• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

One Piece: Kenbunshoku Reactions

MonkeyOfLife said:
Don't think your allowed to link something like that here 🤔

True... Kingtempest does need to relax

But.... HOLT SHIT NOW IM ANGRY... HOW THE F WAS I NOT RELAXED WITH WHAT I SAID... IF I WASN'T RELAXED, WHY DID I GIVE YOU A LINK TO WHERE YOU CAN ANSWER THAT QUESTION...

Man, humans are bs
Click to expand...
What
 
ssgengar said:
What
Click to expand...
Idk, basically with that reply is when you say relax, not to the other comment

And it usually makes me mad when there is misinformation or something, especially when I fully know the information 🤔

But its nothing
 
KingTempest said:
Screen_Shot_2022-09-10_at_8.32.07_PM.png


Cut that Mihawk talk out
Click to expand...
Quick question but how does this prove luffy used future sight?
 
Trax said:
what?
Click to expand...
There's different levels of precognition, short term like Spider-Man's spidey sense, larger versions like Kata's future sight.
Regular Kenbun has danger sense precognition, advanced has future sight
 
I don't know how to bring this up again other than to say I'm disappointed that no-one has responded to my point about the front end of the laser appearing to be far past Luffy's head in the panel where he says "Slow...." If y'all think that's irrelevant, or that I have a bad interpretation of the visuals, just say so. Don't just ignore arguments.

That's a interpretation. He doesn't need to see it in slow motion to call it slow. A punch as fast as me would be slow if I have an ability to read movements as well.
That's why we're saying he should have LS reactions.

I think you can call a punch as fast as you too slow to hit you if you have the ability to read movements well.

I also think you can call a laser 1% faster than you too slow to hit you if it's fired in a straight line.

Same with 2% faster, and so on. I'd think it starts becoming unreasonable somewhere in the 5-10x faster range.

I can understand you drawing that line somewhere else, but I think it's really strange to draw it at 1% faster.
 
Agnaa said:
I don't know how to bring this up again other than to say I'm disappointed that no-one has responded to my point about the front end of the laser appearing to be far past Luffy's head in the panel where he says "Slow...." If y'all think that's irrelevant, or that I have a bad interpretation of the visuals, just say so. Don't just ignore arguments.
Click to expand...
Sure it's past luffys head... But the whole laser is still there beside luffy's head when saying it's too slow
 
That's something that happens for most lasers; they keep firing.
 
Agnaa said:
That's something that happens for most lasers; they keep firing.
Click to expand...
Hmm? Let's say we cut the laser to where it's besides luffys head... There's still no difference besides luffy looking at the front of the laser instead of the side of the laser...
 
Looking at the side of the laser is far easier. I can literally do that IRL.
 
IRL lasers do move at light speed, yet I can still look at the side of them. Because it keeps firing for long enough for a portion of the laser to remain there, despite my human-level reactions.

The important feat is following the front-end of a laser, since that does change position at light speed.
 
Agnaa said:
IRL lasers do move at light speed, yet I can still look at the side of them. Because it keeps firing for long enough for a portion of the laser to remain there, despite my human-level reactions.
Click to expand...
Either you have much higher than just human-level reactions, or you're wrong.
 
Agnaa said:
IRL lasers do move at light speed, yet I can still look at the side of them. Because it keeps firing for long enough for a portion of the laser to remain there, despite my human-level reactions.

The important feat is following the front-end of a laser, since that does change position at light speed.
Click to expand...
So you are saying a laser beam flying at someone, you'll be able to see it because you are watching it from the side... that makes no sense

For example somethings like this to us would seem like he instantly reformed himself
0510-003.png

We wouldn't say ahh... Look at those light particles moving to reform kizaru
 
Neutral on Enel
Disagree with Luffy using Kenbun to dodge Pacifista's light beam. For me his reactions should be SoL and higher with Kenbun. Since there aren't solid evidences that proves that he indeed used Kenbun to dodge that. I'd say that is by the contrary, once Pacifistas doesn't have a mind to be read, they wouldn't be able to do it, or sense their intentions. It was a "raw" reaction speed feat from Luffy.
 
