P2 Naruto AP Upgrade (+Changes to related characters)

[Maverick_Zero_X]

The proposals seem fine.

I'd say Occam's Razor sides with me on this. The statement quite simply says the power is more than doubled. You CAN go through the linguistic gymnastics to arrive at that conclusion, but standard assumption with "power" being increased would be that it's referring to AP.

I agree with this in regard to the Rasengan Barrage argument.

 

[Damage3245]

Forgot about this. I'll give a proper comment soon.

 

[Nierre]

kinda off topic but; alot of the p2 characters that are 7-B+, should be 7-A due to upscaling but that's gonna take tons of work lol

 

[Damage3245]

kinda off topic but; alot of the p2 characters that are 7-B+, should be 7-A due to upscaling but that's gonna take tons of work lol

What upscaling?

 

[Nierre]

What upscaling?

At first I thought the values were wrong but taking a second look at the profiles I realized I was mistaken lol my bad

 

[Golden_Void]

Like I said, inverse rotations are why it's more than doubled, not why it's doubled in the first place.

There's 4 rasengan barrages on this page. The KCM one in the middle, he's using at least 6 rasengan barrages with one going to each person. Each individual is not getting hit with 6x the energy of one rasengan, they are getting hit with the energy of one rasengan.

Right under that with Kurama, again, he's getting bombarded with countless rasengan in succession.

Bottom right, he's using countless giant rasengan to make a defensive wall of chakra.

The original at the top, two rasengan going to one person with the opposing rotations causing extra damage.

There's nothing inherent about the technique that warrants it being a multiplicative move. It's about how the technique is utilized. This leads to the argument that 99% of the characters on this website can be potentially moved entire tiers if they put their entire reserve into a single attack, or spammed several attacks at the same time for a single attack with higher output. Such is the case where it took an entire front line of Jonin using water style to cancel out Madara's one fire jutsu.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

There's 4 rasengan barrages on this page. The KCM one in the middle, he's using at least 6 rasengan barrages with one going to each person. Each individual is not getting hit with 6x the energy of one rasengan, they are getting hit with the energy of one rasengan.

Because they're spread out and not hitting one target

Right under that with Kurama, again, he's getting bombarded with countless rasengan in succession.

Already talked abt that one

Bottom right, he's using countless giant rasengan to make a defensive wall of chakra.

Those aren't hitting at the same time tho

The original at the top, two rasengan going to one person with the opposing rotations causing extra damage.

There's nothing inherent about the technique that warrants it being a multiplicative move. It's about how the technique is utilized. This leads to the argument that 99% of the characters on this website can be potentially moved entire tiers if they put their entire reserve into a single attack, or spammed several attacks at the same time for a single attack with higher output. Such is the case where it took an entire front line of Jonin using water style to cancel out Madara's one fire jutsu.

The Jonin thing is actually a good example of AP increasing when multiple of the same attack are combined. Obviously one jonin doesn't have Edo Madara level AP, but together they do.

 

[Golden_Void]

Those aren't hitting at the same time tho

Which goes back to what I said about this being an application of the jutsu or energy in general, not an inherent multiplier.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Which goes back to what I said about this being an application of the jutsu or energy in general, not an inherent multiplier.

Let's just agree to disagree until this thread gets staff input, making the discussion relevant.

 

[Damage3245]

The same would apply as PA Naruto, and I'd also add that his Rasenshuriken made Edo Madara think that it had "too much energy (560)." Not just a lot, or an impressive amount, but TOO MUCH, which is pretty weird to say if it wasn't at least as strong as Madara's physical stats/basic jutsu. And he did seem to damage Edo Madara, as Hashirama said the Rasenshuriken allowed him to seal Madara, and we see some cracks on Madara's face even a little after the explosion, and there's also the fact that it obliterated Hashirama's Wooden Dragon (656). Granted, that's not a Large Island level+ feat cause it's far smaller than the one that restrained Kurama, but it's still pretty damn impressive that it destroyed any of Hashirama's Wood Style, and Wood Style should definitely be at least as durable, if not moreso than Hashirama himself who is comparable to Madara. Hashirama saying it couldn't take him down could simply refer to the fact that he's an Edo.

