-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
- 5,107
- 1,786
People asking questions instead of looking at profiles, where it's guided back to Luffy.
High 7-A+ comes from the statement via Doflamingo that Luffy is 3x (or more cuz several) stronger than before (Gear 2nd scaling makes him around >2.5GT, while Gear 3rd scaling [which is ultimately at an impasse with some disagreeing and some agreeing] would make him touch Island level). Also, Fujitora has a 1.9GT feat, which is where the flat High 7-A scaling comes from.
Seriously, is it hard to read instead of asking the same question over and over again? Literally EVERY profile guides back to the Three Sweet Commanders (or Doffy), and then goes to Luffy, who has the statement stamped right there.
Also, I strongly believe a lot of you miss the point of this chapter. Shanks was only an Emperor for 6 years, but that doesn't say anything specifically about his personal power level. It emphasizes the fact that he has a 4 Billion bounty in such a short time frame (arguably only 2 decades after Roger died) and he has a bounty comparable to BM and Kaido, who have been at this pirate game since (unknown for Kaido) they were children. Linlin had a bounty when she was 6 years old. We don't even know if Shanks accumulated anything until after Roger died. He was a mere apprentice.
@David - BM is not a giant. She had 2 human parents. She's an abnormality. She's considered human despite her size.
High 7-A+ comes from the statement via Doflamingo that Luffy is 3x (or more cuz several) stronger than before (Gear 2nd scaling makes him around >2.5GT, while Gear 3rd scaling [which is ultimately at an impasse with some disagreeing and some agreeing] would make him touch Island level). Also, Fujitora has a 1.9GT feat, which is where the flat High 7-A scaling comes from.
Seriously, is it hard to read instead of asking the same question over and over again? Literally EVERY profile guides back to the Three Sweet Commanders (or Doffy), and then goes to Luffy, who has the statement stamped right there.
Also, I strongly believe a lot of you miss the point of this chapter. Shanks was only an Emperor for 6 years, but that doesn't say anything specifically about his personal power level. It emphasizes the fact that he has a 4 Billion bounty in such a short time frame (arguably only 2 decades after Roger died) and he has a bounty comparable to BM and Kaido, who have been at this pirate game since (unknown for Kaido) they were children. Linlin had a bounty when she was 6 years old. We don't even know if Shanks accumulated anything until after Roger died. He was a mere apprentice.
@David - BM is not a giant. She had 2 human parents. She's an abnormality. She's considered human despite her size.
- 14,409
- 1,692
Thanks cin really makes the most sense
- 179
- 66
What?? You think Zoro will fight blackbeard, who is Luffys rival for Pirate king? That's like Luffy fighting Mihawk. Not to mention Zoro wont ever be strong enough to beat Blackbeard. Theres a 0% chance of that happening. We know nothing about Imu so why are you assuming he is a swordsman? Not gonna even bother addressing the Blackbeard is carrying Rogers will and Luffy is carrying Rocks will.LordWhis said:
All of your comments are crazy, you have to be trolling lmao.
- 14,409
- 1,692
Ohhh the the card came out?
- 4,966
- 3,771
Yeah, the Vivre Card came out a long while ago. You can check most of the details here; https://thelibraryofohara.com/vivre-card-databook/AstralKing7 said:
- 14,409
- 1,692
Thanks thanks
- 4,381
- 1,314
Because he took Absalom's fruit? How does that make it more likely than Zoro always fighting the swordsman?LordWhis said:
- 4,381
- 1,314
You guys are sleeping on my joke and I don't like that.Tetsucabrah said:
It was him all along... Rocks...tar
- 5,107
- 1,786
Benn Beckmann's statement doesn't really imply strength, but reputation (could go either way, actually). The same could be argued for Rayleigh who held a high reputation (especially despite being retired for decades), yet he'd be inferior to Roger in combat. He was clearly losing ground vs Kizaru, so would we suggest Kizaru to be superior to Roger? Naw.
And besides, we have not even seen Benn fight in any way. Shanks at least has feats stopping attacks from Akainu and WB, but Benn has nothing. IDK why he even has a profile. It's completely pointless (same w/ Dragon and Roger).
