Placeholder for the upcoming Kefla upgrades

[Peter1129]

The manga where Whis said SSG Goku > 1/10th of Weakened Vegeta SSB

But didn't the manga say Vegeta wasnt even able to use 1/10th of his power and not he was only able to use 1/10th of his power? Or was people just going for the at least x10.

 

[Warren_Valion]

Well, Blue was "Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan' originally, so 50 times the power of SSG is reasonable

It's actually greater than 50x stronger because of how God Goku got trashed by Kefla, but Blue Goku was about equals with her.

But besides that wasn't Blue called Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan because of the look of it's design, and not an accurate representation on how strong the form is?


And when I say that the difference in power is unreasonable is because the difference between Super Saiyan God and Super Saiyan Blue never seemed so large before.

I think that's primarily because of the multiplier stated in the manga and because Goku uses Blue against everybody , and so my notions are that it's not that big of a difference, like 5-10x stronger than God max.


But if the difference in strength is consistent with another showing, or that the multiplier is actually stated to be greater than 50x, then I'll concede that the difference is really that much.

 

[SuperKamiNappa]

Just downgrade everyone, except Zeno, to 3-A and there we go.

The problem with that is that Infinite Zamasu and UI GOku have raw feats beyond 3-A.


Also why are we even talking about multipliers for SSB when we don't even except SSJ multipliers in the first place?

 

[Chartate101]

Well, Blue was "Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan' originally, so 50 times the power of SSG is reasonable

It's actually greater than 50x stronger because of how God Goku got trashed by Kefla, but Blue Goku was about equals with her.
But besides that wasn't Blue called Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan because of the look of it's design, and not an accurate representation on how strong the form is?


And when I say that the difference in power is unreasonable is because the difference between Super Saiyan God and Super Saiyan Blue never seemed so large before.

I think that's primarily because of the multiplier stated in the manga and because Goku uses Blue against everybody , and so my notions are that it's not that big of a difference, like 5-10x stronger than God max.


But if the difference in strength is consistent with another showing, or that the multiplier is actually stated to be greater than 50x, then I'll concede that the difference is really that much.

Could be more than 50x. But they wouldn't make a form that has SSJ in it is its weaker than SSB.


Is there a source that says that? I remeber someone calling SSB "SSG with the power of a SSJ"/


Agreed. Powerscaling DBZ is S*** sometimes.


The manga is of greater canonity than the anime imo. The manga is just an adaptaion of an adaptaion of Toriama's manuscript.

 

[Edgar81539]

And it seems I was right about you guys jumping the gun. At no point in the fight was she able to hit Goku, and Goku managed to make quite a lot of damage with simple ki bursts and punches, and even those were weak since he couldn't adapt to using Ultra Instinct while attacking (should add that for the Ultra Instinct profile if it matters I guess). When he got serious and hit her with a Kamehameha, she was done for. So, 3-A it is.

 

[Akreious]

Actually, Goku was originally getting stronger and faster in his fight with Jiren so no. My guess is that he isn't trying to go full out or is only semi-in Ultra Instinct during this as the stakes are much lower. If Goku is going for the kill in any other circumstance, he wouldn't hold back or think about his punches really. The difference in circumstance is different as well; Goku was just almost killed by his own spirit bomb and Jiren royally whooped is ass; someone who can fight 100% UI Goku. Kaulifa (Or what evs her name is) is a friend to Goku and it looks to me he barely broke his limiter. I mean, he didn't immediately blitz her and actually talked a little.

And yeah she's still 3-A, she got whooped.

 

[Peter1129]

Actually Kefla is probably becoming Low 2-C now. She's got enough feats in Episode 116.

 

[Edgar81539]

Are you sure you know how much power and what kind of feats you need to demonstrate in order to jump a tier? She has no feats to say she's 2-C, and she has no scaling to back up that claim. It's like trying to say that Vegito is an universe buster just because he was incredibly stronger than Super Buu when even though he was stronger, he had no feats or the scaling to jump a tier.

