One Piece: Wano Arc Part 1: AP Revisions; The Dawn

[KingTempest]

She isn't ******* dumb oh my lord. I hate when people say this, man. Her and hew crew are actually pretty intelligent, and they actually were going to kill Sanji and his family if not for the straw hats. Just, think about that. She drew Sanji in using threats and her beautiful daughter, and then lured his family into coming to the island, completely incapacitated them, and was about to steal their technology and kill them. If that happened her crew would have probably been unstoppable after that, and it was only a failure due to other very smart people interrupting and fighting her. Also, she can disguise her sword as a hat, not only is that brilliant for catching people off guard but it's simply overall clever, it's really a shame people think her clumsiness and greed ( mostly for food, ofc. ) make her stupid.

#1 Calm the hell down

#2 I know that business wise she's intelligent as hell. Outside of this thread I'm probably the only person who thinks she's above average in intelligence.

If you read the point, I'm saying that she does stupid ass things in combat.
Doesn't use blatant Hao against the people who are tryna kill her but uses it on Page One.
Was throwing individual homies at the supernova and she used all 3 of her homies on Ulti.

In battle she's an idiot

"She killed X, Y, Z for dumb reasons" is not a counter to "She was aiming at a very weak target, thus she shouldn't be using her full strength".

Being stupid and killing for petty reasons does not equal "will use her full strength to accomplish these murders". Your fly example might be seen as "overcompensates for weak opponents", but that doesn't mean she'd use her full strength either, just more than what she needed.

She is using a strength amp technique in the form of igniting a weapon and a full power swing with both arms cocked back behind her head while using a sword (didn't even use this shit on Kaido) in order to hit somebody is definitely a counter to "she was aiming at a very weak target".

Slamming a 2 ton old lady into the ground is not justification for Tier 6 Attack Potency, regardless if its SS or LS. He never overpowered her, and the act of overpowering would be LS only anyway.

The act of stopping the force of a Tier 6 strike dead in its tracks and forcing it back in very quick succession is grounds for Tier 6.

"wounds"? We'll have to wait for the anime, because saying two very small panels, one of which does not show wounds at all (see the 1015 scan) are showcasing more wounds, is also very unreliable. We could say it's dirt from literally being slammed into the ground. It is well known that assuming having "hashtags" around your body is not enough to conclude damage.

Who told you that?

In 1013 she had not a single mark on her face

.

After she's ready to murder her, she gets hit by the Punk Gibson, she gets marks on the top right (on her side) corner of her face.

1014 during their dialogue there is no wounds on the left side of her face from what we can see.

1015 comes and there are large marks on both sides of her face.

There are most definitely wounds

The "long time" part needs to go, two chapters is not a long time at all, and we have to reason to assume it is. Judging by the events, it'd be bold to claim 5 minutes even passed between 1013 to 1015.

Fine

She was striking a small child. This is what happens when she strikes at full strength. (Referring to the shockwaves, which do happen even if only one party have/is using Haki)

That is a Haoshoku Haki clash.
What you wanna tell me that this move that she used on Jinbe is now drastically dumbed down for some reason because her target is different?

This is Linlin. Measurement of the levels of her strength should never be a discussion, when the fact that she was ready to kill a small child with a burning sword and both hands swinging when she could've just used her bare hands like on Luffy and Chopper.

Cognac is unreliable.

Cognac is very reliable

 

[DaMonkeMan]

pretty sure immaturity is the word ya'll are looking for

True

 

[DaMonkeMan]

#1 Calm the hell down

#2 I know that business wise she's intelligent as hell. Outside of this thread I'm probably the only person who thinks she's above average in intelligence.

If you read the point, I'm saying that she does stupid ass things in combat.
Doesn't use blatant Hao against the people who are tryna kill her but uses it on Page One.
Was throwing individual homies at the supernova and she used all 3 of her homies on Ulti.

I'm not angry, I'm not even insulting anyone, and I'm sorry if it seemed like that, but I really hate these specific things:
People wanking Admirals and saying Admirals are equal to emperors ( seriously, we literally do not have proof for these claims, please stop. )
People claiming big mom is stupid due to her sometimes clumsy or weird ways of dealing with things, and over all relentlessness.
People who wank Shanks ( he has like two feats bro, wank someone else lol )
I just want people to know that, and also know that I'm almost never actually angry on here, even if I may seem so. So sorry for making it look like I was pissed over your statements, guys.