Also, regarding WB vs Kizaru: we see them "fighting" for literally one page. WB stops Kizaru from attacking Luffy, WB looks up to see Luffy's progress at saving Ace, Kizaru takes advantage of this and shoots a beam at his chest before shooting the key Luffy way trying to use. How are any of you going to try and legitimately argue that as a reason for Kizaru being 6-B?
And besides, we have not even seen Benn fight in any way. Shanks at least has feats stopping attacks from Akainu and WB, but Benn has nothing. IDK why he even has a profile. It's completely pointless (same w/ Dragon and Roger).
Also, regarding WB vs Kizaru: we see them "fighting" for literally one page. WB stops Kizaru from attacking Luffy, WB looks up to see Luffy's progress at saving Ace, Kizaru takes advantage of this and shoots a beam at his chest before shooting the key Luffy way trying to use. How are any of you going to try and legitimately argue that as a reason for Kizaru being 6-B?
- Also, it's almost as if we're straight up going to ignore the strong implication that WB was very very obviously distracted and used himself to keep Kizaru from stopping someone who basically ended up (temporarily) saving Ace.
- 4,112
- 195
As you yourself said, it could go either way, therefore he deserves a 'possibly'. The whole reason we have 'possibly' in our tierlist is for situations like these. Though if you remove his profile then I guess that's also fine.CinCameron20 said:
I do think Rayleigh has gotten weaker due to age, rust and alcoholism. In his prime he shouldn't be much weaker than EOS Zoro, who we know will at least be 6B since he'll be above Mihawk and Shanks.
Kizaru would have to be at least low 6B+ to affect someone with 6B durability. If his AP was below 3.5 gigatons he wouldn't affect WB at all. Same with all of the other admirals honestly. Also, Aokiji would have probably killed Whitebeard with his partisan if Jozu hadn't saved him. Akainu was pretty evenly matched with WB despite holding back to not damage the marine residences. People overestimate what Whitebeard did at Marineford, he died, most of his crew was slaughtered. Akainu was sonewhat injured but was still healthy enough to no-diff Marco and Vista at the same time. Aokiji, Kizaru, Garp and Sengoku were pretty much uninjured. The warlords were mostly uninjured. Most of the marine forces were intact. It was a complete and total victory for the marines, I'd argue they were never under threat at all. No single Yonko has a chance against the Marines. I think they could have taken down the Red Hair pirates too if they had wanted to. Send 2 uninjured top tiers against Shanks. Send another 2 uninjured top tiers against Beckmann. Send the VAs, the warlords, pacifistas, the other strong fighters and fodder against the rest of the red hair pirates. Send Akainu against the remains of the WB pirates. Job done. 2 Yonkos wiped off the earth in a single day.
I think the recent chapters have proved that WB was never all that- definitely a tier below the Rogers, Garps, Rocks, Sengokus and Imu-Samas of the world. I'd call those guys god tiers and I'd put WB on top-tier with the Current Yonkos and admirals. Buggy overrated him.
- 3,122
- 1,074
I think not. This is too big for him, not even Shanks who is far more important than Zoro for the world have a bounty on that level. This number is more likely for people like Luffy but nothing prevents EOS Zoro's bounty from rising above 1 or 2 billion as a commander of the Pirate King.
- 4,381
- 1,314
Zoro was one of the Supernovas and has consistently been pretty close to Luffy in strength.
While I don't think he'll go higher than the Yonko bounties, I don't think he'll only cap at 2 billion either.
While I don't think he'll go higher than the Yonko bounties, I don't think he'll only cap at 2 billion either.
- 21,390
- 2,978
lol
- 3,669
- 1,080
Wait, she isn't? Ugh, she did live among the giants for a time didn't she? That's probably why i misremember her as part giant, I do vaguely remember her being abandoned by her parents because she was far too difficult to take care of (or something along those lines)CinCameron20 said:
Jeez I swear I just re-read OP like 2 months ago to try and refresh myself, but it's so long and there's so much info to unpack I constantly get confused.
- 14,575
- 5,877
Speculating power levels using hypothetical EoS characters is plain wrong.
