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Part 1 Naruto AP Revisions

Wrath Of Itachi said:
So even if the bear wasn't running, we can calc the full running speed and scale it to sasuke for knocking it out? Should the calc be redone?
Click to expand...
Probably, unless there is a problem I'm missing.
 
From what I can see from the site in general, it can honestly go either way whether we list AP of a summon alongside their normal ap
 
Since Gamabunta has his own profile, I don't think it is necessary to list it in the AP section.
 
I mean, most pokemon have their own profiles, as do many many summons. It would be listed in AP because... well, tier is the first thing people look at, and if they see he can summon a tier 6 toad they don't make the match or restrict it.
 
I'll check the bear calc tonight to see if it needs remaking. From what I can tell at first glance, the scaling puts the bear to be bigger than it actually is.
 
IIRC Shukaku is actually weakened and slowly regaining his power while fighting against Gamabunta, so I will try to find a scan and probably downgrade Gamabunta to 7-A.
 
Damage3245 said:
I'll check the bear calc tonight to see if it needs remaking. From what I can tell at first glance, the scaling puts the bear to be bigger than it actually is.
Click to expand...
How big is it then??
 
Wrath Of Itachi said:
The bear feat is not valid. The calc assumes the bear is running, when we can clearly see he isn't.
Click to expand...
If I remember the comments, someone already brought this up. The rating is not because he stopped the bear, but because the bear should be able to produce that much energy using the normal top speed of a bear applied to it's size, which would obviously not hurt him unlike Sasuke's kick.

Edit: Am a big dumbdumb, didn't see Ricsi's reply to this already.
 
I don't think that logic really works though.

Obviously just running normally isn't going to hurt you; but you ran head-first into a wall at top speed, you'd probably be knocked out.

So Sasuke kicking it in the head doesn't necessarily scale to the bear's hypothetical kinetic energy. Only to the amount of energy the bear had when he stopped it.
 
I think Ricsi makes sense tbh. I mean Sasuke's kick has to be above the durability of the bear to knock him out right? That durability is enough for it not to die by running lol. So I think it makes sense tbh
 
Damage3245 said:
I don't think that logic really works though.
Obviously just running normally isn't going to hurt you; but you ran head-first into a wall at top speed, you'd probably be knocked out.

So Sasuke kicking it in the head doesn't necessarily scale to the bear's hypothetical kinetic energy. Only to the amount of energy the bear had when he stopped it.
Click to expand...
Again, why would we not assume a bear is capable of what normal bears are?

Because I can tell you that the thick skull and pelt of a bear won't let it be knocked out by accidentally running into something.
 
UchihaSlayer96 said:
I think Ricsi makes sense tbh. I mean Sasuke's kick has to be above the durability of the bear to knock him out right? That durability is enough for it not to die by running lol. So I think it makes sense tbh
Click to expand...
If you ran head-first into a spike in the wall, you'd die. So the argument of "We can scale Sasuke's AP by assuming the bear's running speed" isn't very convincing.
 
Well Sasuke didn't stab him with a spike. He kicked him in the head, which as far as I know doesn't negate durability or anything. And again real life bears can survive bullet wounds and car crashes as I mentioned above. So the blunt force trauma produced by the kick must be higher than the bear's durability.
 
I don't see what most of that has to actually do with my point. You can't get the durability of the bear just by assuming its running speed.

Someone running is not going to tell you their durability; they have to actually survive something or tank something. You do agree that there is a different between you running, and you running straight into a very small, narrow point, yes?
 
Why not? Real world bears can take running into a head first without getting knocked out, or really harmed at all. Sasuke's leg might be small, but it was not small enough to act like a blade and didn't hit any specific points, so his One-shotting attack can't be much weaker than the amount of force it should be able to shrug off.
 
Damage3245 said:
I don't see what most of that has to actually do with my point. You can't get the durability of the bear just by assuming its running speed.

Someone running is not going to tell you their durability; they have to actually survive something or tank something. You do agree that there is a different between you running, and you running straight into a very small, narrow point, yes?
Click to expand...
Me, a feeble human? Of course. I'd get one shot by a wall or a spike or practically anything.

But a bear is a different story all together lol. Again they can survive bullet wounds, and it doesn't get smaller or more narrow than that I think. Anyway I'll stop arguing now because I don't know any other details about this calc. But I am personally convinced about the durability of bears, they're tough as hell.
 
@Rocker1189; narrow in relation to the bear's body / huge size.

Means a lot less force is required to do damage.
 
Damage3245 said:
@Rocker1189; narrow in relation to the bear's body / huge size.
Means a lot less force is required to do damage.
Click to expand...
Not if said body part is tougher than the rest of the body.
 
Damage3245 said:
@Rocker1189; narrow in relation to the bear's body / huge size.
Means a lot less force is required to do damage.
Click to expand...
I don't personally follow this.

The beard was knocked out and knocked down. If he had dealt anything more than superficial damage I'd get you, but this isn't the case.
 
@LSirLancefulotDuLacl; I'll have to get into it more tomorrow after I've double-checked the calc, and possibly involve a few calc group members once I've gathered my points together but basically I don't think that the argument for kinetic energy of running = durability to carry much weight.

A person can be hurt by their own kinetic energy, meaning it can surpass their durability. Scaling their durability to just how quickly we assume them to be travel doesn't work unless there is support for it, and surface area is also important when considering the scaling of focused AP to durability.
 
I get what you mean, but this isn't something just being applied willy nilly. The assumption is that this bear is no different from another bear, besides size and what that sizes implicates. Other things having AP that surpasses their durability is a non issue because we know Bears are hardy enough to take a ram into something like a wall with their full speed and barely get any damage. This is not an statement in general, but for this species in specific.
 
Damage3245 said:
@LSirLancefulotDuLacl; I'll have to get into it more tomorrow after I've double-checked the calc, and possibly involve a few calc group members once I've gathered my points together but basically I don't think that the argument for kinetic energy of running = durability to carry much weight.

A person can be hurt by their own kinetic energy, meaning it can surpass their durability. Scaling their durability to just how quickly we assume them to be travel doesn't work unless there is support for it, and surface area is also important when considering the scaling of focused AP to durability.
Click to expand...
Again, we assume the animal is equal in capabilities to its lesser and smaller equivalents. That automatically throws out "a person", because most animals have a thick enough skull, pelt and neck muscles to tank charging at something and other blunt trauma over they head.

At most you could argue that Sasuke somewhat down scales from it, but the feat can't really be much superior to Sasuke without some problems arising. People can be easily knocked out due to weakling nerves they have and the likes, there is no magic place you can hit a bear to knock it away like that.
 
It'll be redone today and hopefully evaluated today too. You can start making the profiles for the Part 1 characters in a sandbox without waiting for that though.
 
True, but depending on the value of the feat it could be in a different tier so I'd rather not have to go back and reedit the profiles. Though I can make the ones for characters that dont scale to the feat.
 
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