 

[GodlyCharmander]

She is using a strength amp technique in the form of igniting a weapon and a full power swing with both arms cocked back behind her head while using a sword (didn't even use this shit on Kaido) in order to hit somebody is definitely a counter to "she was aiming at a very weak target".

Ah well, I concede. This justication is fine.

The act of stopping the force of a Tier 6 strike dead in its tracks and forcing it back in very quick succession is grounds for Tier 6.

"forcing it back"?
The act of stopping it means BM isn't putting any strength into it anymore. And her body, which is what was slammed, isn't giving any resistance as she was caught off guard.
Stopping big mom is fine to use, slamming her needs to be changed to "his Punk Gibson slightly bruised her", or removed (depending on what conclusion we reach down here).

Slamming her into the ground isn't grounds for Tier 6, because he didn't overpower her Tier 6 SS to do it.

Who told you that?

In 1013 she had not a single mark on her face

.

After she's ready to murder her, she gets hit by the Punk Gibson, she gets marks on the top right (on her side) corner of her face.

1014 during their dialogue there is no wounds on the left side of her face from what we can see.

1015 comes and there are large marks on both sides of her face.

There are most definitely wounds

Hashtags are not wounds. They were never interpreted as wounds.

First, the word "wounds" implies her skin is being broken. No blood, however, thus, "bruises" would be more appropriate.

First, let me show you.

Literally no different from said bruises.

About your chapter 1015 circles, they are inaccurate, and the manga itself shows it's just dirt.

Furthermore, hashtags are often portrayed as dirt, burned marks (which would also just be ashes if it does no damage).
Bruises darken the character's skin and is has much thicker abundance of lines.

Burns

This panel of Sanji in the official colored manga is a great example of what I'm saying.

same hashtag marks on Sanji to represent damage (they are abundant), same hashtag marks on the dust cloud to represent dirt and rubble.
Big Mom was slammed into a dust cloud from hitting the ground.

Having hashtags after literally getting slammed into dirt is, in fact, unreliable (specially when she doesn't even react to said bruises).

Context is screaming dirt marks.

 

[Marlinmarley]

Stupid Shueisha!

They took down an excellently made video showing the entire Luffy vs Kaido fight that used this one great ost.

I get copyright laws, but they are one of those companies that seem obsessed with copyright!

Sorry for derailing.

Japan don't have much stuff regarding copyright laws and safe use, that's why shueisha/toei gatling shot youtube videos into oblivion whitout a good reason

 

[KingTempest]

Ah well, I concede. This justication is fine.

"forcing it back"?
The act of stopping it means BM isn't putting any strength into it anymore. And her body, which is what was slammed, isn't giving any resistance as she was caught off guard.
Stopping big mom is fine to use, slamming her needs to be changed to "his Punk Gibson slightly bruised her", or removed (depending on what conclusion we reach down here).

Slamming her into the ground isn't grounds for Tier 6, because he didn't overpower her Tier 6 SS to do it.

Fine then, this is fair

Hashtags are not wounds. They were never interpreted as wounds.

First, the word "wounds" implies her skin is being broken. No blood, however, thus, "bruises" would be more appropriate.

First, let me show you.

Literally no different from said bruises.

About your chapter 1015 circles, they are inaccurate, and the manga itself shows it's just dirt.

Furthermore, hashtags are often portrayed as dirt, burned marks (which would also just be ashes if it does no damage).
Bruises darken the character's skin and is has much thicker abundance of lines.

Burns

This panel of Sanji in the official colored manga is a great example of what I'm saying.

same hashtag marks on Sanji to represent damage (they are abundant), same hashtag marks on the dust cloud to represent dirt and rubble.
Big Mom was slammed into a dust cloud from hitting the ground.

Having hashtags after literally getting slammed into dirt is, in fact, unreliable (specially when she doesn't even react to said bruises).

Context is screaming dirt marks.

The hashtags aren't portrayed as dirt... ever

 

[Sword_guy_Z]

#1 Calm the hell down

#2 I know that business wise she's intelligent as hell. Outside of this thread I'm probably the only person who thinks she's above average in intelligence.