- 4
- 9
I mean yes it's not concrete but it along with Whitebeard being suprissed Shanks lost his arm does imply he though Shanks and by proxy Mihawk were pretty strong.Damage3245 said:
The Vivre card databook also says Mihawk "sits at the top as the strongest of all swordsmen", trained relentlessly until he had no more worthy challengers and it's implied he's waiting for an opponent stronger than Shanks.
Also the character bios for Marineford says that he is "The world's most powerful swordsman."
Shanks and Rayleigh are both swordsmen so Mihawk being considered the most powerful and strongest would imply Mihawk is stronger than them.
- 14,409
- 1,692
Man I hope Mihawk goes to Wano ƒÿ¡ƒÿ¡ƒÿ¡ like bruh him not being in the country of samurai just feels weird
Also would be cool at the end of the arc he appears out of nowhere while the straw hats are recovering to beat them down just so he can have his final fight with Zoro who will most likely master the ability of creating permanent black blades
Also would be cool at the end of the arc he appears out of nowhere while the straw hats are recovering to beat them down just so he can have his final fight with Zoro who will most likely master the ability of creating permanent black blades
- 5,107
- 1,786
@Whis - That's not a correct way to look at things at all. Also, quit trying to speculate EoS power levels when that's totally irrelevant rn.
Bruh, we already discussed in a previous thread that Aokiji, Akainu, and Kizaru all have dura negation due to how their DF powers function. Aokiji needs no explanation. Akainu uses magma, and we've seen him straight up vaporize flesh and bone just by touching them. Kizaru's beams burn straight through targets with no exception (disregarding Film Z, but it came into contact w/ sea stone).
Saying Aokiji was going to kill WB right there is the height of dreaming. Hurt WB, perhaps, but his previous attacks didn't do anything to WB. Initial partisans = destroyed by a casual quake. Ice Ball--only slowed WB down for like 2 seconds before he was out and stabbed at Aokiji. The second Partisan attack looked like it was going to connect, but to suggest it was going to kill WB is laughable and desperately grasping for reasons to make the Admirals fully scale to him.
Also, someone appears to have removed Dura negation from Kizaru and Akainu's AP descriptions (but not from powers/abilities) with no explanation, so I'm putting them back because this was discussed ages ago.
Anyways, yes, i believe a single Yonko crew would be destroyed by the full force of the marines, but they'd need to send more than 2 or all 3 Admirals to guarantee victory. The commanders are no push-overs, and we've seen that they can hold their own against Admirals for a short period (Marco against each of them, Jozu against Aokiji), so while the commanders fend off a single or 2 Admirals, the Yonko itself could just wipe out an Admiral after a few minutes of fighting. The point is that the marines outnumber a Yonko crew. Had WB went with the intention to fight and destroy the marines, he'd obviously lose because he's the only person there who could even defeat the marines. Not to mention Squardo stabbed him before he even had a chance to go and fight.
Also, you missed something pointed out in the chapter. Kaido and Big Mom are stated to be far stronger than they were 38 years ago. You're trying to compare characters from 4 decades ago to now when obviously nothing would have remained the same. We don't even know the details of the fight. I doubt it was 2v4. It was likely the entire Roger crew + Garp's marines vs the entire Rocks crew.
Stop trying to powerscale characters from events 40 years ago. It's not gonna work.
Also, if WB wasn't some top dog that could even take out Garp, why would Sengoku mention WB as being the strongest man in the world with Garp like 30 feet away?
Bruh, we already discussed in a previous thread that Aokiji, Akainu, and Kizaru all have dura negation due to how their DF powers function. Aokiji needs no explanation. Akainu uses magma, and we've seen him straight up vaporize flesh and bone just by touching them. Kizaru's beams burn straight through targets with no exception (disregarding Film Z, but it came into contact w/ sea stone).
Saying Aokiji was going to kill WB right there is the height of dreaming. Hurt WB, perhaps, but his previous attacks didn't do anything to WB. Initial partisans = destroyed by a casual quake. Ice Ball--only slowed WB down for like 2 seconds before he was out and stabbed at Aokiji. The second Partisan attack looked like it was going to connect, but to suggest it was going to kill WB is laughable and desperately grasping for reasons to make the Admirals fully scale to him.
Also, someone appears to have removed Dura negation from Kizaru and Akainu's AP descriptions (but not from powers/abilities) with no explanation, so I'm putting them back because this was discussed ages ago.