The Rasenshuriken that Naruto used later in the war was a much bigger variant of the jutsu. Definitely not a typical Rasenshuriken.


And the "too much energy" statement is a bit vague. It was never elaborated as to what Madara meant by that.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

The Rasenshuriken that Naruto used later in the war was a much bigger variant of the jutsu. Definitely not a typical Rasenshuriken.

Could say "At least Mountain level (Should be stronger than he was before the war), Large Mountain level with Sage Mode, Large Mountain level+ with Rasengan Barrage and Fūton: Rasenshuriken (Edo Madara felt the need to absorb the Rasenshuriken and thought it had too much energy), higher with Odama Rasenshuriken (Obliterated Hashirama's Wooden Dragon and gave him the chance to seal Madara. It's this strong)"

And the "too much energy" statement is a bit vague. It was never elaborated as to what Madara meant by that.

Sure it's a little vague, but it is a weird statement to make if it's an attack not strong enough to even damage you. Could've meant it's too much energy for Madara to take directly. Plus, he did see Gaara (who's High 7-A+) use sand beforehand and didn't make a similar comment about him.

 

[Golden_Void]

Does that mean you're scaling base Naruto to rinnegan Madara or am I missing something

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Does that mean you're scaling base Naruto to rinnegan Madara or am I missing something

??? It's SM Naruto's Rasenshuriken

 

[Golden_Void]

Yes that's what I meant, but the question remains the same.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Yes that's what I meant, but the question remains the same.

Yes, I don't see a problem when the RS' antifeats are basically non existent.

 

[Golden_Void]

So sage Naruto > Rinnegan Madara > EMS Madara <= Hashirama who stated Naruto didn't even have as much chakra as him with 50% Kurama?

That doesn't seem right. Hashirama also stated the rasenshuriken couldn't take down Madara when he was immobilized.

 

[Godernet]

So sage Naruto > Rinnegan Madara > EMS Madara <= Hashirama who stated Naruto didn't even have as much chakra as him with 50% Kurama?

That doesn't seem right. Hashirama also stated the rasenshuriken couldn't take down Madara when he was immobilized.

tbf he'd only scale above him with the Rasenshuriken which is also dura neg.

there are also a lot of statements of Edo Rinnegan Madara being weaker than his prime despite having more abilities thanks to the Rinnegan.

 

[Stryker861]

tbf he'd only scale above him with the Rasenshuriken which is also dura neg.

there are also a lot of statements of Edo Rinnegan Madara being weaker than his prime despite having more abilities thanks to the Rinnegan.

I was just about to say that

 

[MinatoSparkle]

So sage Naruto > Rinnegan Madara > EMS Madara <= Hashirama who stated Naruto didn't even have as much chakra as him with 50% Kurama?

Hashirama is stronger than KCM2 Naruto, but that doesn't mean he can tank any of his attacks. It's his Wood Style that makes him stronger, not his physicals. And again, I'm ONLY scaling Naruto's Rasenshuriken above Edo Madara's base durability, not like his Susanoo or even ninjutsu. The Rasenshuriken is a massive AP amp. AS Naruto is nowhere near Hokage Minato, but his Rasenshuriken is relative to him.

That doesn't seem right. Hashirama also stated the rasenshuriken couldn't take down Madara when he was immobilized.

Already addressed that in the OP.

 

[Damage3245]

Also, since it took more than just Naruto or Bee to destroy Nagato's Chibaku Tensei, it should scale to At least 6-C+, likely High 6-C. Itachi and Sasuke's Susanoo would also scale to 6-C+ via scaling to the RS and Bee's Bijuudama (Idk why they didn't already as Itachi's profile implies he's ~BM Bee). And I just added the statement about Gyuki being the second strongest Bijuu since it was on his profile but not linked (567).

