One Piece: Kenbunshoku Reactions

[KingTempest]

https://vsbattles.com/threads/isshiki-rod-to-reactions-blitzing.141871/

Because people are petty, we need to spell everything out on the profiles.

Many Kenbunshoku users should have Lightspeed Reactions added to their profiles.

Enel is one, as he can sense and read electromagnetic signals which move at the speed of light.
Luffy is another, as he called light slow. We already accept this, so just add it.

Everyone with superior Kenbunshoku to these 2 should have lightspeed or higher Kenbunshoku reactions. People like Katakuri and Kaidou for instance.

 

[Duedate8898]

I don't see how sensing and reading electromagnetic signals would make Enel lightspeed? Normal people can sense light, yet none of us have lightspeed reactions. And unless Enel is reading these signals at lightspeed (which we'd need a statement or scan saying he does), he wouldn't get lightspeed from reading them either.

And calling a light attack slow also isn't luffy saying he's lightspeed or that he reacts at the speed of light. Shouldn't that instance just be calced instead so we know what actual speed Luffy is reacting at?

And saying we already accepted it I don't think works here, because even in that thread, none of what I'm bringing up is covered.

Also, add some scans of all this.

Until then, I'm going to not agree with this upgrade.

 

[Romeu08]

Agree with Luffy
Needs more elaboration on Enel

 

[Nierre]

Neutral

 

[TauanVictor]

I agree with Luffy, I'm neutral about Enel.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

No idea what happened in that thread, but I agree with Luffy, I feel like a calc would lead to a higher value anyway. Dunno about Enel.

 

[SnookB]

Neutral, leaning to disagree on Enel since it could be AOE sensory based, but fully agree with Luffy and using him as a benchmark.
Though I feel it should only apply to those who scale to his base speed post ts and have confirmed Kenbun.

 

[Damage3245]

I don't see how sensing and reading electromagnetic signals would make Enel lightspeed? Normal people can sense light, yet none of us have lightspeed reactions. And unless Enel is reading these signals at lightspeed (which we'd need a statement or scan saying he does), he wouldn't get lightspeed from reading them either.

And calling a light attack slow also isn't luffy saying he's lightspeed or that he reacts at the speed of light. Shouldn't that instance just be calced instead so we know what actual speed Luffy is reacting at?

I agree with this.

.

 

[SnookB]

I agree with this.

.

Since Naruto used anime as secondary canon for that feat, and One Piece's anime is currently being held on a pedestal for certain feats, should we not use the anime for that since it clarifies the distance travelled and the frame at which the projectile was dodged, rather than just saying 'it was one panel' and assuming everything else?

 

[Damage3245]

Since Naruto used anime as secondary canon for that feat, and One Piece's anime is currently being held on a pedestal for certain feats, should we not use the anime for that since it clarifies the distance travelled and the frame at which the projectile was dodged, rather than just saying 'it was one panel' and assuming everything else?

I thought the whole point of a separate thread being made for One Piece was so that both the Naruto and One Piece feats wouldn't be talked about together in the same thread? Weren't you just complaining about OP being brought up in the other thread?

 

[SnookB]

I thought the whole point of a separate thread being made for One Piece was so that both the Naruto and One Piece feats wouldn't be talked about together in the same thread? Weren't you just complaining about OP being brought up in the other thread?

The whole reason this thread exists is because the Naruto thread was petty. It's linked in the OP, so it's entirely relevant to that issue at hand.

 

[Damage3245]

The whole reason this thread exists is because the Naruto thread was petty. It's linked in the OP, so it's entirely relevant to that issue at hand.

How is the Naruto thread petty? The opening post doesn't even bring up One Piece at all. The Naruto thread was made just because someone was trying to calc a feat for the Boruto cast.

To answer your question though, we have this note on the OP anime:

Regarding the canon: In terms of canon material, this wiki deems the manga as the primary canon. The anime is considered secondary canon on a case by case basis. In the case of anime, it contradicts statements, feats, personalities, and abilities of characters in many cases. This happens with censorship, filler content in canon material, and pacing. Since we have confirmation that Oda approves certain scenes in the anime, we've decided to take the anime as canon in the areas where it perfectly or similarly represents the manga, and the scenes not shown in the manga that are represented in the anime will be deemed as filler.

