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One Piece: Wano Arc Part 1: AP Revisions; The Dawn

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DemonGodMitchAubin said:
Kong Gatling isn’t a Strongest Attack, that’s a regular Gear 4th move guys, why is it separate from the Kong Gun and Kong Rifle?
Click to expand...
This is like saying a Jet Gatling and a Jet Pistol are the same.

Kong Gatling is definitely a strongest attack
 
KingTempest said:
This is like saying a Jet Gatling and a Jet Pistol are the same.

Kong Gatling is definitely a strongest attack
Click to expand...
They really shouldn’t be separated by a “higher” with strongest attacks if there’s no AP Value change
 
Although I'm neutral on whether or not it's considered one of the "strongest" attacks. Kong Gatling is the result of dozens of Kong Guns. If Jet Gatling has a greater value, then Kong Gatling definitely should (even if it isn't quantifiable) be a "higher" attack based on the fact that it functions the exact same way as Jet Gatling. (It just seems like a greater Kong Organ anyway)
 
SnookB said:
Although I'm neutral on whether or not it's considered one of the "strongest" attacks. Kong Gatling is the result of dozens of Kong Guns. If Jet Gatling has a greater value, then Kong Gatling definitely should (even if it isn't quantifiable) be a "higher" attack based on the fact that it functions the exact same way as Jet Gatling. (It just seems like a greater Kong Organ anyway)
Click to expand...
This.
 
Also, look at what normal G4 attacks do to Kaido (just staggering him a bit and drawing a few drops of blood), vs what Kong Gatling does (repeatedly drawing blood from Kaido, shocking Big Mom with its power, and sending Dragon Kaido reeling into the ground).
 
KingTempest said:
Update:

We're changing them to references

With the way that Shuiesha is cracking down on people, I don't think it's safe for this site if we go and screenshot all their stuff and upload it here, even if others do it

Also, it's better in the long run
Click to expand...
Stupid Shueisha!

They took down an excellently made video showing the entire Luffy vs Kaido fight that used this one great ost.

I get copyright laws, but they are one of those companies that seem obsessed with copyright!

Sorry for derailing.
 
XDragnoir said:
DJ Sanji should scale above Marco as he could send Zoan Queen flying and spinning with an attack while Phoenix Brand failed to do so.

Other than that, i think Zoan/Hybrid Queen are able to scale below but still be in the same value as Marco, given drawing blood isn't enough reason to backscaling IMO (different from Base Queen who got sent flying and was noticeably cut and should thus downscale).
Click to expand...
Bump?
 
I think Post-Udon G4 Luffy should only be A-5 in AP (his durability is fine), since his normal G4 attacks only did a bit of damage to Kaido.

His Kong Gatling shocked Big Mom and actually staggered Kaido for a bit, so I think that can stay at A-6.
 
XDragnoir said:
DJ Sanji should scale above Marco as he could send Zoan Queen flying and spinning with an attack while Phoenix Brand failed to do so.

Other than that, i think Zoan/Hybrid Queen are able to scale below but still be in the same value as Marco, given drawing blood isn't enough reason to backscaling IMO (different from Base Queen who got sent flying and was noticeably cut and should thus downscale).
Click to expand...
I agree
 
Eseseso said:
I think Post-Udon G4 Luffy should only be A-5 in AP (his durability is fine), since his normal G4 attacks only did a bit of damage to Kaido.

His Kong Gatling shocked Big Mom and actually staggered Kaido for a bit, so I think that can stay at A-6.
Click to expand...

I think Luffy is fine where he is by the way, I feel like those are just nit-picks since he should be stronger than Scabbard level for being able to hurt Kaido with G4 punches (and also for powering through his Bolo Breath, which knocked back Oden).

But that's just my opinion, don't take the meme seriously.
 
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XDragnoir said:
DJ Sanji should scale above Marco as he could send Zoan Queen flying and spinning with an attack while Phoenix Brand failed to do so.