I think this bit of reasoning has lost me. Why exactly should it be Likley High 6-C? Nobody stated that it would have to take the full power of their combined efforts.

And destroying something at the same time as the others doesn't prove that Itachi's attack is equally strong. Three people launching simultaneous attacks =/= each person is contributing the same amount of energy.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

I think this bit of reasoning has lost me. Why exactly should it be Likley High 6-C? Nobody stated that it would have to take the full power of their combined efforts.

Itachi said "All three of us need to simultaneously unleash our most powerful long-distance ninjutsu at that core!"

And destroying something at the same time as the others doesn't prove that Itachi's attack is equally strong. Three people launching simultaneous attacks =/= each person is contributing the same amount of energy.

Not that I particularly disagree, but that's already on Itachi's profile, not something I was suggesting. I was just fixing up part of the profile already accepted.

 

[Damage3245]

Itachi said "All three of us need to simultaneously unleash our most powerful long-distance ninjutsu at that core!"

That's because there is no reason for them to hold back. They might as well all attack it together.

But even if that does make the core superior to each one of them individually, it still wouldn't make it High 6-C.

Not that I particularly disagree, but that's already on Itachi's profile, not something I was suggesting. I was just fixing up part of the profile already accepted.

Fair.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

That's because there is no reason for them to hold back. They might as well all attack it together.

But even if that does make the core superior to each one of them individually, it still wouldn't make it High 6-C.

I was thinking if CT is superior to 2 of their attacks and all 3 of them need to combine to break it it'd be High 6-C, but I'm fine with just At least 6-C+.

 

[Golden_Void]

The rasenshuriken thing makes sense then

 

[MinatoSparkle]

bump

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Bump

 

[Ped2018]

Hmm, so what is left to argue here?

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Hmm, so what is left to argue here?

It's not about arguing, it's about getting staff approval so this can be applied

 

[Ped2018]

So how many staff have agreed?

 

[MinatoSparkle]

So how many staff have agreed?

None yet, which is the problem

 

[Damage3245]

Sorry, lost track of where I was up to with this. Did the wording for the proposal for the Rasenshuriken and characters who attacked the Chibaku Tensei get changed based on my last comments on this?

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Sorry, lost track of where I was up to with this. Did the wording for the proposal for the Rasenshuriken and characters who attacked the Chibaku Tensei get changed based on my last comments on this?

Oh not yet I'll change that rq

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Sorry, lost track of where I was up to with this. Did the wording for the proposal for the Rasenshuriken and characters who attacked the Chibaku Tensei get changed based on my last comments on this?

Alright I made the changes, although when you say characters who attacked CT, do you mean Itachi not scaling to KCM Naruto and BM Bee? Cause you said that was fair prior.

 

[Damage3245]

Alright I made the changes, although when you say characters who attacked CT, do you mean Itachi not scaling to KCM Naruto and BM Bee? Cause you said that was fair prior.

I meant it already being on Itachi's profile was fair since it wasn't something you were proposing. But it is something I still have issue with. But maybe best handled elsewhere.

 

[ZawierJ]

Spoiler: Akatsuki Suppression Arc Naruto

AS Naruto is stronger than Kakashi. It's very blatantly stated (342), and supported by Kakashi saying Naruto may even surpass him (343) after learning that Naruto can't use the Rasenshuriken (surpass meaning be stronger than, not become stronger than in the future, which is especially clear in the raws - ナルトお前は確かに強くなった。オレと肩を並べるかそれ以上だ・・・), and talking to Kakuzu about how the next generation will always surpass the previous soon after making his statement (342). And the databook says his words of encouragement are never exaggerated (DB3, pg. 135) so he's telling the truth.

