Pokemon God Tiers Downgrade (or Upgrade?)

[Sera_EX]

I'm going to keep this simple. Why on Earth is "number of game copies sold" part of the justification for 2-B Pokemon? Matt and I strongly opposed this, so I'm surprised it was actually accepted. Please, I'd like reliable in-universe justifications for Multiversal Pokemon, thank you.

 

[Dark649]

The number of the copies phrase could be reworked as that the universes can interact with each other via the Global Link rather than the cartridges.

 

[ZephyrosOmega]

P sure each game is confirmed its own timeline but idk

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Mostly because other games are recognized as alternate universes, mostly through the Entralink in Gen V and the plot of ORAS.

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

Uh oh, Cal isn't gonna like this.

 

[Sera_EX]

Confirmed by who?

 

[ZephyrosOmega]

basically what saikou said

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

In-game characters commenting on it, saying that the Entralink lets you access other universes. And said alternate universes correspond to other copy of the games.

I don't have the exact quote though, and we'd probably need that.

 

[Sera_EX]

We can't use the exact number of copies as the number of universes.

 

[ZephyrosOmega]

We can't use the exact number of copies as the number of universes.

I don't see why not, if each game is its own universe

 

[AnonymousBlank]

Should it not be each game released rather than each copy?

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

@Anonymous The Entralink lets you access other copy of the same game, not just the other version of the game.

 

[Sera_EX]

Each game released is fine, number of games sold is not.

 

[ZephyrosOmega]

Should it not be each game released rather than each copy?

That wouldn't make sense, since you also connect to other copies of the same game through entralink and such

 

[Assaltwaffle]

Each game released is fine, number of games sold is not.

That would work except you can link to other copies of the same version, and such copies are described as universes.

 

[ZephyrosOmega]

Let's see what cal thinks as well.

 

[Sera_EX]

Nope. Pokemon Sun and Pokemon Moon being two universes is okay, like routes in an RPG. But number of copies is not a solid number. People are buying these games as we speak.

 

[SomebodyData]

The real question is why do we assume that Arceus created the entire multiverse, instead of each individual one having their own Arceus

@Sera I dunno, the implication is kinda there and pretty sure was stated.

 

[Assaltwaffle]

However, the Reflection Cave isn't a good justification for 2-B, since it's actually shown to lead to an alternate version of the world and that going through that version's Reflection Cave doesn't take you to another universe, but rather the original.

Basically, each alternate universe doesn't lead to another alternate, but rather the original.

 

[ZephyrosOmega]

Nope. Pokemon Sun and Pokemon Moon being two universes is okay, like routes in an RPG. But number of copies is not a solid number. People are buying these games as we speak.

Exactly, making the amount of universes AT LEAST 300 million or however many those games have sold. those are just ones people haven't connected to yet.

Also IIRC, the ultra wormholes are also their own universes in sun and moon and there's a lot of those

 

[Rocker1189]

This is probably thhe weirdest way I have ever seen AP get decided lol

 

[ZephyrosOmega]

let me remind everyone.

"First, we know that Pokémon has a sort of metafictional detail in which every game sold is it's own universe, and that knowledge alone puts the number at 293+ million (Only to increase with US/UM). This is confirmed with the knowledge of the Link Cable (what was used for interdimensional communication in OR/AS) and the Entralink.

Each of those have countless alternative universes, accessible by Ultra Wormholes.

Each of those have multiple timelines from the past or future, which have been confirmed to exist when time travelling with Celebi, who has gone to the past quite often (as well as the future), and is said to come from the future.. Plus, future tech is talked about quite frequently in that July lore drop.

And each of those has Bronzong's dimension to summon clouds, a Spirit World confirmed by Dusknoir's Pokédex entry, the Dream World, the Interdream Zone, the many things involving Hoopa, and the dimension that Mega Gengar slips into (which is likely the same one Haunter is said to come from)"

@assaltwaffle I do agree though, mirror cave isn't a good justification

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I'll insert quotes soon enough...

 

[Sera_EX]

The real question is why do we assume that Arceus created the entire multiverse, instead of each individual one having their own Arceus

@Sera I dunno, the implication is kinda there and pretty sure was stated.

I understand that but it still comes off as strange to me.

 

[Kaltias]

Tbh I personally don't have an issue with number of copies = universes if that's what is implied, but the blog for the levels of 2-B really needs some scans, videos etc, because as it stands right now, a newcomer can't really find any evidence for 2-B Creation Trio looking at the pages

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

If you understand then why'd you make the thread? Several things of say, SMT come off as strange to me but since I understand it, I wouldn't make a thread on it.

 

[Assaltwaffle]

The Pokemon Multiverse is undoubtably 2-B. The only question is whether the CT pervade the entire Multiverse as a single entity, or are unique to each individual universe.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

However, the Reflection Cave isn't a good justification for 2-B, since it's actually shown to lead to an alternate version of the world and that going through that version's Reflection Cave doesn't take you to another universe, but rather the original.

Basically, each alternate universe doesn't lead to another alternate, but rather the original.

This I agree with.

 

[ZephyrosOmega]

this actually brings of a seperate point, but at what point does "Countless" equal "Infinite"? Cause that's the same justification that makes PMMM god tiers 2-A, but Creation Trio 2-B

 

[Andytrenom]

I agree with Kal about the blog thing. get off your lazy butt and create a proper explanation blog already Cal

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

PMMM is 2-A because they have a direct statement of infinite universes.

 

[RKGenki]

PMMM statement

Now let's stop derailing

 

[Kaltias]

The Pokemon Multiverse is undoubtably 2-B. The only question is whether the CT pervade the entire Multiverse as a single entity, or are unique to each individual universe.

Dunno about pervading it, but there is a quote about Palkia creating all the universes, i'll see if I can find it

 

[Executor_N0]

I have this

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I already have it. There's also the statement of Arceus breathing alone in the multiverse, and that one's in TMR's blog.

Giratina also has something supporting it in US/UM, but it's slightly iffy.

 

[Executor_N0]

this have all the Creation Trio Myth scans. The blog is in portuguese, but the scans are in english.

 

[Assaltwaffle]

None of that means much aside from universe creation aside from Palkia's statement of being the maker of parallel universes. That one is pretty good, though.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I have the Entralink quote if anyone wants it, btw.

 

[Assaltwaffle]

I have the Entralink quote if anyone wants it, btw.

I think the Entralink is pretty much already proven, but if you have it go ahead and drop it. Can't hurt.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Entralink

"Oh, someone showed up... Welcome to the Entralink."

"Hm?"

"Judging by the look of you, you don't seem to know where you are."

"This is an island called the Entralink. It's located in the center of the Unova region."

"The Entralink is a mysterious place where you can connect with someone's world."

"If you go to someone's world by passing through this island, you will be able to meet an adventurer in the world."