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One Piece Discussion Thread Twelve Amazon Lily

People asking questions instead of looking at profiles, where it's guided back to Luffy.

High 7-A+ comes from the statement via Doflamingo that Luffy is 3x (or more cuz several) stronger than before (Gear 2nd scaling makes him around >2.5GT, while Gear 3rd scaling [which is ultimately at an impasse with some disagreeing and some agreeing] would make him touch Island level). Also, Fujitora has a 1.9GT feat, which is where the flat High 7-A scaling comes from.

Seriously, is it hard to read instead of asking the same question over and over again? Literally EVERY profile guides back to the Three Sweet Commanders (or Doffy), and then goes to Luffy, who has the statement stamped right there.

Also, I strongly believe a lot of you miss the point of this chapter. Shanks was only an Emperor for 6 years, but that doesn't say anything specifically about his personal power level. It emphasizes the fact that he has a 4 Billion bounty in such a short time frame (arguably only 2 decades after Roger died) and he has a bounty comparable to BM and Kaido, who have been at this pirate game since (unknown for Kaido) they were children. Linlin had a bounty when she was 6 years old. We don't even know if Shanks accumulated anything until after Roger died. He was a mere apprentice.

@David - BM is not a giant. She had 2 human parents. She's an abnormality. She's considered human despite her size.
 
LordWhis said:
Does anyone see Luffy vs Akainu and Zoro vs Blackbeard happening ? He'll be the perfect person to beat Blackbeard, due to not having a devil fruit.

I could also see Imu-sama be Zoro's final enemy, due to being a swordsman.

Does anyone think Luffy is carrying on Rocks' will and Teach is carrying on Roger's will. Luffy is against the WG while BB will probably ally with them.

Also we now know that Pirate King was an idea that existed before Roger became it.

Anyone think there's a connection between Ryuuma and Rocks ?
What?? You think Zoro will fight blackbeard, who is Luffys rival for Pirate king? That's like Luffy fighting Mihawk. Not to mention Zoro wont ever be strong enough to beat Blackbeard. Theres a 0% chance of that happening. We know nothing about Imu so why are you assuming he is a swordsman? Not gonna even bother addressing the Blackbeard is carrying Rogers will and Luffy is carrying Rocks will.

All of your comments are crazy, you have to be trolling lmao.
 
I have always thought BM doesn't really become weaker over time because her powers are based entirely around her DF.

@cin: what do you think of Benn Beckmann getting a possibly 6B rating based on his latest vivre card?
 
Invisible man vs invisible man ?


Also, Zoro is more than a swordsman- he is the future dark king of the pirates !
 
Also, Whitebeard had one of the 12 supreme grade swords and no scars on his back (Swordsman's greatest shame) Whitebeard swordsman confirmed ?
 
LOL. Rocks still alive confirmed.

Jokes aside, I would not be surprised if rockstar turns out to be Rocks' son
 
Does anyone think Weevil got a head transplant based on stitchinga round his neck, maybe he was made to look like WB ?
 
LordWhis said:
Also, Whitebeard had one of the 12 supreme grade swords and no scars on his back (Swordsman's greatest shame) Whitebeard swordsman confirmed ?
Even if he is a "swordsman" Zoro will not surpass him or even be equal to him, same with Roger. I hope this helps.
 
Benn Beckmann's statement doesn't really imply strength, but reputation (could go either way, actually). The same could be argued for Rayleigh who held a high reputation (especially despite being retired for decades), yet he'd be inferior to Roger in combat. He was clearly losing ground vs Kizaru, so would we suggest Kizaru to be superior to Roger? Naw.

And besides, we have not even seen Benn fight in any way. Shanks at least has feats stopping attacks from Akainu and WB, but Benn has nothing. IDK why he even has a profile. It's completely pointless (same w/ Dragon and Roger).

Also, regarding WB vs Kizaru: we see them "fighting" for literally one page. WB stops Kizaru from attacking Luffy, WB looks up to see Luffy's progress at saving Ace, Kizaru takes advantage of this and shoots a beam at his chest before shooting the key Luffy way trying to use. How are any of you going to try and legitimately argue that as a reason for Kizaru being 6-B?

  • Also, it's almost as if we're straight up going to ignore the strong implication that WB was very very obviously distracted and used himself to keep Kizaru from stopping someone who basically ended up (temporarily) saving Ace.
 
Oh and Zoro isn't a drunk, he's never been drunk in the entire series. He doesn't even drink that much. There literally isn't a single parallel between Zoro/Kaido and Luffy/Big Mom. The only similarity is the gluttony.
 
CinCameron20 said:
Benn Beckmann's statement doesn't really imply strength, but reputation (could go either way, actually). The same could be argued for Rayleigh who held a high reputation (especially despite being retired for decades), yet he'd be inferior to Roger in combat. He was clearly losing ground vs Kizaru, so would we suggest Kizaru to be superior to Roger? Naw.