The Rasenshuriken is stated to exponentially increase Naruto's attack power (321), and the databook states that it brings certain death and that no one can withstand its impact (DB3, pg. 298), with there being several High 7-A characters whose power had been shown at that point. His KN0 Rasenshuriken is At least Large Mountain level, possibly Large Mountain level+ via scaling to Minato (350). I'm aware this statement used to be the bane of my existence but I've warmed up to it and honestly, it is pretty direct and the Rasenshuriken has very few antifeats, none of which scale it below this tier. The only antifeats used for it are pretty weak in all honesty (with some exceptions). The weakest of all is the idea that SM Naruto's RS scales below Pain because he repelled it, as the Rasenshuriken hadn't exploded. It's like scaling someone to a nuke's AP because they destroy the device. Pain wouldn't need to use ST on it if he really scaled to it, because he can withstand his own ST which "overpowered" the Rasenshuriken. In case you're gonna argue he could've taken the Rasenshuriken head-on and just chose not to because it would've hurt somewhat, no. In the same fight where he dispelled SM Naruto's RS, Base Naruto's Rasengan killed him. Beyond this, the only Tier 7 character which the Rasenshuriken has an antifeat against is Edo Madara, who's rated higher than Minato anyways (although that antifeat is questionable too, but I'll get to that when I get to WA Naruto). I will admit that Base Naruto's RS is less certain in terms of scaling than KN0's since you CAN argue hyperbole for the no one withstanding part, but the exponential thing should definitely make it a multiplier of his base power, and thus two or more times stronger than the Rasengan.

City level+ (At least relative to Kakashi, if not stronger. Traded blows with Kabuto[28]), At least Mountain level with Fūton: Rasenshuriken (Exponentially stronger than the Rasengan), possibly Large Mountain level (The Third Databook, which covers characters like the Sannin and Pain, stated that no one can withstand its impact, and that it's a striking blade of certain death), Mountain level with KN0 (Stronger than before), At least Large Mountain level, possibly Large Mountain level+ with KN0 Rasenshuriken (Rivals Minato in power. One-shot Kakuzu.[29])

And while it doesn't change his rating since he's High 7-A anyways, Minato's AP section should include the Rasenshuriken statement (also he should be At least High 7-A, possibly High 7-A+, not High 7-A, possibly High 7-A+, that just looks weird.

At least Large Mountain level (Heavily implied to be stronger than old Hiruzen, and to be capable of defeating Orochimaru. He is stronger than a 10 years younger Hiruzen, who had more of chance to kill Orochimaru, as he defeated him in a match when he was a Jonin[16]. This is supported by the fact that the strongest shinobi in the village is usually selected to be Hokage, which is further supported by Hiruzen and the rest of the Shinobi battling Nine-Tails waiting for his arrival and support[17][18]. Comparable to KN0 Naruto's Rasenshuriken, and therefore stronger than Base Naruto's Rasenshuriken), possibly Large Mountain level+ (A considers him a rival, as they fought many times, if not a superior[19]. It was also stated in the Databook that after crossing blades many times, Minato and the AB teams' military forces became mutually recognized. Masashi Kishimoto also stated that Minato was the strongest dead Shinobi at the time, which includes the likes of Sage Mode Jiraiya. However, Minato lacks concrete feats, and there are conflicting statements about his power), higher with Sage Mode (Sage Mode drastically enhances one's Ninjutsu, Genjustu, and Taijutsu)

Spoiler: Pain Arc/Five Kage Summit Naruto

Base Naruto needs a change. 7-B+ is maaaaassive downplay. He clashed with Base FKS Sasuke (485/486), who at this point is more than 10x stronger than Base Hebi Sasuke since 3T FKS Sasuke>CM2 Hebi Sasuke. Even Base Taka Sasuke is low end relative to 3T Taka Sasuke who's Mountain level, as he blocked a sword swing from Bee who's >3T Taka Sasuke then briefly fended Bee with his 7 blades off before being forced to activate the Sharingan (411). Base Taka Sasuke should be City level+, and thus Base Hebi Sasuke should be too, which is consistent as he blew Sai and his jutsu away just by flexing (306). That means Base FKS Sasuke scales more than 10x above 53.15 megatons, or 531.5 megatons, and would be At least Mountain level (really close to Mountain level+ so he could upscale there, but that's more debatable so I'll be conservative), and so would Base Naruto by extension. This also affects WA Sasuke, but he's gonna be in the next section because of a change to Edo Itachi that'll affect him. And this is sorta a side point, but CM2 Sasuke's AP section should include the fact that he's >3T Naruto, as Orochimaru states as much and the databook implies it as well.