 

[SnookB]

How is the Naruto thread petty?

Unless we aren't looking at the same thread, I don't need to anwer that.
They dragged a whole different verse into it for the sake of comparaison that isn't even accurate at all.

That aside, my question still stands. We're waiting on the anime to catch up for the Momo onigashima drop feat, and for the cloud split, and we used the anime despite the fact that it had an entirely different interpertation to reject Fujitora's meteorite.
Why not use it for Luffy dodging the light beam? It's awkwardly inconsistent to just rely on on occasion, especially for a feat like this where the dodge-frame itself matters.

 

[Damage3245]

Answered the question up above.

In this case, the anime scene is too different to the manga scene.

 

[KingTempest]

It’s not that different tbh

 

[SnookB]

Answered the question up above.

In this case, the anime scene is too different to the manga scene.

It gives you 3 different lasers to work with and choose which one's safer to use. If not, then the last one's dodge is the only one intended to match the panel, then we can use that.

 

[Kachon123]

Agree with Luffy.

 

[Romeu08]

Using the anime should be fine
There are 2 options
Use the anime to get a frame to calc
Keep sol reactions since its the stated reaction time

 

[Damage3245]

Using the anime should be fine
There are 2 options
Use the anime to get a frame to calc
Keep sol reactions since its the stated reaction time

There is not a stated timeframe reaction.

Anime is frequently not used because it is too different to the manga; this would be a clear case of the anime changing the actual context of the feat. The anime is filled with inconsistent moments that would be awful downgrades if we used all of them. It would be inconsistent to use this one just because it would provide an upgrade.

 

[SnookB]

this would be a clear case of the anime changing the actual context of the feat.

But it didn't. It added to the context, yes, but the last laser dodge and the main 2 panel reaction are the exact same and nothing implies otherwise.
The same case was for Greenbit's meteorite having a shockwave whereas in the manga we only see the fireball impact and yet it still passed as acceptable 'secondary canon' for the feat. Either we do it all or don't do it at all. If the feat is entirely contradicting the the manga (like miss doublefinger turning her head before vs after in the anime and manga) then that's blatantly wrong and shouldn't be used, but if the context in this case remains
"beam is fired
Luffy dodges"
then it's not unacceptable. Or shouldn't be at least.

 

[theultimate5105]

Heavily disagree on Enel
Neutral for Luffy

 

[Agnaa]

I share DueDate's concerns.

idk enough about the anime to determine whether it should be used in calcing the laser dodge or not.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Enel is one, as he can sense and read electromagnetic signals which move at the speed of light.

I personally agree with this, since I think when enel is moving through conductors? He travels 90% the speed of light and not only could he react to himself but another obs haki user could as well (the kid), something luffy and Nami couldn't, who both did not have obs haki at that time

That's a very good justification/support of it to me personally

Luffy is another, as he called light slow. We already accept this, so just add it.

Agree with this as well

 

[Romeu08]

I personally agree with this, since I think when enel is moving through conductors? He travels 90% the speed of light and not only could he react to himself but another obs haki user could as well (the kid), something luffy and Nami couldn't, who both don't have obs haki at that time

That's a very good justification/support of it to me personally

Agree with this as well

I agree with enel proposal, seems to make
Luffy don't scale to this conducting speed tho iirc

 

[Mazdoesstuff]

If Advanced OBS is Precognition, why would it be listed as a speed thing? As far as I know we don’t list future seeing abilities for speed

Edit: Nvm didn’t read OP. Disagree on Enel part for reasoning but this is cool

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Obs haki isn't just precog, it enhances all of your senses and more...

Sharpen your senses and realize the presence!
It is a high spirit that detects the presence of creatures around you and their emotions. It is effective not only in battle, but also in foreseeing and avoiding danger!

