Of The Silence beyond it. We've seen Lucifer and Michael damage and destroy these places effortlessly, and the brothers are irrelevantly superior to these places.
Lucifer and Michael=7D
Elaine and Yahweh=8D
Void=9D
This should have been simple.
It must be 6D in Silver City 6D, where God's throne and words are located, and which precedes and transcends creation, and Mansions Of The Silence beyond it. We've seen Lucifer and Michael damage and destroy these places effortlessly, and the brothers are irrelevantly superior to these places.
Lucifer and Michael=7D
Elaine and Yahweh=8D
Void=9D
This should have been simple.
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Me too.
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Also, we should remove the weakness of the Dunamis Demiurgos for Michael. Elaine took her father's power and is in every way equal yet she can both create and shape with the guidance of Lucifer.
Michael is loyal to Yahweh and he told him to create and he did so. It's not because he cannot “shape” or else what would be the use of Lucifer? In many of the stories we also see “Michael” will working in Creation and that he made most of the abstract concept by writing Yahweh's name in it all.
In conclusion, he doesn't have a “weakness” being the Demiurge is different from being the Lightbringer. The Demiurge is literally like being a second God and Elaine did it. That's why the very power was capable of hushing Lucifer's rebellion and the third of the Host.
Some may argue “Oh he cannot shape what he has created.” However, Elaine disapproves of this and Michael was created undiluted to doing his task and that only. Lucifer says “supply what each other lack.” He, however, wasn't referring to Michael's incapability of shaping but rather the need for Lucifer and Michael to work in tandem.
Michael is loyal to Yahweh and he told him to create and he did so. It's not because he cannot “shape” or else what would be the use of Lucifer? In many of the stories we also see “Michael” will working in Creation and that he made most of the abstract concept by writing Yahweh's name in it all.
In conclusion, he doesn't have a “weakness” being the Demiurge is different from being the Lightbringer. The Demiurge is literally like being a second God and Elaine did it. That's why the very power was capable of hushing Lucifer's rebellion and the third of the Host.
Some may argue “Oh he cannot shape what he has created.” However, Elaine disapproves of this and Michael was created undiluted to doing his task and that only. Lucifer says “supply what each other lack.” He, however, wasn't referring to Michael's incapability of shaping but rather the need for Lucifer and Michael to work in tandem.
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Okay, so is this concluded now?
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Yes, idk if Ant closed the blog tho.
This is not relevant to the original purpose of the thread. Please save this for another time. Trust me when I say this thread is already long enough as it is.
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The thread is avhohyt do close. I was adding some last stuff, which is not swaying too far from the original topic. Anyways we’ll have to wait for Ant.
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