The upgrade for SM Naruto is as simple as they come. Naruto's normal AP is currently rated as Large Mountain level, and the databook states that when using Rasengan Barrage, his power more than doubles (DB4, pg. 307). Since SM Naruto>SM Jiraiya>>Base Jiraiya~Orochimaru>Hebi Sasuke~1.4 Gigatons, this means that the Rasengan Barrage would scale >2.8 Gigatons, which is Large Mountain level+. And ofc, Rasenshuriken is stronger than that and is an exponential amp from Rasengan, so the same applies.

KM6 Naruto is a little weird cause his Bijuudama (and even physicals tbh) should logically be stronger than SM Naruto's Rasengan Barrage but idt there's a quantifiable way to prove it (best I can think of is KCM Naruto thinking to use a Bijuudama against 3A after the Rasenshuriken fails, but it's kinda vague). Similar question applies to KCM Naruto and those who scale to him. Personally I'd say they should be High 7-A+ but I'm fine with not doing that if staff disagree and think it's too large an assumption. I put a conservative estimate of his power below.

Also, MS Sasuke should be High 7-A+ with Susanoo, because if he's equal to SM Naruto, he needs to be able to deal with his stronger attacks, not just his taijutsu and Rasengan. Pain's AP justification should remove dissipating the RS as it's not really an AP feat as I explained much earlier, and I made some minor clean up revisions to his existing justification. And his CT/8T Naruto should be likely 6-C+, as Naruto only saw Pain's CT before, and thought that Bee/Susanoo Itachi would never be able to get out, and implied 8T Naruto>them (551).

At least Mountain level (Much stronger than before due to his training at Mount Myōboku. Clashed with Base FKS Sasuke), Large Mountain level with Sage Mode (Much stronger than his base form. Stated to have surpassed his predecessor, Jiraiya[30]. Consistently destroyed Pain's bodies when all or most of them were active[31][32][33][34]. Pain stated that Naruto had pushed him farther than ever before, which should put him above Sage Jiraiya[35]. Comparable to Mangekyō Sharingan Sasuke, as they both saw a vision[36] of their mutual deaths[37] if they fought, and believed they needed the Nine-Tails’ chakra and Itachi’s eyes, respectively, to defeat each other[38][37][39]), Large Mountain level+ with Rasengan Barrage and Rasenshuriken (Rasengan Barrage increases the Rasengan's power more than twice. His Rasenshuriken is this strong), At least Large Mountain level with KN6 (Stronger than before. He was able to overpower Pain's Shinra Tensei. His Bijū Bomb is this strong), At least Island level with KN8 (Much stronger than before. Completely broke out of Pain’s Chibaku Tensei), likely Island level+ (KCM Naruto thought that if he, Edo Itachi, and Killer Bee got trapped in it, they'd never get out of Chibaku Tensei, and considered the Nine Tails rampaging as the only way to break free)

City level+ (Casually overpowered Sai), Mountain level with Sharingan (Physically clashed with Itachi Uchiha, who was using the Mangekyō Sharingan, after matching his shurikenjutsu[128]), higher with CS1 (At least one-tenth as powerful as his CS2 state), even higher with Partial Transformation (Can partially transform into CS2 to enhance his strength[129]), Large Mountain level with CS2 (Created the thundercloud that spawned Kirin with his Great Dragon Fire Jutsu[130]. Much stronger than KN3 Naruto), Island level with Kirin[130]

