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Over Heaven Reality Overwrite tier upgrade (and a key addition too) [CONTINUED IN NEW THREAD]

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No offense Efi but your first argument literally effects absolutely nothing, whether it means timeline or universe, it doesn't matter, it'd only matter if the argument was for tier 2, which it isn't and as such it's a moot point. Although I agree with your point, the only thing it would change is one word in the OP, and not anything else because nobody is saying tier 2.

Your second point doesn't actually effect anything, not even sure what you're trying to say. Regardless, it doesn't effect the end result if I think it is what you're trying to insinuate.

And your third point is contradicted by the game itself, the entire plot, the character's themselves, what we see outright on screen, what we know of, disregards occam's razer in full and is based entirely on a maybe that may even contradict you ultimately and an entirely 100% unfounded assumption with zero backing anywhere in the source material, not even a hint or implication and requires a huge logical jump to reach that is honestly quite ludicrous and you're the only person I've seen anywhere that managed to reach said conclusion (Hell even in the original downgrade thread a few months back it was accepted to be the case, it just, never actually got implemented) but is also outright contradicted on screen, by the character doing the thing. Plus we treat warping the universe as 3-A in every other case, see Toppo and Grand Priest. I really don't see the issue here.

Instead of trying to convince another admin that you have a point (Even though that admin has read your points already), why not actually debate your point in the very thread it matters in? Because at the moment, if Cal is to be believed, he read through the entire thread, including your points, and disagreed with it, or at least agreed with or leaned toward the opposite arguments. i don't wanna come of as being a bit to blunt but you're kinda supposed to argue your case in the thread, so others can judge it as well. Then again, you already agreed with the higher rating, you're basically just arguing against the lower of the two ratings in a way that I find kinda sus, you do realize that the tier would go from 3-A, possibly High 3-A to just flat out High 3-A right? Although I disagree with that, lower end or not I find it to be more accurate and explicit as well as an actual showing of power.

>I basically couldn't care less about as they inspire me 0 trust in their own care for accuracy.

That's pretty rude Efi. You can't exactly undermine people like that. (I even agree with one point in full, it just isn't relevant but does warrant a word change to better fit what it actually is).

Also I hit up Sir Ovens.
 
After reviewing the argumentation since my initial vote, I'm am still in agreement with Chariot's points. All the reasoning and examples provided seem to align with the tiers suggested
 
Antvasima said:
Well, feel free to ask more staff members for help, preferably discussion moderators.
 
Yeah, Sir Oven is listed under Discussion Mod. I hit him up.
 
Thanks, but you should preferably ask a few more than that.
 
I'll hit up the rest of the disc mods listed on the jojo page then. (Although Ogbunaball already commented, he's neutral).
 
Sorry for the criticism, but is all this necessary? This only concerns two characters with the same abilities, and a lot of people have agreed to it, with basically nobody disagreeing.
 
Can you remind me what you wish to change with an easy to understand summary?
 
I'll try, though I'm not the one making the argument.

Anyway, https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Heaven_Ascension_DIO is currently Unknown (with Reality Overwrite, which is really his only technique that matters), because people couldn't figure out what tier to give him. Iirc he's been 2-A, 2-C and Low 2-C in the past.

This CRT is about refreshing their profile and giving Reality Overwrite an actual AP, which is, Iirc, Multi-Solar System level, likely High Universe level for the first key, and Universe level, likely At least High Universe level for the second one. Furthermore, we're giving him two keys instead of one, as he powers up for the finale.

This only scales to another character, https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Jotaro_Kujo_(Eyes_of_Heaven), who basically has the same powerset.
 
Change Heaven Dio from Unknown Tier to 3-A, possibly High 3-A. With two keys, on for early game and one for late game basically. With the early game key being 4-A, possibly High 3-A for creating a dimension filled with countless stars and celestial objects and possibly High 3-A for a feat involving overwriting an infinite amount of mass. His second key is 3-A, possibly High 3-A for warping the universe, much like how Toppo or the Grand Priest warped the world of the void in DBS and High 3-A for the same feat as before.

Everyone so far agrees with this change, we have I think 10 for it right now? 1 neutral and 1 disagreement. But even the disagreement with this change is only a half disagreement with the lower end and still agrees with the High 3-A change.
 