Other than that, i think Zoan/Hybrid Queen are able to scale below but still be in the same value as Marco, given drawing blood isn't enough reason to backscaling IMO (different from Base Queen who got sent flying and was noticeably cut and should thus downscale).
Click to expand...
Queen was taking attacks from Sanji better than he did from Marco
Sanji's attacks in definition send people away, regardless of the minimal to maximum damage they do. It's like how Bazooka can send people flying to islands when it doesn't even draw blood.

Zoan and Hybrid Queen slightly backscaling small from Marco, I don't like it for the sole purpose that Queen was getting hurt by Hybrid Marco's equal (Linlin).
On top of that, Marco was toying with him, and only started doing less damage after his stamina was getting shit

So I disagree with that. Scaling above his backscaled rating is fine for me, but scaling to the same value as the people who were dogging on him is an issue
Eseseso said:
I think Post-Udon G4 Luffy should only be A-5 in AP (his durability is fine), since his normal G4 attacks only did a bit of damage to Kaido.

His Kong Gatling shocked Big Mom and actually staggered Kaido for a bit, so I think that can stay at A-6.
Click to expand...
Post-Udon G4th Luffy literally did the most damage to Kaidou in the history of Kaidou's life next to Zoro, Oden, and a later Luffy

Luffy was thrashing him with every single attack he did.

So no, he's fine.
 
KingTempest said:
Queen was taking attacks from Sanji better than he did from Marco
Sanji's attacks in definition send people away, regardless of the minimal to maximum damage they do. It's like how Bazooka can send people flying to islands when it doesn't even draw blood.
Click to expand...
Not really, Sanji could draw blood from Hybrid Queen even in base and the only time Queen wasn't sent flying or knocked back a little from DJ was when Sanji blocked his hair attack against Zoro, while the only time Marco sent Queen flying away was against Base Queen, really not sure how exactly you can interpret that as Marco being somehow > Sanji if both had (at worst) equivalent feats against the same guy.

KingTempest said:
Zoan and Hybrid Queen slightly backscaling small from Marco, I don't like it for the sole purpose that Queen was getting hurt by Hybrid Marco's equal (Linlin).
Click to expand...
Linlin drew much less blood from Queen than Marco, indeed, not even the kick he gave to Base Queen drew as much blood with the impact, only the talons (piercing/cutting damage) got any blood from Queen, which IMO gives some credit to both Phoenix Brand being a stronger attack than Marco's hybrid kicks (other than having a name, which is a weak point i know but supports the idea anyway) and it possibly having some non-explained detail (Marco's flames aren't normal and that's a known fact, but Queen compares that attack to a shockwave).
KingTempest said:
On top of that, Marco was toying with him, and only started doing less damage after his stamina was getting shit
Click to expand...
Ehhhh

Marco was toying with Queen? Like, i can agree on the stamina point cause that's a fact, but how exactly was he toying with Queen? Where is it ever implied he isn't going serious with him? Marco even acknowledges it was hard to fight 1Bi+ opponents, it makes no sense to say that if he is somehow holding back or not taking one of his opponents seriously.
KingTempest said:
So I disagree with that. Scaling above his backscaled rating is fine for me, but scaling to the same value as the people who were dogging on him is an issue
Click to expand...
They weren't really dogging on him? Iirc Marco only attacked Queen twice from what we see (the other two times he uses LS so i am not counting that) and one of those was against Queen's weakest form while the other one used what's possibly one of Marco's strongest attacks.

KingTempest said:
Sending people flying isn't AP
Click to expand...
Sending Base Queen flying is the only reason we're backscaling Base Queen to 760TTs from Marco, so how is it not AP? Cuts from what are pretty much natural daggers isn't reason to backscaling, imagine fighting someone with the same tier as you but they have spikes on their hands and use it to punch your face, even if you can match/block their blows you're still getting ****** by the spikes.
 
