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Because since Enies Lobby, Luffy has been clearly above Zoro. Lucci'd have killed the Strawhats if Luffy were to let him runaway from the fight.
Doflamingo is far above to the likes of Pica and Zoro hasn't shown a single feat suggesting he's at Yonko Commander level yet.
They are comparable? Somewhat, but Luffy's clearly above Zoro. Zoro had more stamina pre-timeskip, but Luffy's feats make that claim dubious.
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Sorry about that, didn't know. My mistake.
We know Lucci is less than twice as strong as Kaku from the Doriko readings. Zoro was comparable to Kaku in Base form and Asura is a 3x multiplier therefore he should be slightly above Lucci just like Luffy.
The Kuma incident proved he had better durability than Luffy. Chopper even calls him the toughest straw hat.
You make it seem like Zoro vs Pica was anything close to an even fight.
Also Zoro could tame Enma putting him above characters like Shutenmaru and Inuarashi who are Yonko commander tier.
Lastly, in 955, they clearly show Luffy and Zoro training one after the other in fairly similar conditions implying equality. Not unlike how Goku and Vegeta are often portrayed in Dragonball.
They were both trained by top tiers during the timeskip. They both are spiritual successors of Mihawk and Shanks who are equals.
The whole Luffy, Zoro and Coby dialogue in Romance Dawn pretty much confirmed that they were going to become the Big 3 of the new generation.
Zoro and Luffy fought to a draw.
Zoro is going to become the dark king of the pirates.
We know Lucci is less than twice as strong as Kaku from the Doriko readings. Zoro was comparable to Kaku in Base form and Asura is a 3x multiplier therefore he should be slightly above Lucci just like Luffy.
The Kuma incident proved he had better durability than Luffy. Chopper even calls him the toughest straw hat.
You make it seem like Zoro vs Pica was anything close to an even fight.
Also Zoro could tame Enma putting him above characters like Shutenmaru and Inuarashi who are Yonko commander tier.
Lastly, in 955, they clearly show Luffy and Zoro training one after the other in fairly similar conditions implying equality. Not unlike how Goku and Vegeta are often portrayed in Dragonball.
They were both trained by top tiers during the timeskip. They both are spiritual successors of Mihawk and Shanks who are equals.
The whole Luffy, Zoro and Coby dialogue in Romance Dawn pretty much confirmed that they were going to become the Big 3 of the new generation.
Zoro and Luffy fought to a draw.
Zoro is going to become the dark king of the pirates.
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No prob. It was funny.
Above BASE Lucci. Zoan Lucci is a whole different story.
Stamina-wise, yes. Zoro was an absolute monster. I'm not sure how good would he fair against the punishment Luffy took recently, but there's no evidence of such claims.
Stop arguing that taming Enma is an AP feat. We have discussed that before and there's no reason to believe that outside of headcanon.
What? So if they both train at the same time they are equals? What'd happen if we use the same logic Pre-TS, where Luffy never trained and Zoro did everyday? According to your logic, all the Strawhats are equals to each other because of the timeskip.
Being a spiritual successor isn't a solid argument to prove that they will be X strong. It's not even a good one. Don't get me wrong, they will be as strong as the current God Tiers, but not for some spiritual BS but because that's how nekketsu's power scaling works.
Zoro and Luffy fought to a draw in the first 140 chapters of the whole manga. News flash, we're almost at chapter 1000 (holy shit we are).
Zoro is close in power to Luffy by comparison. The rest of the SH are fodder next to him.
Titles aren't ground for scaling. Buggy is a Shichibukai, and Rayleigh's epither is just that, an epithet.
Above BASE Lucci. Zoan Lucci is a whole different story.
Stamina-wise, yes. Zoro was an absolute monster. I'm not sure how good would he fair against the punishment Luffy took recently, but there's no evidence of such claims.
Stop arguing that taming Enma is an AP feat. We have discussed that before and there's no reason to believe that outside of headcanon.
What? So if they both train at the same time they are equals? What'd happen if we use the same logic Pre-TS, where Luffy never trained and Zoro did everyday? According to your logic, all the Strawhats are equals to each other because of the timeskip.
Being a spiritual successor isn't a solid argument to prove that they will be X strong. It's not even a good one. Don't get me wrong, they will be as strong as the current God Tiers, but not for some spiritual BS but because that's how nekketsu's power scaling works.
Zoro and Luffy fought to a draw in the first 140 chapters of the whole manga. News flash, we're almost at chapter 1000 (holy shit we are).
Zoro is close in power to Luffy by comparison. The rest of the SH are fodder next to him.
Titles aren't ground for scaling. Buggy is a Shichibukai, and Rayleigh's epither is just that, an epithet.