If you read the point, I'm saying that she does stupid ass things in combat.
Doesn't use blatant Hao against the people who are tryna kill her but uses it on Page One.
Was throwing individual homies at the supernova and she used all 3 of her homies on Ulti.

In battle she's an idiot

She is using a strength amp technique in the form of igniting a weapon and a full power swing with both arms cocked back behind her head while using a sword (didn't even use this shit on Kaido) in order to hit somebody is definitely a counter to "she was aiming at a very weak target".

The act of stopping the force of a Tier 6 strike dead in its tracks and forcing it back in very quick succession is grounds for Tier 6.

Who told you that?

In 1013 she had not a single mark on her face

.

After she's ready to murder her, she gets hit by the Punk Gibson, she gets marks on the top right (on her side) corner of her face.

1014 during their dialogue there is no wounds on the left side of her face from what we can see.

1015 comes and there are large marks on both sides of her face.

There are most definitely wounds

Fine

That is a Haoshoku Haki clash.
What you wanna tell me that this move that she used on Jinbe is now drastically dumbed down for some reason because her target is different?

This is Linlin. Measurement of the levels of her strength should never be a discussion, when the fact that she was ready to kill a small child with a burning sword and both hands swinging when she could've just used her bare hands like on Luffy and Chopper.

Cognac is very reliable

I don’t think the (lack of) ACOC usage shouldn’t be counted against her intelligence wise in battle. I think that was just PIS.

Oda made her look pretty pathetic in comparison to Kaido. I am still astonished that two Yonkos either did not have awakenings or didn’t bother using them. Oda might clarify on it later (both ACOC and the awakening not being used), but if he doesn’t it was PIS. She is actually one of the most creative people (which can be rather intelligent in battle) with her ability in One Piece (the most creative is easily Luffy).

 

[GodlyCharmander]

Fine then, this is fair

The hashtags aren't portrayed as dirt... ever

Sorry for the long time to reply, turns out searching for very specific artstyle choices isn't exactly easy. First, I should state that my example with Sanji already showcases thick dust being artistically presented as a bunch of crossed lines. But I assume you want a more grounded example.
Yes, lines in one's body can and has been used to represent someone being dirty, or having dust in their face.


Do not say "It has literally never happened" when in fact would be "I don't recall it happening because this never came up before".
Linlin is slammed into the dirt, thus her face is dirty.

Wait for the anime, wait for the official colors.

 

[Eseseso]

1. I do agree that Linlin not using Haoshoku Infusion was MAJOR PIS.

2. While I don't wanna debate over whether Kaido is above Big Mom in AP, in durability I think Kaido is clearly superior.

Think about it: Kid fought Big Mom in a 1v1 with all of her homies (and 3-Homie Big Mom was implied of being comparable to Hybrid Kaido in AP) and kept on going.

Kid's attacks to Kaido did next to no damage, and Kid even admitted he couldn't hurt Kaido via normal physical damage.

3. We could add for Marco's Hybrid Form that Big Mom didn't want to continue fighting him until she had more Homies to use, per her own admission.

 

[KingTempest]

Sorry for the long time to reply, turns out searching for very specific artstyle choices isn't exactly easy. First, I should state that my example with Sanji already showcases thick dust being artistically presented as a bunch of crossed lines.

Your example is a false equivalence.
Because you tried to equate the hashtags being put on clouds to the ones put on peoples' faces to it being dirt.
Cause even on Sanji, the ones on his face is blood, and the ones on the cloud is dirt.

But I assume you want a more grounded example.
Yes, lines in one's body can and has been used to represent someone being dirty, or having dust in their face.


Do not say "It has literally never happened" when in fact would be "I don't recall it happening because this never came up before".

Law's isn't dirt.
That's just Oda's way of showing marks of someone who's sick or impoverished.

Law had no dirt or dust in his situation and he had those marks on his face. All the kids with White Lead Syndrome did.
They were saying his skin was pale but his skin looked regular. That's how Oda distinguishes sick people.

Sanji had the same marks on his face, and that part of his face was covered up seconds before, meaning that dust and dirt being there is unfounded.

Carrot had no marks on her face, got stomped into the ground, and only had blood.

Perospero was literally covered in dust and only had blood on his face.

That being dust is unfounded. Even in your doffy scan it lacks context to say it's dust.

Linlin is slammed into the dirt, thus her face is dirty.