City level+ (Blocked a sword swing from Killer B and momentarily fended his Acrobat assault off. Shouldn’t be much weaker than his Hebi self, as he had only lost the use of the Curse Mark and wasn’t fully healed from his fight with Itachi[131]), Mountain level with Sharingan, higher with Mangekyō Sharingan (The Mangekyō Sharingan greatly enhances its user's capabilities)

At least Mountain level, Large Mountain level with Sharingan (Karin stated that his chakra was thicker and colder than it was in his CS2 state[132]), higher with Chidori (Pierced through V1 A’s Raiton Armor and drew blood from him[133]) or Mangekyō Sharingan (The Mangekyō Sharingan greatly enhances its user's capabilities. Comparable to Sage Mode Naruto, as they both saw a vision[134] of their mutual deaths[135] if they fought, and believed they needed Itachi’s eyes and the Nine-Tails’ chakra, respectively, to defeat each other[136][135][137]), likely Large Mountain level+ with Susano’o (The Susano’o greatly increases Sasuke’s strength. Should be comparable to Sage Mode Naruto's stronger attacks)

City level+ (Even with 6 bodies active and being far away from Nagato, Pain can easily overpower Kakashi, Chōza, and Choji with his Shinra Tensei) to Large Mountain level (His Rain Tiger at Will technique is this powerful, and he can easily maintain it for long periods of time over Amegakure without draining himself. With less bodies active, he was able to trade blows[41] with Base Naruto, even though he wasn't at full capacity yet. Casually caught a punch from Sage Mode Jiraiya[40]. Jiraiya admitted that the three Pains he was facing could kill him if he fought them simultaneously.[52] The Animal Path could stab and wound Jiraiya.[53] He easily sent Sage Mode Naruto and his clone flying, which caused the clone to disperse and the original to groan in pain, with a casual Shinra Tensei[45]), far higher with Chaotic Shinra Tensei (When Nagato focuses his power on the Deva Path, his Shinra Tensei is dramatically enhanced[35]), At least Island level with Chibaku Tensei, likely Island level+ (KCM Naruto thought that if he, Edo Itachi, and Killer Bee got trapped in it, they'd never get out of Chibaku Tensei, and considered the Nine Tails rampaging as the only way to break free)

Spoiler: War Arc Naruto

The same would apply as PA Naruto, and I'd also add that his Rasenshuriken made Edo Madara think that it had "too much energy (560)." Not just a lot, or an impressive amount, but TOO MUCH, which is pretty weird to say if it wasn't at least as strong as Madara's physical stats/basic jutsu. And he did seem to damage Edo Madara, as Hashirama said the Rasenshuriken allowed him to seal Madara, and we see some cracks on Madara's face even a little after the explosion, and there's also the fact that it obliterated Hashirama's Wooden Dragon (656). Granted, that's not a Large Island level+ feat cause it's far smaller than the one that restrained Kurama, but it's still pretty damn impressive that it destroyed any of Hashirama's Wood Style, and Wood Style should definitely be at least as durable, if not moreso than Hashirama himself who is comparable to Madara. Hashirama saying it couldn't take him down could simply refer to the fact that he's an Edo.

At least Mountain level (Should be stronger than he was before the war), Large Mountain level with Sage Mode, Large Mountain level+ with Rasengan Barrage and Fūton: Rasenshuriken (Edo Madara felt the need to absorb the Rasenshuriken and thought it had too much energy), higher with Odama Rasenshuriken (Obliterated Hashirama's Wooden Dragon and gave him the chance to seal Madara. It's this strong)