Kachon123 said:
Ok, but the thing is that the damage he did to Queen was comparable if not greater the damage Marco did to him.
Click to expand...
"Greater" no, it wasn't.

"Comparable" idk, there is literally no way of measuring Sanji's damage to Queen that is superior in any way, shape, or form to Marco's damage.
Let's talk about Zoan Queen's reaction to Marco's attacks vs Sanji's attacks

Hybrid Marco​

Before we say anything, let it be known that Marco is exhausted. Marco is canonically tired as hell, breathing hard. He even said that Chopper should hurry up, hinting to him not lasting that much longer. So that's that.

For Marco's Phoenix Brand, Queen was coughing out and choking on his own blood from a single attack.
Queen directly says "that hurt" to his Phoenix Brand. Quite blatantly says that his attack hurt.

To his base, Marco sent him flying very far, had him screaming "Gaaah" and left a mark on his face with a different attack.

Pre-Awakening Sanji​

First things first we already know Sanji has dura neg, but even with that he shows inferior feats.

Sanji's first attack to Queen was when he intercepted his metal teeth bite (and broke the metal teeth) with a Rotisserie Strike. He sent him spinning and he made him hit the floor.
Basic science.
Aside from the fact that Sanji's attacks always send people flying (even when it doesn't hurt them)

Sanji sent Vergo flying with a Flanchet Strike and noted that he used Tekkai from the lack of damage he took. Still sent him flying.
Sanji sent Jabra flying with a Cuisseau Shoot and he got up immediately. Relatively fine.
Sanji and Bon Clay sent each other flying and they were fine.
Sanji has been sent flying before with no damage.

Sanji sent him flying because a lot of his attacks send people flying, regardless of if they hurt or not, which is why Queen has no wounds or coughed blood from that.
Sanji sent him falling because he targeted his head. Targetting his head drastically shat on his center of gravity, which is what targetting the head does, making him fall. He hit him in the side of his face. Sending his head flying as well is on top of that.

Sanji's Collier Strike only did anything because he blew up the laser in his mouth.

Queen then goes hybrid, which drastically lowers his bodymass and size, making it easier to knock him around (source? science).

Then Sanji kicks him back. Does no damage, just knocks him back.
Sanji's Mouton Mallet didn't hurt Queen at all. Queen said that he didn't even feel it. Already that puts that technique drastically ridiculously below Phoenix Brand, which he says hurt him.
Sanji hits him with a Grill Shot and admits that he needs a better way to get through his dino toughness. Queen compliments the hit, but doesn't give it props on damage.
That mark isn't a legitimate wound. It's on all of Sanji's grill shot victims. It's just an effect that goes away very quickly, like it did on Surume.

Post-Awakening Sanji​

Next, Sanji hits him with a nasty Hell Memories hit, which was ridiculously off guard via his attacker being invisible and he sent him flying.
Queen jumped up from it casually and was talking about something completely unrelated to the fight, AKA the damage wasn't enough to make him seethe in pain or anything.

Sanji then broke his metal arm with a regular DJ kick. If his Hell Memories barely phased Queen but he broke his mech arm, his mech arm < his body's dura.
He hit him with a Flanchet Flayer. He pretty much blatantly says that he put him on his knees cause of the last attack and the combination of the damage of all of his attacks, AKA, not this move alone.

Ifrit Jambe is self explanatory.

Conclusion​

A tired Marco's first hit on a peak health Queen was enough to make Queen note that the attack hurt him, and he spit out massive amounts of blood and choked on the blood as well, all from hitting him in his chest which is meters away from his mouth.

Sanji didn't do anything to Queen until he was awakened and Queen was tired.

So outside of Ifrit Jambe on the partially unconscious injured tired Queen, I'm confused on where Sanji does more damage to Marco
 
KingTempest said:
"Greater" no, it wasn't.