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I've never seen such Zoro fanboy wank that hype him up to Yonko Commander level, he hasn't shown anything remotely close even to the Luffy who defeated Doflamingo, and all he's fought aince the timeskip have been fodder characters, be frank, Zoro soloing Kaido, while Luffy gets no battle with him is ridiculous, I want Zoro vs King, Sanji vs Queen, and Luffy vs Kaido, but I'm pretty sure Oda's not that predictable, the Supernovas squading up agaisnt Kaido is probably gonna happen, with it ending with a New Form Luffy soloing Kaido in an intense fight
But Zoro being equal to Luffy is dumb
But Zoro being equal to Luffy is dumb
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We have to remember that Zoro hasn't gone all out throughout the entirety of the timeskip, so we don't even know how strong he truly is. For all we know, he might be Yonko level (not saying he is because that would be ridiculous) or possibly as strong as Gear 4th Luffy, we just don't know since in every fight he's been in, he has always been casual or barely even trying. I'm not trying to wank him, just saying that we shouldn't act as if we know how strong he truly is.
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Now that's cute, and I love they're outfits lol.
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I can't recognize Sanji's, Nami's and Kin'emon's cosplays.
Kind of funny to see Luffy dressed as Toph.
Kind of funny to see Luffy dressed as Toph.
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I think Sanji is suppossed to be L, but I'm most likely wrong, and Nami is that one girl from Bob's Burgers.
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- Thread starter
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Nami is Louise from Bob's Burgers and Sanji apparently is a zombie bf from something called Warm bodies https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warm_Bodies_(film)
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Thanks. Now Kin'emon is the only unknown factor.
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I have a question, is being able to fight or straight up beat someone with precog/analytical count as resisting the precog or analytical prediction? I personally don't believe so, but just making sure.
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Not necessarily, they can still be seen in the future. I can see into the future or predict someone's actions but it doesn't stop me from getting beat up.
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I assuming you asking in a situation similar to like with Luffy vs Enel. Then no. Luffy only found a way to outmaneuver around Enel's precognition, he didn't actually lessen the effect of Enel's precognition. Only one time he did, but that was through Instinctive Reaction.
A true resistance to Precognition would be this guy or hand, who could keeps itself from appearing in any of the visions an individual with such abilities has, even if it is at said event in the future.
A true resistance to Precognition would be this guy or hand, who could keeps itself from appearing in any of the visions an individual with such abilities has, even if it is at said event in the future.
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That's exactly what I was thinking.Rin The Dragon Empress said:
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Hmm, that doesn't seem right.
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Outperforming someone w/ pre-cog does not automatically mean that they resist it. It can result in higher intellect, or experience. Someone can see the future, but still be outsmarted if they don't know what the opponent is thinking, or is incredibly arrogant. For example:
Suspects eliminated imo:
Law - Literally why would he betray Luffy at this stage? He's come too far in this game against Kaido to join forces with him, even if he simply wanted to get rid of Doflamingo. He even helped Luffy in many cases where he could have simply stayed out of it during PH, Dressrosa, and Wano. He has no known motives currently outside of wanting to defeat Kaido.
Shinobu - Helped the SHs escape capture/death 3+ times, tried to prevent Law from exposing himself to the Beast Pirates.
Okiku - Helped Luffy escape Udon, and no one on Kaido's side is even aware of the situation of Udon.
Not to mention all listed above didn't even know about Raizo being at Zou.
Minks - Anyone could've informed Jack specifically where Raizo was located, as all of them clearly knew the exact spot where he was tied up.
Now, for Kanjuro:
1) He knew about Raizo's general location being around Zou, but not that he was in the Whale forest.
2) He is one of the few individuals seen given information that was specifically leaked to Orochi (the bathhouse, all the info Robin collected, the number of soldiers on each side, the changed location for the meet-up, Hiyori being alive, etc). But nothing about Udon was leaked, as he was NEVER shown attaining such information. This is why Luffy was never disturbed during his training session before rejoining everyone.
3) He was unharmed and was roaming free in the prison of Dressrosa. Honestly, Doflamingo and his crew are not stupid, and would not be willing to let a Samurai with information roam, let alone not have him shackled with sea-stone and interrogate him. Kanjuro was unharmed, unphased, and didn't seem to care for Momo's safety beyond casually asking about his condition. Let's be honest, Doflamingo would have turned him into shreds if Kanjuro put up ANY resistance on telling him anything.
We have our prime suspect
- x Character has the ability to see the very next 2 actions taken by y Character. y Character suspects x to have some form of analytical or pre-cog power, but is unsure.
- y Character has an ability to stick its limbs onto anything it comes into contact with, but x Character does not know this.
- y Character gives ground to an assault by x, who is being cautious not to get tripped up by what y has in store, the next 2 actions he sees are y collapsing to one knee upon blocking a spin-kick, and then barely managing to catch the leg upon a follow-up kick--suggesting to x that y is going to fall soon, or at least be incredibly disadvantaged. Upon performing the spin-kick, x can see ahead 2 steps forward, and just sees that his leg is still connected to y, but doesn't know why from that information, and by the time he performs his second kick, he's too late to realize that the result from his future-sight was him trapped due to the mentioned ability that y has to act an adhesive, trapping x's leg onto y's arm. At this point, x can not dodge even if he see's the next set of actions coming, and is ultimately screwed.