Okay. I suppose that seems fine, but I would much prefer if you ask the following members to comment here:

Eficiente

Saikou The Lewd King

Promestein

SomebodyData

Dargoo Faust

DemonGodMitchAubin

Qliphoth Bacikal

Starter Pack

Shadowbokunohero

Crabwhale

Sir Ovens

Antoniofer
 
I don't know about this one, can someone give me a summary for the reasoning for universal tiering, because if it's reliant on destroying infinite Funny Valentine's that doesn't really equate to AP, that's more of a range+hax feat

As for 4-A, it should be fine if did create a dimension with stars in it
 
DemonGodMitchAubin said:
I don't know about this one, can someone give me a summary for the reasoning for universal tiering, because if it's reliant on destroying infinite Funny Valentine's that doesn't really equate to AP, that's more of a range+hax feat
As for 4-A, it should be fine if did create a dimension with stars in it
3-A is because he was warping a universe and this is an accpeted feat for Toppo and Grand Priest that did the same with the World of Void

I've put the "possibly High 3-A" for a reason, as is unknown if that feat is truly an AP feat or just a combination of his range + hax
 
Warping the universe at the end of the game in the final fight. In a similiar manner to the world of void feats from DBS.

Reality overwrite in general is hax, point is he overwrote an infinite amount of mass, is it range? Yeah, but it doesnt change the fact he overwrote an infinite amount of mass in one go instantly. If we're giving Reality Overwrite a tier in general than it being hax doesn't matter, we can't cherry pick what should and shouldn't count.

Edit: Also yeah, the possibly is there for a reason, it's not like it's flat out High 3-A, it's a bit vague, we just know he did it.
 
Can someone sum about Chariot's points and the opposition? I would comment but I got the feeling I'm not understanding the arguments.
 
Well given nobody has responded yet to Data (Figured a 3rd party summing it up would be best but I gotta be somewhere tomorrow and nobody has responed to Data yet) guess I'll try and explain myself in the simplest way possible ignoring any side points.

My point is simple, Dio at the end of the game warped the universe using his overwrite ability, he confirmed it was the main world (Which in context means the base universe or main universe, the universe that Parts 1-6 took place within) and not some other dimension or his own, thus preventing any confusion on if it's his dimension or not. As such, Post-Soul Absorbtion should be 3-A given he warped the universe along with everything in the game essentially pushing forward toward that point as well (It's why he needed the souls to boost his power in the first place, so he could boost himself to the point he could rewrite the main world to his ideal reality. There's also the whole SPOH undoing Dio's fuckery including the main world warp). given we treat these types of feats as 3-A or higher depending on the size of the universe, it checks out as at least a baseline 3-A feat.

The counterpoint to that is Dio simply teleported his dimension into the main world and that's what we see which I find ludicrous and unfounded, it's conjecture that isn't implied anywhere in the game and disregards the game's entire narrative and plot and I'd even go as far to say it ignores character statements as well given Dio makes a point to specify they're still in the main world and not anywhere else so there really shouldn't be any confusion and his goal had never been to just teleport his realm onto the main one, among other things as to why that's a huge jump in logic. The other counterpoints from Efi is actually right and warrants a word change in the OP (Or not, Efi and OP technically aren't wrong, it's just a matter of wording and it wouldn't change the tier at all, it's just semantics on which word between timeline and universe is more accurate for the feat but either one doesn't effect the result at all, so I'm completely indifferent to it but Efi's point in that it could mean universe and not timeline is indeed correct, it's just the way OP words it isn't wrong nor does it effect the feat) and the other doesn't effect the tiering nor the points being made.

The rest really ain't anything I'm arguing for (I'd have preferred keeping the rest to another thread but all the other things seem uncontroversial, it's just adding corpse powers that we know he has), I don't disagree with it (And what I did disagree with I already said as much), you're gonna have to ask OP on the rest but everyone seems to agree with a possibly High 3-A for overwriting an infinite amount of mass so meh, I'm fine with that one, he did in fact do that, if we wanna treat it as a tier then yeah, it's technically not wrong, even if it's range that doesn't change infinite amount of mass went poof in one overwrite but given the dubious nature of the feat regardless of if he did it or not, posibly seems best opposed to flat out High 3-A. And the hand thing I'm neutral on, game is inconsistent as **** on that, sometimes he needs contact sometimes he doesn't, only really ok with it because of the end game flex is explicitly him doing something without hand contact and Funny stating he overwrote something by merely waving his hand. There's maybe one or two more examples as well but they're less blatant and vague, hence indifferent (Although damage to his hands in any situation still ***** him so it's still a weakness in that regard).


tldr

My point is Dio warped the universe, the opposition is he teleported his dimension basically to boil it down to the simplest of terms. The rest I'm neutral on and is more of OP's thing.