"Comparable" idk, there is literally no way of measuring Sanji's damage to Queen that is superior in any way, shape, or form to Marco's damage.
Let's talk about Zoan Queen's reaction to Marco's attacks vs Sanji's attacks

Hybrid Marco​

Before we say anything, let it be known that Marco is exhausted. Marco is canonically tired as hell, breathing hard. He even said that Chopper should hurry up, hinting to him not lasting that much longer. So that's that.

For Marco's Phoenix Brand, Queen was coughing out and choking on his own blood from a single attack.
Queen directly says "that hurt" to his Phoenix Brand. Quite blatantly says that his attack hurt.

To his base, Marco sent him flying very far, had him screaming "Gaaah" and left a mark on his face with a different attack.

Pre-Awakening Sanji​

First things first we already know Sanji has dura neg, but even with that he shows inferior feats.

Sanji's first attack to Queen was when he intercepted his metal teeth bite (and broke the metal teeth) with a Rotisserie Strike. He sent him spinning and he made him hit the floor.
Basic science.
Aside from the fact that Sanji's attacks always send people flying (even when it doesn't hurt them)

Sanji sent Vergo flying with a Flanchet Strike and noted that he used Tekkai from the lack of damage he took. Still sent him flying.
Sanji sent Jabra flying with a Cuisseau Shoot and he got up immediately. Relatively fine.
Sanji and Bon Clay sent each other flying and they were fine.
Sanji has been sent flying before with no damage.

Sanji sent him flying because a lot of his attacks send people flying, regardless of if they hurt or not, which is why Queen has no wounds or coughed blood from that.
Sanji sent him falling because he targeted his head. Targetting his head drastically shat on his center of gravity, which is what targetting the head does, making him fall. He hit him in the side of his face. Sending his head flying as well is on top of that.

Sanji's Collier Strike only did anything because he blew up the laser in his mouth.

Queen then goes hybrid, which drastically lowers his bodymass and size, making it easier to knock him around (source? science).

Then Sanji kicks him back. Does no damage, just knocks him back.
Sanji's Mouton Mallet didn't hurt Queen at all. Queen said that he didn't even feel it. Already that puts that technique drastically ridiculously below Phoenix Brand, which he says hurt him.
Sanji hits him with a Grill Shot and admits that he needs a better way to get through his dino toughness. Queen compliments the hit, but doesn't give it props on damage.
That mark isn't a legitimate wound. It's on all of Sanji's grill shot victims. It's just an effect that goes away very quickly, like it did on Surume.

Post-Awakening Sanji​

Next, Sanji hits him with a nasty Hell Memories hit, which was ridiculously off guard via his attacker being invisible and he sent him flying.
Queen jumped up from it casually and was talking about something completely unrelated to the fight, AKA the damage wasn't enough to make him seethe in pain or anything.

Sanji then broke his metal arm with a regular DJ kick. If his Hell Memories barely phased Queen but he broke his mech arm, his mech arm < his body's dura.
He hit him with a Flanchet Flayer. He pretty much blatantly says that he put him on his knees cause of the last attack and the combination of the damage of all of his attacks, AKA, not this move alone.

Ifrit Jambe is self explanatory.

Conclusion​

A tired Marco's first hit on a peak health Queen was enough to make Queen note that the attack hurt him, and he spit out massive amounts of blood and choked on the blood as well, all from hitting him in his chest which is meters away from his mouth.

Sanji didn't do anything to Queen until he was awakened and Queen was tired.