Also it makes sense that those who dislike or are consistently against one piece at all times every time I see them, be the one who disagrees... That shouldn't be a thing. They are here to disagree and nothing else, even if proof is brought up they will just stay quiet which is a trash/toxic environment to be in... That's how I see it

 

[Mazdoesstuff]

Also it makes sense that those who dislike or are consistently against one piece at all times every time I see them, be the one who disagrees... That shouldn't be a thing. They are here to disagree and nothing else, even if proof is brought up they will just stay quiet which is a trash/toxic environment to be in... That's how I see it

Stop instigating lol, One Piece is one of the most popular verses on here.. I already said I agree with the changes, just that Enel’s reasoning doesn’t work for reasons already said

 

[Agnaa]

This post

This stuff about this One Piece calc is, I think, the second time I've contributed to any discussions about One Piece. The first time was for an issue I thought I noticed with the 6-C calc, but I merely misread it, and after people helped me realise that, I retracted my concerns.

I just don't know much about One Piece, due to not reading it, so I can't point out new additions. All I can do is see people making arguments that are imo against the site's standards, and argue against them.

If me quickly changing my mind on the 6-C calc isn't sufficient, the best other comparison would be this thread; I knew nothing about Bleach coming into it, and based on the evidence presented, my view on the matter flip-flopped half a dozen times, from supporting upgrades to opposing them.

I'm sad that you've got that sorta view of me, but I hope that my actions will speak loud enough to eventually change that view.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Stop instigating lol, One Piece is one of the most popular verses on here.. I already said I agree with the changes, just that Enel’s reasoning doesn’t work for reasons already said

Not really talking about you... Haven't seen much of you but I will 100% say what I have to say instead of being quiet and let something like that keep happening

It's not that's it's popular, it's literally the same ones only coming to disagree and when there's more proof brought up... They usually just stay quiet and leave... I won't derail about this tho, I have said what I needed to say... Won't reply about this.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

This post

This stuff about this One Piece calc is, I think, the second time I've contributed to any discussions about One Piece. The first time was for an issue I thought I noticed with the 6-C calc, but I merely misread it, and after people helped me realise that, I retracted my concerns.

I just don't know much about One Piece, due to not reading it, so I can't point out new additions. All I can do is see people making arguments that are imo against the site's standards, and argue against them.

If me quickly changing my mind on the 6-C calc isn't sufficient, the best other comparison would be this thread; I knew nothing about Bleach coming into it, and based on the evidence presented, my view on the matter flip-flopped half a dozen times, from supporting upgrades to opposing them.

I'm sad that you've got that sorta view of me, but I hope that my actions will speak loud enough to eventually change that view.

No no, I like you... It's not about you

 

[Deceived3596]

Agnaa's aboutta go on Monkey's evil tier list if he keeps disagreeing with anything OP related

 

[Nierre]

Neutral

Meant to say neutral about Enel*

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Disagree

I hate One Piece

 

[Kachon123]

Based

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

I guess I'll just show how every obs haki user reacts to and deals with light speed?

Like I don't know what to show because idk

I'm too confused with what I'm trying to prove right now... soo bye for now , I'll wait for tempest

 

[GodlyCharmander]

Yeah, the Enel section is just terrible, ngl. Receiving information to you at the speed of light does not mean you can react to said information at that speed, or even process it.

You receive visual information at the speed of light, no? I wouldn't say you have Lightspeed Reactions.

So yeah, not agreeing with that.

About Luffy, nah, it's pretty blatant. Calling light slow shouldn't have contention, you are quite literally claming the speed of the object is low in comparison to you. All I see above here is people dancing around the evidence. Either way, I agree with that.

 

[GodlyCharmander]

Btw, we're not using the anime version, it's literally a different feat entirely.

 

[Damage3245]

A laser beam being too slow to hit you from a distance doesn't mean that you have to have 0.000000003336 second reaction times.

(Especially when Luffy could see the Pacifista directly in front of him charging the beam to fire at him)

 

[GodlyCharmander]

A laser beam being too slow to hit you from a distance doesn't mean that you have to have 0.000000003336 second reaction times.

(Especially when Luffy could see the Pacifista directly in front of him charging the beam to fire at him)

Well, it's a good thing we're not considering the feat, but Luffy's line about how fast light is to him. The casual sub-rel to rel feat is of no concern to the argument.

 

[Agnaa]

I don't think "too slow" means "I see that object in slow motion" or "I can run more quickly than that object". I think it just means "that attack is too slow to hit me", which can happen even if you're several times slower.

If the line was more specific I'd be okay with FTL reactions. But it isn't, so I'm not.