 

[Peter1129]

See for yourself here's the upgrade thread. https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/1121031

And that's all c ya.

 

[Super_Saiyan_God_Julian]

She is now Low 2-C. Look at her profile to see the justificacion.

 

[Tyranno223]

I dunno about this upgrade, I mean Beerus did say how Goku didn't have enough stamina for more than one attack, so I kinda feel like that was more of an issue than Kefla's attacks, plus there's this image which shows him to be weaker than earlier

 

[Aizenishere]

@Edgar. Let it go man. This is a ride you don't wanna be on.

 

[AKM sama]

I personally think this should upgrade SSB Vegito too.

Base Vegito > Base Kefla

It only makes sense that

ssj2 Vegito > ssj2 Kefla

 

[Ovrhide]

Who would have though that a joke about kefla being low 2-C would have become reality. We might as well joke that jirens true powers are near that of an angel. Maybe it will come true.

 

[Super_Saiyan_God_Julian]

I personally think this should upgrade SSB Vegito too.

Base Vegito > Base Kefla

It only makes sense that

ssj2 Vegito > ssj2 Kefla

Of course it makes sense.


But the DBS Anime apparently doesn't think so due to its insistence of making Kefla comparable to UI Goku.

 

[AKM sama]

That only means ssj2 Vegito would've been comparable to UI Goku

 

[Aizenishere]

But Goku is one half of Vegito.... Huh???? If a fusion is the strongest versions of its fusioness x whatever the **** (clearly after this episode) then Base Vegito should ******* MOP THE FLOOR with Kefla considering HALF of what Vegito is obliterated her.

 

[Super_Saiyan_God_Julian]

I sound like a broken stereo at this point...


The problem is that Vegito has shown zero feats,statements or scaling for him to be reliably placed at Low 2-C. He should be logically be superior to Kefla but this episode proved that's not the case.


Vegito could at best be given a Low 2-C and his justificacion being "should be comparable to Kefla due to his fusses being stronger" but thats not likely.

 

[Therefir]

I personally think this should upgrade SSB Vegito too.
Base Vegito > Base Kefla

It only makes sense that

ssj2 Vegito > ssj2 Kefla

??? Kefla was transformed in berserker ssj2, don't forget that kale berserker trashed ssj blue goku.

 

[Aizenishere]

I personally think this should upgrade SSB Vegito too.
Base Vegito > Base Kefla

It only makes sense that

ssj2 Vegito > ssj2 Kefla

??? Kefla was transformed in berserker ssj2, don't forget that kale berserker trashed ssj blue goku.

and a version of Kale that was supposedely stronger got trashed with her sister by SSJ God. your point?

 

[Aizenishere]

@Julian. No m8 I understand. I'm just throwing in m 2 cents on the "logically part" I get why upgrades arent coming through

 

[Super_Saiyan_God_Julian]

@Aizenishere

I get you dude. It wasn't directed at you particularly.

 

[Therefir]

and a version of Kale that was supposedely stronger got trashed with her sister by SSJ God. your point?

Goku become stronger after using UI.

 

[Aizenishere]

and a version of Kale that was supposedely stronger got trashed with her sister by SSJ God. your point?

Goku become stronger after using UI.

Exactly. You were responding to someone that said SSJ2 Vegito shouls equal SSJ2 Kefla and you pointed out Kales Berserker form. I'm pointing out Goku is stronger now so if he fused with Vegeta it wouldn't be too far off the mark to say SSJ2 Vegito = SSJ2 Kefla


@Julian ahh gotcha.

 

[Golden_Void]

Goku was in base SSB when he resisted the spirit bomb.

That means full power SSB Goku > SSJ Kefla, evidence by him abusing her and even blitzing her once with just normal kaioken.

 

[Aizenishere]

I thought we already knew that though..