So outside of Ifrit Jambe on the partially unconscious injured tired Queen, I'm confused on where Sanji does more damage to Marco
Click to expand...
I can agree to most of this, but Base Sanji did make Hybrid Queen cough up blood in Chapter 1022, that wasn’t no damage
 
DemonGodMitchAubin said:
I can agree to most of this, but Base Sanji did make Hybrid Queen cough up blood in Chapter 1022, that wasn’t no damage
Click to expand...
Base Sanji can scale slightly in dura, supports his slight backscaling from clashing with him

But it was a minuscule amount of blood compared to the 2 attacks we see Marco land
 
KingTempest said:
Base Sanji can scale slightly in dura, supports his slight backscaling from clashing with him

But it was a minuscule amount of blood compared to the 2 attacks we see Marco land
Click to expand...
Obviously yeah

Sanji doesn’t have anything above or equal to Marco until he gets Ifrit Jambe
 
Anyways

Who wants to start working on the Wano and up Luffy profile?
 
Speaking of profile, the AP section for Post Timeskip Chopper was never updated after the post timeskip revisions.
 
I made 3 keys for Kanjuro

Himself | Fude Fude Soldiers | Kazenbo

Similar to Cracker and the Biscuit Soldiers
 
SnookB said:
"(after the punch expanded, he punched him hard enough to send him flying deep into the planet, leaving a dragon shaped crater and completely breaking his horn)"

That's the justification fo Bajrang Gun. I feel like "deep into the planet" is a bit of an exaggeration. It would make sense if the country itself wasn't like 20+ kilometers in the air and its magma chamber is just over the sea floor-
Maybe "flying deep into the country's crust" or "Send him far enough to land in Wanokuni's magma chamber" would be better? People are gonna misunderstand the heck outta that otherwise
Click to expand...
I don't think it was deep into the planet, just deep into the country grounds. He was only sent into the volcano section. Also is Kaidou going to be given heat resistance since he was shown just floating in the magma instead of dissolving, implying he can possibly survive magma

Edit: also just remembered that the One Piece planet is absolutely gigantic. So Kaidou falling deep into it implies he fell into like, the crust of the planet, or something. When in reality he was only sent through one island.
 
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vsbattles.fandom.com

KingTempest16/One Piece AP (Wano)

vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com

Added all the references

I removed this from WB"s dura
It took the combined efforts from all three Admirals to do sufficient enough damage to Whitebeard to weaken him to the point in which Blackbeard could harm him. However, he did not die until after the Blackbeard pirates combined their efforts and attacked him in tandem only after Akainu had already taken part of his head and put a hole in his abdomen, having already put him in a severely weakened and lethargic state compounded with his declining health
Click to expand...

Because none of this is durability. It's endurance.

@DemonGodMitchAubin @Damage3245 @Eminiteable @XDragnoir @CloverDragon03 @SnookB @GodlyCharmander @Therefir and everybody else I failed to mention, remind me if there's anything I failed to add
 
KingTempest said:
vsbattles.fandom.com

KingTempest16/One Piece AP (Wano)

vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com

Added all the references

I removed this from WB"s dura


Because none of this is durability. It's endurance.

@DemonGodMitchAubin @Damage3245 @Eminiteable @XDragnoir @CloverDragon03 @SnookB @GodlyCharmander @Therefir and everybody else I failed to mention, remind me if there's anything I failed to add
Click to expand...
This is still worded a little strange to be tbh- (Awakened Luffy's Bajrang Gun justification)
".. after the punch expanded, he punched him hard enough to send him flying deep into the planet" A more accurate description would be "punched him hard enough to send him flying deep into the country's underground"

I'll look into the rest in a bit, but beautifully done with the references, KT! And thank you for your hard work especially when you did it even though you hate'em
 
Eminiteable said:
Base Kaidou's durability section could include the fact that Kid didn't think it was possible to harm him with physical attacks despite his feats of hurting Big Mom, giving Base Kaidou's durability support for being more durable than Big Mom.
Click to expand...
Eminiteable said:
When you add values to the sandbox Zoro's 1st Wano key's Buso rating would be 716.4 GT instead of 477.6 GT due to performing those early raid feats in Nitoryu. His base rating would also still scale to his dressrosa base rating for the same reasons.
Click to expand...
Only things that I can think of are these.
 
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