Edit: Also the first key being 4-A is self explanatory, dude is outright stated and shown to have created a dimension filled with countless stars, cosmic clouds and etc at the very minimum, you could even argue it's larger given how it's treated but that's just guesswork.
 
@SD & Mitch

Thank you for helping out.
 
My point is that DIO isn't warping all the universe, just interstellar parts of it as that's what we see. All the other dialogues saying something something main world/reality/etc. don't confirm it at all, you guys can see them to check it out yourselves.

I would also like to see the staff responding to this, not other users doing so with what they already said they think.
 
This was built for them to have opinions like that at first without carefully reading all of it. Without a discussion about the matter to double check it, within that context, I don't care about their opinions. And I do consider them reliable in general.

No more derailment would be neat.
 
> My point is that DIO isn't warping all the universe, just interstellar parts of it as that's what we see.

Except that's not what you said, you're back pedaling now, your original point, and I quote, was that he teleported his dimension into the main world, which is a ludicrous jump in logic.

You say Dio isn't warping all the universe but literally everything in the game suggests he's warping the main world, like as a whole, not an arbitrary percentage of it. If he's said to be warping the main world and his entire goal is to be warping the main world and everything suggests he's warping the main world, chances are, he's warping the main world, not just a small bit of it, your point in well we only see an inter steller amount being warped is faulty because, well what do you expect? A pan out of the entire universe, pretty sure that's when when occam's razer comes into play and you're supposed to assume it's being warped in it's entirety (Again, kinda like the Toppo feat iirc, it wasn't said he only warped what we could see or all of it but it's a safe assumption that he effected all of it). Not to mention you saying it's only inter stellar is faulty to begin with, it's based on guesswork which, again, ignores the entire game's narrative and even character statements. Hell why even bother boosting his power to overwrite a sliver of the main world when we already know for an absolute fact he can casually warp and create interstellar dimensions (which probably aren't even just interstellar, the game talks about it as a legit parallel world).

And no offense, but it's you who continously refuses to actually debate properly, it's not like you haven't had the chance and no derailment? This is literally what the thread is about, it quite literally can't be derailment.

>This was built for them to have opinions like that at first without carefully reading all of it.

Why do you keep acting like nobody actually read through the thread? The standard assumption is that they read through the thread because that's whay they're supposed to do, I don't know why you keep undermining opinions like that Efi but I actually have slight issue with it.
 
Eficiente said:
My point is that DIO isn't warping all the universe, just interstellar parts of it as that's what we see. All the other dialogues saying something something main world/reality/etc. don't confirm it at all, you guys can see them to check it out yourselves.

I would also like to see the staff responding to this, not other users doing so with what they already said they think.
I would also appreciate further staff input about this.
 
Honestly I don't see why I can't add the changes

An Administrator literally agreed, 1 Discussion Moderator agrees and the other one half agrees and half disagrees.

Someone who's basically 2 times hierarchically above these 2 moderators that don't even fully disagree said that is fine
 
I do not remember that many staff members agreeing, and the issue seems to be under contest from another staff member.
 
Every single admin listed on the JoJo page, and then some has already been contacted.

This is honestly kinda ludicrous, we have 12 in agreement (Including users who have explicitly said they re-read all the arguments and still agree), we have Cal and Redgrave who agree, and only one in disagreement (And it's only a half disagreement at that), I don't wanna be that dude but regardless of Efi's opinions on how she doesn't trust or care about what others think or that nobody has actually read through the thread properly so their opinions need to be second guessed or that this thread is somehow made and written with the intent to somehow maliciously skew other's opinions (Which I find kinda offensive and rude but whatever), this should've ended days ago. I respect Efi's opinion but last I checked CRT's don't get sent to purgatory when only one person disagrees and forced to contact every admin on the site (Which has basically already happened, I think we're at 14 admins contacted now).

I have more issue with Efi undermining almost every opinion in the tread basically than the actual disagreement, the latter is fine and to be expected, the former is kinda rude.
 
Okay. I suppose that makes sense. Can you write a list of all the people who agreed, were neutral, and disagreed?
 
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