 

[Golden_Void]

People are saying SSB KKx20, kaioken only contributed to push the spirit bomb, Goku resisted it in normal SSB. and didn't contribute any of his own energy to it.

 

[Tsubasa16]

People are saying SSB KKx20, kaioken only contributed to push the spirit bomb, Goku resisted it in normal SSB. and didn't contribute any of his own energy to it.

The moment the Spirit Bomb is becoming a black-hole thing, the shiny point representing Goku was shining in both red and blue, Also, Goku by standard always puts his own energy in the Spirit Bomb, it's his own energy + others. The power of the Spirit Bomb itself was higher than SSBKK20X Goku's because the very reason he used it was because he saw that the form was being useless against Jiren and assumed the Spirit Bomb was the remaing trump card to defeat him and actually made Jiren really try to deflect it.

 

[Golden_Void]

The moment the Spirit Bomb is becoming a black-hole thing, the shiny point representing Goku was shining in both red and blue, Also, Goku by standard always puts his own energy in the Spirit Bomb, it's his own energy + others. The power of the Spirit Bomb itself was higher than SSBKK20X Goku's because the very reason he used it was because he saw that the form was being useless against Jiren and assumed the Spirit Bomb was the remaing trump card to defeat him.

1. Proof

2. It also contained energy from Frieza, Gohan, Piccolo, androids, humans, etc, but he still resisted it in normal SSB.

 

[RoyGundam]

Low 2-C Kefla making a 3-A statement made my day

 

[Tsubasa16]

The moment the Spirit Bomb is becoming a black-hole thing, the shiny point representing Goku was shining in both red and blue, Also, Goku by standard always puts his own energy in the Spirit Bomb, it's his own energy + others. The power of the Spirit Bomb itself was higher than SSBKK20X Goku's because the very reason he used it was because he saw that the form was being useless against Jiren and assumed the Spirit Bomb was the remaing trump card to defeat him.

1. Proof
2. It also contained energy from Frieza, Gohan, Piccolo, androids, humans, etc, but he still resisted it in normal SSB.

Goku literally says that he was unable to believe that even 20x Kaio-ken Super Saiyan Blue was unable to damage Jiren and said he was going to use his trump card against him, and was really confident that it was going to work. It makes no sense him saying and doing such a thing if the Spirit Bomb wasn't stronger than his 20x kaio-ken form. There also the fact that the Spirit Bomb's energy made him awake Ultra Instinct instead of fully damaging him.

 

[Golden_Void]

That's not what I was asking proof for. And he did resist it in normal SSB, which awakened UIO.

 

[Aizenishere]

Isn't it as simple as.. He survived a spirit bomb which = SSJ Kefla so therefore

SSBKKx??? = SSJ Kefla.

Considering as Rice pointed out SSBKK blitzed SSJ Kefla and even damaged her.

 

[Aizenishere]

Low 2-C Kefla making a 3-A statement made my day

Ikr?

 

[Ovrhide]

Well, having a low 2-C kefla and a 3-A Vegito Blue is kinda weird. But kefla did back up her power with feats, something vegito blue lacks.

 

[Super_Saiyan_God_Julian]

@Ovrhide

Yeah it's kind of weird. This is why I called out Kefla being stronger than Vegito an inconsistency but it is what the show is showing us.

 

[Aizenishere]

I mean... what the show is showing us is the next time Vegito makes an appearance shit is gonna go DOWN

 

[Super_Saiyan_God_Julian]

If UI Vegito really does appear then he would definitely be waaaayyy stronger than Kefla no questions asked.

 

[Tsubasa16]

@Ovrhide
Yeah it's kind of weird. This is why I called out Kefla being stronger than Vegito an inconsistency but it is what the show is showing us.

Well, Vegito is obviously, going by logic, stronger than her, but we just can't change his Tier with only this justification, we need to wait for him to shown up again first, if he does, and do the same level of feats, if not better.

 

[Aizenishere]

I'm hyped for the matchup/ whenever it may come.. which it will damnit!