Agnaa said:
IRL lasers do move at light speed, yet I can still look at the side of them. Because it keeps firing for long enough for a portion of the laser to remain there, despite my human-level reactions.

The important feat is following the front-end of a laser, since that does change position at light speed.
Click to expand...
These lasers aren't maintained like light fang, they are projectiles

They aren't standing still like this
0512-007.png
 
Nanashi said:
Neutral on Enel
Disagree with Luffy using Kenbun to dodge Pacifista's light beam. For me his reactions should be SoL and higher with Kenbun. Since there aren't solid evidences that proves that he indeed used Kenbun to dodge that. I'd say that is by the contrary, once Pacifistas doesn't have a mind to be read, they wouldn't be able to do it, or sense their intentions. It was a "raw" reaction speed feat from Luffy.
Click to expand...
Obs haki does increase your senses/reaction speed tho, but you right that there isn't proof of him using it that instance or any where else like for example databooks never used that feat for obs haki from what I have seen
 
I won't be able to watch it travel, but I would be able to look at the beam due to its constancy.

Even if the laser fired at Luffy did expire relatively quickly, it still looks to have stayed for a good few dozen meters, only requiring, like, 2% SoL reactions to glance at the side of the beam.
 
Well since there's no proof of it being observation haki, the OP should be changed to Luffy's reactions instead right?
 
Agnaa said:
I won't be able to watch it travel, but I would be able to look at the beam due to its constancy.

Even if the laser fired at Luffy did expire relatively quickly, it still looks to have stayed for a good few dozen meters, only requiring, like, 2% SoL reactions to glance at the side of the beam.
Click to expand...
But right now, you are talking about the feat of your interpretation of it vs a statement about the laser from luffy when dodging it

You say you can call the thing slow but things be faster than you... Yet you can also say slow and be faster than it... So that argument doesn't mean anything

What matters is luffy calling the laser slow while it's even moving... The movement of it is slow, which is why it's reaction speed and not luffy's movement speed that we are talking about.
 
Last edited:
Agnaa said:
I don't know how to bring this up again other than to say I'm disappointed that no-one has responded to my point about the front end of the laser appearing to be far past Luffy's head in the panel where he says "Slow...." If y'all think that's irrelevant, or that I have a bad interpretation of the visuals, just say so. Don't just ignore arguments.

That's a interpretation. He doesn't need to see it in slow motion to call it slow. A punch as fast as me would be slow if I have an ability to read movements as well.
That's why we're saying he should have LS reactions.

I think you can call a punch as fast as you too slow to hit you if you have the ability to read movements well.

I also think you can call a laser 1% faster than you too slow to hit you if it's fired in a straight line.

Same with 2% faster, and so on. I'd think it starts becoming unreasonable somewhere in the 5-10x faster range.

I can understand you drawing that line somewhere else, but I think it's really strange to draw it at 1% faster.
Click to expand...
You do know that luffy didn't use observation haki, it was never stated that he did. It's just an argument people try to use. Only time luffy is even stated to use haki in that whole interaction is when he hit the px bots. So really I don't even know why this argument exists. And the rest is just making up arguments just for the sake of making up arguments.

p_00012.png

p_00013.png

Evidence right here, literally context shows he that the bowl cut dude was talking about armament haki and not observation. Its a pointless argument to try to claim luffy was using observation haki at that time when its never shown or stated. The actual time luffy first uses observation after pts is in his fight against hody jones shark white drug form.

p_00007.png
 
Last edited:
You say you can call the thing slow but things be faster than you... Yet you can also say slow and be faster than it... So that argument doesn't mean anything

It's relevant because people are arguing that because Luffy said that he has to be SoL. I'm saying that there's another interpretation, which I think is more likely.

You do know that luffy didn't use observation haki, it was never stated that he did. It's just an argument people try to use. Only time luffy is even stated to use haki in that whole interaction is when he hit the px bots. So really I don't even know why this argument exists.

I never said that Luffy used observation haki.
 