Anyways, yes, i believe a single Yonko crew would be destroyed by the full force of the marines, but they'd need to send more than 2 or all 3 Admirals to guarantee victory. The commanders are no push-overs, and we've seen that they can hold their own against Admirals for a short period (Marco against each of them, Jozu against Aokiji), so while the commanders fend off a single or 2 Admirals, the Yonko itself could just wipe out an Admiral after a few minutes of fighting. The point is that the marines outnumber a Yonko crew. Had WB went with the intention to fight and destroy the marines, he'd obviously lose because he's the only person there who could even defeat the marines. Not to mention Squardo stabbed him before he even had a chance to go and fight.
Also, you missed something pointed out in the chapter. Kaido and Big Mom are stated to be far stronger than they were 38 years ago. You're trying to compare characters from 4 decades ago to now when obviously nothing would have remained the same. We don't even know the details of the fight. I doubt it was 2v4. It was likely the entire Roger crew + Garp's marines vs the entire Rocks crew.
Stop trying to powerscale characters from events 40 years ago. It's not gonna work.
Also, if WB wasn't some top dog that could even take out Garp, why would Sengoku mention WB as being the strongest man in the world with Garp like 30 feet away?
- 5,107
- 1,786
Also, before anyone points out Jinbe blocking Akainu's punch disproving dura negation, here's one simple word for you:
Busoshoku.
Busoshoku.
- 801
- 252
I mean yes it's not concrete but it along with Whitebeard being suprissed Shanks lost his arm does imply he though Shanks and by proxy Mihawk were pretty strong.
The Vivre card databook also says Mihawk "sits at the top as the strongest of all swordsmen", trained relentlessly until he had no more worthy challengers and it's implied he's waiting for an opponent stronger than Shanks.
Also the character bios for Marineford says that he is "The world's most powerful swordsman."
Shanks and Rayleigh are both swordsmen so Mihawk being considered the most powerful and strongest would imply Mihawk is stronger than them.
The databook also said that Shanks was Yonko 16 years ago and the last chapter disagree with that. So the databook is not consistent with the manga.
The Vivre card databook also says Mihawk "sits at the top as the strongest of all swordsmen", trained relentlessly until he had no more worthy challengers and it's implied he's waiting for an opponent stronger than Shanks.
Also the character bios for Marineford says that he is "The world's most powerful swordsman."
Shanks and Rayleigh are both swordsmen so Mihawk being considered the most powerful and strongest would imply Mihawk is stronger than them.
The databook also said that Shanks was Yonko 16 years ago and the last chapter disagree with that. So the databook is not consistent with the manga.
- 31
- 5
The databook also said that Shanks was Yonko 16 years ago and the last chapter disagree with that.Lgamer099 99 said:
So the databook is not consistent with the manga.
actually no the viver card stated that shanks went on to become a famous pirate after rogers death some people then took it as that he was a yonko when he met luffy
- 4,112
- 195
@CinCameron20:
Possibly
Should be used to list a hypothetical statistic for a character, but inconclusive due to lack of feats or viable power-scaling. Probability of said hypothetical statistic should also be indeterminate.
At most
Should be used to denote the higher cap of a character, if the exact value is indeterminate.
Both of these seem just fine for Beckmann.
Come one ! Please ! Don't let our disagreements get in the way of a perfectly legitimate upgrade. Make him Atmost 6-B.
Possibly
Should be used to list a hypothetical statistic for a character, but inconclusive due to lack of feats or viable power-scaling. Probability of said hypothetical statistic should also be indeterminate.
At most
Should be used to denote the higher cap of a character, if the exact value is indeterminate.
Both of these seem just fine for Beckmann.
Come one ! Please ! Don't let our disagreements get in the way of a perfectly legitimate upgrade. Make him Atmost 6-B.
- 31,401
- 27,693
@LordWhis; "At most 6-B" is way too generous for a character that has had virtually zero feats.
- 5,107
- 1,786
??? This is not happening. Beckmann has 0 feats, 0 combative showings, 0 characters to powerscale to. Nothing about this is "legit". Being compared to Shanks at most regards to his notoriety as a pirate, not his power level until proven otherwise.