Linlin was slammed into the dirt, and the marks at the bottom of her face weren't shown directly after until a chapter later, after their battle has started.

Wait for the anime, wait for the official colors.

I would need a mark shown with it being dirt on their face, because from what I'm seeing its speculation.

 

[Eminiteable]

Did Big Mom's face even get slammed into the dirt? Looked to me like her body was brought down but her actual face was hit with the metal arm of Kid.

 

[Isaiah_ZaMangaka]

Did Big Mom's face even get slammed into the dirt? Looked to me like her body was brought down but her actual face was hit with the metal arm of Kid.

Yea ur right, her back was slammed into the ground.

 

[KingTempest]

Did Big Mom's face even get slammed into the dirt? Looked to me like her body was brought down but her actual face was hit with the metal arm of Kid.

You're not wrong, her face was facing upwards the entire time

 

[Stefano4444]

I am still astonished that two Yonkos either did not have awakenings or didn’t bother using them.

I personally think that both were using their awakening in the fight, its just that the manga never bother to directly stated it.

At least when it come to Kaido, as similar to Luffy i think his devil fruit's base ability its simply to take the physical characteristics of a fish.

 

[SnookB]

I personally think that both were using their awakening in the fight, its just that the manga never bother to directly stated it.

At least when it come to Kaido, as similar to Luffy i think his devil fruit's base ability its simply to take the physical characteristics of a fish.

Idk, I think they never truly needed awakenings to be at the top of the food chain, so they never unlocked'em due to how unnecessary they might've felt.
I think (if they survive after this arc) they will next time we see them

 

[Eseseso]

2 minor things:

1. Shouldn't Kyutoryu Zoro be added to post-mink medicine Zoro's key(s)? I mean I know he didn't use it against King but if we're adding it to his Beginning of Timeskip key we should add it to his post-medicine feat as well.

2. Should Zoan Drake's feat of hurting an injured Apoo be removed for being an outlier? Not to mention Apoo had just been badly injured by both Shishi sonson and Drake IIRC, he was caught off guard by Drake, and Drake's bite didn't even do that much damage.

 

[Eminiteable]

1. Shouldn't Kyutoryu Zoro be added to post-mink medicine Zoro's key(s)? I mean I know he didn't use it against King but if we're adding it to his Beginning of Timeskip key we should add it to his post-medicine feat as well.

What, like a potential "En-Ō Kyutoryu"? No way, until that's shown it should be left out.

 

[Eseseso]

What, like a potential "En-Ō Kyutoryu"? No way, until that's shown it should be left out.

But he didn't use it before Wano either.

We can put it before Haoshoku Infusion.

I mean we never saw the power of that Flame Dragon Attack King used yet it's still mentioned.

 

[Eminiteable]

But he didn't use it before Wano either.

It's the same Asura tho as the pre-timeskip that we saw in Wano so it was fine as there was no change.

We can put it before Haoshoku Infusion.

You mean just include the Kyutoryu version that he used on the rooftop without going into his upgraded abilities? so you're suggesting his tier would look like this?

C-5, higher with Busōshoku Haki, even higher with Haoshoku Infusion, when unleashing Enma or Kyutoryu, far higher with En-Ō Santōryū

Or this:

C-5, higher with Busōshoku Haki or Kyutoryu, even higher with Haoshoku Infusion or when unleashing Enma, far higher with En-Ō Santōryū

 

[Eseseso]

It's the same Asura tho as the pre-timeskip that we saw in Wano so it was fine as there was no change.

You mean just include the Kyutoryu version that he used on the rooftop without going into his upgraded abilities? so you're suggesting his tier would look like this?

Or this:

The second one seems better to me.

 

[SnookB]

But he didn't use it before Wano either.

We can put it before Haoshoku Infusion.

I mean we never saw the power of that Flame Dragon Attack King used yet it's still mentioned.

He can barely sustain Santoryu with Haoshoku infusion. Stacking Kyutoryu is an unsafe assumption imo

 

[GodlyCharmander]

Law's isn't dirt.
That's just Oda's way of showing marks of someone who's sick or impoverished.

Law had no dirt or dust in his situation and he had those marks on his face. All the kids with White Lead Syndrome did.
They were saying his skin was pale but his skin looked regular. That's how Oda distinguishes sick people.

"I need a more grounded reason for this brown stained mark from a dirty poor kid being dirt. It just means they're sick because BEEPBEEPBOPBEEP".