And besides, we have not even seen Benn fight in any way. Shanks at least has feats stopping attacks from Akainu and WB, but Benn has nothing. IDK why he even has a profile. It's completely pointless (same w/ Dragon and Roger).

Also, regarding WB vs Kizaru: we see them "fighting" for literally one page. WB stops Kizaru from attacking Luffy, WB looks up to see Luffy's progress at saving Ace, Kizaru takes advantage of this and shoots a beam at his chest before shooting the key Luffy way trying to use. How are any of you going to try and legitimately argue that as a reason for Kizaru being 6-B?
As you yourself said, it could go either way, therefore he deserves a 'possibly'. The whole reason we have 'possibly' in our tierlist is for situations like these. Though if you remove his profile then I guess that's also fine.

I do think Rayleigh has gotten weaker due to age, rust and alcoholism. In his prime he shouldn't be much weaker than EOS Zoro, who we know will at least be 6B since he'll be above Mihawk and Shanks.

Kizaru would have to be at least low 6B+ to affect someone with 6B durability. If his AP was below 3.5 gigatons he wouldn't affect WB at all. Same with all of the other admirals honestly. Also, Aokiji would have probably killed Whitebeard with his partisan if Jozu hadn't saved him. Akainu was pretty evenly matched with WB despite holding back to not damage the marine residences. People overestimate what Whitebeard did at Marineford, he died, most of his crew was slaughtered. Akainu was sonewhat injured but was still healthy enough to no-diff Marco and Vista at the same time. Aokiji, Kizaru, Garp and Sengoku were pretty much uninjured. The warlords were mostly uninjured. Most of the marine forces were intact. It was a complete and total victory for the marines, I'd argue they were never under threat at all. No single Yonko has a chance against the Marines. I think they could have taken down the Red Hair pirates too if they had wanted to. Send 2 uninjured top tiers against Shanks. Send another 2 uninjured top tiers against Beckmann. Send the VAs, the warlords, pacifistas, the other strong fighters and fodder against the rest of the red hair pirates. Send Akainu against the remains of the WB pirates. Job done. 2 Yonkos wiped off the earth in a single day.

I think the recent chapters have proved that WB was never all that- definitely a tier below the Rogers, Garps, Rocks, Sengokus and Imu-Samas of the world. I'd call those guys god tiers and I'd put WB on top-tier with the Current Yonkos and admirals. Buggy overrated him.
 
VioIeLFC said:
Oh and Zoro isn't a drunk, he's never been drunk in the entire series. He doesn't even drink that much. There literally isn't a single parallel between Zoro/Kaido and Luffy/Big Mom. The only similarity is the gluttony.
Scars and hats ?


Does anyone think Zoro's EOS bounty will be like 5.1 Billion ?
 
I think not. This is too big for him, not even Shanks who is far more important than Zoro for the world have a bounty on that level. This number is more likely for people like Luffy but nothing prevents EOS Zoro's bounty from rising above 1 or 2 billion as a commander of the Pirate King.
 
Zoro was one of the Supernovas and has consistently been pretty close to Luffy in strength.

While I don't think he'll go higher than the Yonko bounties, I don't think he'll only cap at 2 billion either.
 
CinCameron20 said:
@David - BM is not a giant. She had 2 human parents. She's an abnormality. She's considered human despite her size.
Wait, she isn't? Ugh, she did live among the giants for a time didn't she? That's probably why i misremember her as part giant, I do vaguely remember her being abandoned by her parents because she was far too difficult to take care of (or something along those lines)

Jeez I swear I just re-read OP like 2 months ago to try and refresh myself, but it's so long and there's so much info to unpack I constantly get confused.
 
Damage3245 said:
Hyping up his duel as legendary doesn't really mean anything concrete.
I mean yes it's not concrete but it along with Whitebeard being suprissed Shanks lost his arm does imply he though Shanks and by proxy Mihawk were pretty strong.

The Vivre card databook also says Mihawk "sits at the top as the strongest of all swordsmen", trained relentlessly until he had no more worthy challengers and it's implied he's waiting for an opponent stronger than Shanks.

Also the character bios for Marineford says that he is "The world's most powerful swordsman."

Shanks and Rayleigh are both swordsmen so Mihawk being considered the most powerful and strongest would imply Mihawk is stronger than them.
 
Man I hope Mihawk goes to Wano ƒÿ¡ƒÿ¡ƒÿ¡ like bruh him not being in the country of samurai just feels weird

Also would be cool at the end of the arc he appears out of nowhere while the straw hats are recovering to beat them down just so he can have his final fight with Zoro who will most likely master the ability of creating permanent black blades
 
@Whis - That's not a correct way to look at things at all. Also, quit trying to speculate EoS power levels when that's totally irrelevant rn.