KCM Naruto's Rasenshuriken justification should include the fact that it damaged the 3rd Raikage, evaporating his lightning cloak and leaving him with burns and wounds (554), and the previous sections' multiplier stuff. Technically, the Rasengan Barrage being 6-C for Pre-Bonding KCM Naruto isn't quantifiable unless you say KCM Naruto's Rasengan>6T Naruto's Bijuudama~2.4 Gigatons which I don't agree with, but it's really not a big stretch at all. KCM Naruto>>PA SM Naruto>SM Jiraiya>>Base Jiraiya~Orochimaru>CM2 Sasuke~1.4 Gigatons, or KCM Naruto>>>>>>1.4 Gigatons. KCM Naruto literally just needs to be 1.54x stronger than Hebi Sasuke for his Rasengan Barrage to be 6-C. KCM AND SM together not being that great an amp is a really big lowball. I think it's justified given the huge scaling chain he has above him, and would make the formatting waaaay better than if it had At least High 7-A+ for KCM Naruto then 6-C for MKCM Naruto or something.

At least Large Mountain level (Stated that he was significantly stronger than he was during Pain’s Assault[19], which should put him above his Sage Mode form and likely his KN6 form. Stated to have control over the Nine-Tails’ power on multiple occasions[20][21][19], and stole a massive amount of Kurama’s chakra, leaving him in an emaciated state[22]), ]Large Mountain level+ after bonding with Kurama (Became far more powerful than before due to having Kurama’s cooperation. KCM Naruto, EMS Sasuke and 100H Sakura were all portrayed as being comparable to each other[23][24][25][26]), Island level with Rasengan Barrage, Island level+ with Rasenshuriken (He contributed to a third of the energy output that destroyed Nagato's Chibaku Tensei[27]. Vaporized the Third Raikage's Lightning Armor and left him with significant wounds)

Also, since it took more than just Naruto or Bee alone to destroy Nagato's Chibaku Tensei, it should scale to At least 6-C+. Itachi and Sasuke's Susanoo would also scale to 6-C+ via scaling to the RS and Bee's Bijuudama (Idk why they didn't already as Itachi's profile implies he's ~BM Bee). And I just added the statement about Gyuki being the second strongest Bijuu since it was on his profile but not linked (567).

Large Mountain level+ (Easily overpowered KCM Naruto and Killer B, who needed Itachi to save their lives. Naruto stated that Nagato's power and Jutsu were far greater than Pain's because he wasn't acting through six bodies anymore[46] [38]), far higher with Chaotic Shinra Tensei, At least Island level+ with Chibaku Tensei (Much stronger than before. It took KCM Naruto's Rasenshuriken, Killer B's Bijū Bomb, and Edo Itachi's Yasaka Magatama together to destroy it)

Island level+ (Comparable to the other Bijū. He contributed to a third of the energy output that destroyed Nagato's Chibaku Tensei[27]. Stated by Kurama that Gyūki is the most powerful Bijū after himself), up to Small Country level+ with fully charged Bijū Bomb (His fully charged Bijū Bomb is this strong)

Large Mountain level (Matched[99] Kyūbi Chakra Mode Naruto in hand-to-hand combat), Large Mountain level+ with Mangekyō Sharingan (Clashed[100] with Sage Mode Kabuto, and cut off his horn[101]), Island level+ with Susano'o (He contributed to a third of the energy output that destroyed Nagato's Chibaku Tensei.[102] Ripped off Edo Nagato's arms[102] with his skeletal Susano'o. He was able to deflect[103] EMS Sasuke's Susano'o arm with his own)

At least Mountain level, Large Mountain level with Sharingan (Should be stronger than he was before the war), Large Mountain level+ with Eternal Mangekyō Sharingan (Stated to have surpassed Itachi’s ninjutsu and dōjutsu[138]. EMS Sasuke, KCM Naruto and 100H Sakura were all portrayed as being comparable to each other[139][140][141][142]), Island level+ with Susano’o (Superior to Itachi's Susano'o), Large Island level with Jūgo’s Cursed Seal (Comparable to Bijuu Sage Mode Naruto) , higher with Majestic Attire: Susano'o (Stronger than his Susano'o as it combined powers with Naruto's Kurama Avatar)

For KCM2 Naruto, the Double Rasengan/Rasenshuriken multiplier just needs to be applied, making them High 6-C.