Brown stained marks equating sickness is absolute nonsense.

Did Big Mom's face even get slammed into the dirt? Looked to me like her body was brought down but her actual face was hit with the metal arm of Kid.

Fair enough, I guess. I am going to come back to this once one or the other showcase this though.

 

[Sword_guy_Z]

I personally think that both were using their awakening in the fight, its just that the manga never bother to directly stated it.

At least when it come to Kaido, as similar to Luffy i think his devil fruit's base ability its simply to take the physical characteristics of a fish.

It can’t be that. We have other fruits in the series like the Ox Ox fruit Model: Giraffe and the Cat Cat fruit Model: Leopard. Their forms are that of the model. And Oda made sure to state each Awakening presented thus far. The Jailer Beasts, Doffy, Katakuri, Kidd, Law, and Luffy were all stated to be awakened and their abilities displayed. Kaido even knew about awakenings. Big Mom’s son was awakened. Oda literally could have given them trash Awakening abilities and that would’ve still been better than two of some of the strongest people in the verse not having Awakenings.

 

[KingTempest]

yall

general

 

[Eseseso]

How long til the edits can be put in?

 

[DaMonkeMan]

Sorry for the long time to reply, turns out searching for very specific artstyle choices isn't exactly easy. First, I should state that my example with Sanji already showcases thick dust being artistically presented as a bunch of crossed lines. But I assume you want a more grounded example.
Yes, lines in one's body can and has been used to represent someone being dirty, or having dust in their face.


Do not say "It has literally never happened" when in fact would be "I don't recall it happening because this never came up before".
Linlin is slammed into the dirt, thus her face is dirty.

Wait for the anime, wait for the official colors.

There's a character from Charlie Brown that has those dirty marks all over them, actually.

 

[Eseseso]

1. I think the Omori Karyudon should be removed from King's profile, since we never get any indication of how strong it is.

2. Drake hurting Apoo should be removed for a few reasons:

A. Outlier

B. Apoo was caught by surprise

C. Kid and Zoro had already badly damaged Apoo

D. The bite didn't even do that much damage.

 

[Eminiteable]

1. I think the Omori Karyudon should be removed from King's profile, since we never get any indication of how strong it is.

Besides the basic logic that this attack is clearly more impressive than what King had showed prior with his Imperial flames. He was confident it would have killed Zoro who prior had matched King in all his previous states and was shocked that it was destroyed despite already recognising how powerful Zoro had become.

 

[Eseseso]

Besides the basic logic that this attack is clearly more impressive than what King had showed prior with his Imperial flames. He was confident it would have killed Zoro who prior had matched King in all his previous states and was shocked that it was destroyed despite already recognising how powerful Zoro had become.

Then that should at least be mentioned in the profile.

 

[WrongIdea21]

1. I think the Omori Karyudon should be removed from King's profile, since we never get any indication of how strong it is

I think that was one of his Strongest attack.

 

[SnookB]

Doesn't he hit harder when he transfers his flame to his sword? Zoro seemed far less keen on getting hit by the flame-based attacks than he was by taking kick, slings and arrows, etc..
It just scales above King's every other attack to an unknown degree.

 

[Eseseso]

Also, shouldn't 2-sword Zoro be comparable to Denjiro?

It was noted during their fight that Zoro was keeping up with him.

 

[KingTempest]

Also, shouldn't 2-sword Zoro be comparable to Denjiro?

It was noted during their fight that Zoro was keeping up with him.

#1 This has already been declined on the wiki
#2 I deliberately wrote down that Denjiro scales above the Tobiroppo, AKA Drake who matched Zoro.
#3 Enough

 

[CiscoTheSoto]

What else is left to debate or add? Are there still unfinished sections to the sandboxes?

 

[KingTempest]

We need to make sure the Tobiroppo and Yamato profiles are made

 

[KingTempest]

What feats of scaling does old Hyogoro have

 

[GodlyCharmander]

What feats of scaling does old Hyogoro have

Hyogoro defeated a random gifter.

 

[KingTempest]

Hyogoro defeated a random gifter.

trash unless the average gifter has a quantifiable feat

if you mean alpacaman he needs feats

 

[Damage3245]

Old Hyogoro can just be Unknown.

 

[KingTempest]

trash. alright then