Agnaa said:
You say you can call the thing slow but things be faster than you... Yet you can also say slow and be faster than it... So that argument doesn't mean anything

It's relevant because people are arguing that because Luffy said that he has to be SoL. I'm saying that there's another interpretation, which I think is more likely.

You do know that luffy didn't use observation haki, it was never stated that he did. It's just an argument people try to use. Only time luffy is even stated to use haki in that whole interaction is when he hit the px bots. So really I don't even know why this argument exists.

I never said that Luffy used observation haki.
Click to expand...
"
That's a interpretation. He doesn't need to see it in slow motion to call it slow. A punch as fast as me would be slow if I have an ability to read movements as well.
That's why we're saying he should have LS reactions.

I think you can call a punch as fast as you too slow to hit you if you have the ability to read movements well.

I also think you can call a laser 1% faster than you too slow to hit you if it's fired in a straight line.

Same with 2% faster, and so on. I'd think it starts becoming unreasonable somewhere in the 5-10x faster range.

I can understand you drawing that line somewhere else, but I think it's really strange to draw it at 1% faster.


You said this, what else could you have meant by "reading movements" you're trying to downplay luffy.
B8cAZ3QMTZG5MaHiBEzU5MABtFYAhncruXj_Yjd9OaoOlYKUF5afgyIIEZx2ibu9o3z5AQ=s85
 
Agnaa said:
It's relevant because people are arguing that because people said that he has to be SoL. I'm saying that there's another interpretation, which I think is more likely.
Click to expand...
Because of the statement and what hes referring to with that statement... You are talking about an interpretation of luffys movement speed with the laser...

It's not just using a different interpretation, it's using a whole different method which does not use assumptions or as much assumptions as the thing you are talking about, it's luffy calling the laser slow while it's moving

Also instinct monkey here... I sense bs and controlling methods
 
Why are you guys arguing on luffy's movement speed using pixel calc or an assumption based on how much he moved to dodge it. That doesn't matter even if he were moving slower than light speed which I don't think he was, the light attack was certainly moving at ls. And luffy saw that as slow, therefore his reaction speed should be above ls. Plus wasn't this about if observation haki users automatically qualify for lightspeed reaction?
 
Agnaa said:
I don't know how to bring this up again other than to say I'm disappointed that no-one has responded to my point about the front end of the laser appearing to be far past Luffy's head in the panel where he says "Slow...." If y'all think that's irrelevant, or that I have a bad interpretation of the visuals, just say so. Don't just ignore arguments
Click to expand...
Because it's grasping at straws. Plain and simple. We are not saying Luffy should follow the laser with his eyes and slow motion like he's in that one Spider-Man scene, or like he's Barry Allen.

Furthermore, this is a non-issue, we don't see the "before" or "present", the panel just show us the aftermath. Luffy may have been looking at the laser and when it got past him, just threw the line. Of course it's jutdt a hypothesis. We have no way of knowing, so it's a moot point for both sides.

Agnaa said:
That's a interpretation. He doesn't need to see it in slow motion to call it slow. A punch as fast as me would be slow if I have an ability to read movements as well.
That's why we're saying he should have LS reactions.

I think you can call a punch as fast as you too slow to hit you if you have the ability to read movements well.

I also think you can call a laser 1% faster than you too slow to hit you if it's fired in a straight line.

Same with 2% faster, and so on. I'd think it starts becoming unreasonable somewhere in the 5-10x faster range.

I can understand you drawing that line somewhere else, but I think it's really strange to draw it at 1% faster.
Click to expand...
You see, this can go both ways, it may go upwards as well. But you do agree that putting your character at a situation where he says "X thing is slow" is a direct indicative that your character is not slower than said thing, right? Why would Oda send mixed messages to the viewer, this doesn't make sense from a writing standpoint which we do have to consider.

But what you're ignoring is, Luffy already had a reaction around 0.5c, or half the speed of light before training. Now, he is so fast that he can speedblitz character who could absolutely fodderized his past self. Not only does it make senpse with his massive speed boost over the last two years, but it also have no tangible consequences in the scaling whatsoever, as the feat of blitzing Luffy's reactions has yet to happen, the closest one to do that being Kaidou, a faster-than-light opponent. I believe the line works as a perfect supporting evidence for this.
 