Island level+ (Far stronger than his Kyūbi Chakra Mode, as he now has access to all of Kurama's unrestricted chakra. He is superior to the Bijū, who can do this, as he managed to casually send five incoming Bijū Bombs flying), Large Island level with Rasengan Barrage, Rasenshuriken, and Kurama Avatar, up to Small Country level+ with fully charged Bijū Bomb (Without charging up, his regular Bijū Bomb matched the combined, charged, Bijū Bomb of five other Bijū’s. His Charged Bijū Bomb contributed a majority of the energy used to do this much damage)

Spoiler: tldr

• Akatsuki Suppression Arc Naruto~/>Kakashi
• Base Naruto's Rasenshuriken - At least 7-A, possibly High 7-A
• KN0 Naruto's Rasenshuriken~Minato - At least High 7-A, possibly High 7-A+
• Base Hebi/Taka Sasuke - 7-B+
• Base PA/FKS/WA Naruto~Base FKS/WA Sasuke - At least 7-A
• SM Naruto's Rasengan Barrage/Rasenshuriken - High 7-A+
• MS Sasuke's Susanoo - Likely High 7-A+
• KN6/KCM Naruto - At least High 7-A
• Shinra Tensei is not stronger than SM Naruto's Rasenshuriken
• Pain's CT/8T Naruto - At least 6-C, likely 6-C+
• KCM Naruto's Rasengan Barrage - High 7-A+ to 6-C
• KCM Naruto's Rasenshuriken~3rd Raikage - 6-C+
• Edo Itachi/EMS Sasuke's Susanoo - 6-C+
• Edo Nagato's CT - At least 6-C+
• KCM2 Naruto's Rasengan Barrage/Rasenshuriken - High 6-C
• Note: Idk how to add the references in the profiles, so uhhhh imma need instructions on that or someone else is gonna have to do that

Agree: 11

Disagree: 0

agree

 

[Damage3245]

Large Mountain level+ after bonding with Kurama (Became far more powerful than before due to having Kurama’s cooperation. KCM Naruto, EMS Sasuke and 100H Sakura were all portrayed as being comparable to each other[23][24][25][26])

Just noticed this part.

When is it stated that Kurama's cooperation made KCM Naruto far more powerful?

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Just noticed this part.

When is it stated that Kurama's cooperation made KCM Naruto far more powerful?

Its because he was performing much better later on in KCM1 against Madara and Obito at the same time compared to before, as well as the whole Ten Tails Cataclysm feat.

 

[Godernet]

KCM1: fighting the Edo jinchuuriki off in 1v1s but overall getting overwhelmed when they were in their V2 States.

KCM2: slapping away 5 Bijuu bombs from their full Bijuu modes and overpowering all 5 pooling their power with the Kurama Avatar

we also saw when Naruto first unlocks KCM1 that Kurama still has a lot more power Naruto couldn't access until he befriended Kurama.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Just noticed this part.

When is it stated that Kurama's cooperation made KCM Naruto far more powerful?

Hm his feats against Obito and Madara should probably be mentioned to make that clearer. There is also MKCM Naruto~EMS Sasuke~MS Edo Itachi>>3T Edo Itachi~KCM Naruto (I don't really agree with this tbh) and MKCM Naruto~WA Sakura~/>100H Tsunade = High 7-A+

 

[Damage3245]

KCM1: fighting the Edo jinchuuriki off in 1v1s but overall getting overwhelmed when they were in their V2 States.

KCM2: slapping away 5 Bijuu bombs from their full Bijuu modes and overpowering all 5 pooling their power with the Kurama Avatar

we also saw when Naruto first unlocks KCM1 that Kurama still has a lot more power Naruto couldn't access until he befriended Kurama.

Sure, but KCM2 wasn't what I was referring to. I'm aware that KCM2 > KCM1.