Bruh, we already discussed in a previous thread that Aokiji, Akainu, and Kizaru all have dura negation due to how their DF powers function. Aokiji needs no explanation. Akainu uses magma, and we've seen him straight up vaporize flesh and bone just by touching them. Kizaru's beams burn straight through targets with no exception (disregarding Film Z, but it came into contact w/ sea stone).

Saying Aokiji was going to kill WB right there is the height of dreaming. Hurt WB, perhaps, but his previous attacks didn't do anything to WB. Initial partisans = destroyed by a casual quake. Ice Ball--only slowed WB down for like 2 seconds before he was out and stabbed at Aokiji. The second Partisan attack looked like it was going to connect, but to suggest it was going to kill WB is laughable and desperately grasping for reasons to make the Admirals fully scale to him.

Also, someone appears to have removed Dura negation from Kizaru and Akainu's AP descriptions (but not from powers/abilities) with no explanation, so I'm putting them back because this was discussed ages ago.

Anyways, yes, i believe a single Yonko crew would be destroyed by the full force of the marines, but they'd need to send more than 2 or all 3 Admirals to guarantee victory. The commanders are no push-overs, and we've seen that they can hold their own against Admirals for a short period (Marco against each of them, Jozu against Aokiji), so while the commanders fend off a single or 2 Admirals, the Yonko itself could just wipe out an Admiral after a few minutes of fighting. The point is that the marines outnumber a Yonko crew. Had WB went with the intention to fight and destroy the marines, he'd obviously lose because he's the only person there who could even defeat the marines. Not to mention Squardo stabbed him before he even had a chance to go and fight.

Also, you missed something pointed out in the chapter. Kaido and Big Mom are stated to be far stronger than they were 38 years ago. You're trying to compare characters from 4 decades ago to now when obviously nothing would have remained the same. We don't even know the details of the fight. I doubt it was 2v4. It was likely the entire Roger crew + Garp's marines vs the entire Rocks crew.

Stop trying to powerscale characters from events 40 years ago. It's not gonna work.

Also, if WB wasn't some top dog that could even take out Garp, why would Sengoku mention WB as being the strongest man in the world with Garp like 30 feet away?
 
I mean yes it's not concrete but it along with Whitebeard being suprissed Shanks lost his arm does imply he though Shanks and by proxy Mihawk were pretty strong.

The Vivre card databook also says Mihawk "sits at the top as the strongest of all swordsmen", trained relentlessly until he had no more worthy challengers and it's implied he's waiting for an opponent stronger than Shanks.

Also the character bios for Marineford says that he is "The world's most powerful swordsman."

Shanks and Rayleigh are both swordsmen so Mihawk being considered the most powerful and strongest would imply Mihawk is stronger than them.

The databook also said that Shanks was Yonko 16 years ago and the last chapter disagree with that. So the databook is not consistent with the manga.
 
CinCameron20 said:
Also, someone appears to have removed Dura negation from Kizaru and Akainu's AP descriptions (but not from powers/abilities) with no explanation, so I'm putting them back because this was discussed ages ago.
No one removed it, they just didn't have it in the AP section until you edit.
 
Lgamer099 99 said:
I mean yes it's not concrete but it along with Whitebeard being suprissed Shanks lost his arm does imply he though Shanks and by proxy Mihawk were pretty strong.
The Vivre card databook also says Mihawk "sits at the top as the strongest of all swordsmen", trained relentlessly until he had no more worthy challengers and it's implied he's waiting for an opponent stronger than Shanks.

Also the character bios for Marineford says that he is "The world's most powerful swordsman."

Shanks and Rayleigh are both swordsmen so Mihawk being considered the most powerful and strongest would imply Mihawk is stronger than them.
The databook also said that Shanks was Yonko 16 years ago and the last chapter disagree with that.
So the databook is not consistent with the manga.

actually no the viver card stated that shanks went on to become a famous pirate after rogers death some people then took it as that he was a yonko when he met luffy
 
@CinCameron20:

Possibly

Should be used to list a hypothetical statistic for a character, but inconclusive due to lack of feats or viable power-scaling. Probability of said hypothetical statistic should also be indeterminate.

At most

Should be used to denote the higher cap of a character, if the exact value is indeterminate.

Both of these seem just fine for Beckmann.

Come one ! Please ! Don't let our disagreements get in the way of a perfectly legitimate upgrade. Make him Atmost 6-B.
 
@LordWhis; "At most 6-B" is way too generous for a character that has had virtually zero feats.
 
??? This is not happening. Beckmann has 0 feats, 0 combative showings, 0 characters to powerscale to. Nothing about this is "legit". Being compared to Shanks at most regards to his notoriety as a pirate, not his power level until proven otherwise.
 
Damage3245 said:
@LordWhis; "At most 6-B" is way too generous for a character that has had virtually zero feats.
Aren't at most ratings designed for characters with virtually zero feats.
 
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