You said this, what else could you have meant by "reading movements" you're trying to downplay luffy.

The person I was responding to, GodlyCharmander, said that, and I was continuing to engage in his hypothetical.

I do not care one iota about whether Luffy did it with haki or not, and I don't know how to evaluate whether he did. I'm just responding to people in the thread using the words that they use. Go argue with Godly if you want to discuss this point.

Because of the statement and what hes referring to with that statement... You are talking about an interpretation of luffys movement speed with the laser...

It's not just using a different interpretation, it's using a whole different method which does not use assumptions or as much assumptions as the thing you are talking about, it's luffy calling the laser slow while it's moving

I don't really understand what you're saying here.

Why are you guys arguing on luffy's movement speed using pixel calc or an assumption based on how much he moved to dodge it. That doesn't matter even if he were moving slower than light speed which I don't think he was, the light attack was certainly moving at ls. And luffy saw that as slow, therefore his reaction speed should be above ls. Plus wasn't this about if observation haki users automatically qualify for lightspeed reaction?

Reaction speed requires movement.

Having SoL perception speed requires being able to process that a lightspeed object has started moving before it has traveled more than 1 meter.

Because it's grasping at straws. Plain and simple. We are not saying Luffy should follow the laser with his eyes and slow motion like he's in that one Spider-Man scene, or like he's Barry Allen.

Furthermore, this is a non-issue, we don't see the "before" or "present", the panel just show us the aftermath. Luffy may have been looking at the laser and when it got past him, just threw the line. Of course it's jutdt a hypothesis. We have no way of knowing, so it's a moot point for both sides.

I saw other people arguing otherwise, but if you think it's a moot point, I'm fine with dropping it.

You see, this can go both ways, it may go upwards as well. But you do agree that putting your character at a situation where he says "X thing is slow" is a direct indicative that your character is not slower than said thing, right? Why would Oda send mixed messages to the viewer, this doesn't make sense from a writing standpoint which we do have to consider.

I've repeated this over and over again, but to say it one more time.

"X thing is slow" is a different statement than dodging X and saying "Too slow".

Yes, the object being referred to is X, but the context is different.

A lot of times, characters call something "too slow" to mean "that object is moving at a speed which is insufficient to hit me", and that can occur while being slower than the object, if the object's movements are telegraphed.

I don't think it's sending mixed messages to fall into that really common trope.

Or in other words, "Slow" does not always mean "Slower than me", it can mean "Not fast enough to deal with me".

But what you're ignoring is, Luffy already had a reaction around 0.5c, or half the speed of light before training. Now, he is so fast that he can speedblitz character who could absolutely fodderized his past self. Not only does it make senpse with his massive speed boost over the last two years, but it also have no tangible consequences in the scaling whatsoever, as the feat of blitzing Luffy's reactions has yet to happen, the closest one to do that being Kaidou, a faster-than-light opponent. I believe the line works as a perfect supporting evidence for this.

We usually give "At least (old rating)" in those sorts of situations. We don't assume multipliers, and we don't stack calcs to get higher results off of those blitzes. So if the main crux is that stuff, I don't think it's sufficient to solidly give a new rating.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

MonkeyOfLife
Minor Observation Haki addition
Replies
17
Views
4K
MonkeyOfLife
MonkeyOfLife
The_one_you_least_expect
Very Small Kenbunshoku Haki CRT
2 3 4
Replies
138
Views
7K
The_one_you_least_expect
The_one_you_least_expect
LordGinSama
Kenbunshoku Haki: Low tier addition
Replies
18
Views
2K
SlendVeny
SlendVeny
Ryuga21
  • Locked
Gear 5th Luffy: Time-Stop ability addition.
Replies
25
Views
5K
Damage3245
Damage3245
Ryuga21
Minor One Piece ability additions
Replies
38
Views
3K
Ryuga21
Ryuga21
Back
Top