Suspects eliminated imo:
Law - Literally why would he betray Luffy at this stage? He's come too far in this game against Kaido to join forces with him, even if he simply wanted to get rid of Doflamingo. He even helped Luffy in many cases where he could have simply stayed out of it during PH, Dressrosa, and Wano. He has no known motives currently outside of wanting to defeat Kaido.
Shinobu - Helped the SHs escape capture/death 3+ times, tried to prevent Law from exposing himself to the Beast Pirates.
Okiku - Helped Luffy escape Udon, and no one on Kaido's side is even aware of the situation of Udon.
Not to mention all listed above didn't even know about Raizo being at Zou.
Minks - Anyone could've informed Jack specifically where Raizo was located, as all of them clearly knew the exact spot where he was tied up.
Now, for Kanjuro:
1) He knew about Raizo's general location being around Zou, but not that he was in the Whale forest.
2) He is one of the few individuals seen given information that was specifically leaked to Orochi (the bathhouse, all the info Robin collected, the number of soldiers on each side, the changed location for the meet-up, Hiyori being alive, etc). But nothing about Udon was leaked, as he was NEVER shown attaining such information. This is why Luffy was never disturbed during his training session before rejoining everyone.
3) He was unharmed and was roaming free in the prison of Dressrosa. Honestly, Doflamingo and his crew are not stupid, and would not be willing to let a Samurai with information roam, let alone not have him shackled with sea-stone and interrogate him. Kanjuro was unharmed, unphased, and didn't seem to care for Momo's safety beyond casually asking about his condition. Let's be honest, Doflamingo would have turned him into shreds if Kanjuro put up ANY resistance on telling him anything.
- He could have simply told Doflamingo exactly that he didn't know Kine'mon and Momo's whereabouts, but that he knew Raizo to be at Zou, hence why Jack was probably informed of this and went to invade Zou within a similar time period of Kanjuro being caught on Dressrosa.
We have our prime suspect
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He has become an obvious suspect. I don't even get why would Carrot be considered the traitor.
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Have some Out of Context One Piece.
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@Js: OMG that's amazing !
@Calaca: Since Kaku and Lucci both measured their doriko readings in Base form and Zoro fought Zoan form Kaku he should scale above Zoan Form Lucci.
@Demongodmitch: Did anyone think Gohan would beat Cell at the beginning of the Cell Saga- at that point in the series Gohan was the deuteragonist/secondary protagonist just like Zoro is. Zoro is going to fight Mihawk soon. Mihawk is equal to if not superior to Shanks who is > Kaido.
@cin: What do you think of Hiyori mistakenly trusting Kyoshiro and telling him everything instead of an actual traitor ?
@Calaca: Since Kaku and Lucci both measured their doriko readings in Base form and Zoro fought Zoan form Kaku he should scale above Zoan Form Lucci.
@Demongodmitch: Did anyone think Gohan would beat Cell at the beginning of the Cell Saga- at that point in the series Gohan was the deuteragonist/secondary protagonist just like Zoro is. Zoro is going to fight Mihawk soon. Mihawk is equal to if not superior to Shanks who is > Kaido.
@cin: What do you think of Hiyori mistakenly trusting Kyoshiro and telling him everything instead of an actual traitor ?
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huh????LordWhis said:
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What is the zoan multiplier again?
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Sure. Let's ignore that Asura was compared to Sanji's DJ and Luffy's G2 against the Pacifista.
G2 competed with Zoan Lucci but was somewhat inferior.
Gear 3rd almost one-shoted Lucci but he was able to remain conscious.
Lucci would definitely beat Zoro. Not easily, but still. Enies Lobby Zoro wouldn't be able to overcome the raw power difference. Not to mention, Lucci is more skilled and doesn't fool around like Kaku did.
G2 competed with Zoan Lucci but was somewhat inferior.
Gear 3rd almost one-shoted Lucci but he was able to remain conscious.
Lucci would definitely beat Zoro. Not easily, but still. Enies Lobby Zoro wouldn't be able to overcome the raw power difference. Not to mention, Lucci is more skilled and doesn't fool around like Kaku did.
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Gear 3rd isn't a combat form. G2 is Luffy's strongest pre-ts combat form. As Lucci said G3 is useless in a fight. Doflamingo demonstrated how slow and impractical it is.The Calaca said:
As you yourself said Zoro shouldn't be an easy fight for Luffy. If Zoro is Yonko commander tier and Luffy is Yonko tier it would be an easy fight as Luffy vs Kaido demonstrated.
As a matter of fact if Luffy is admiral tier and Zoro is Yonko fm tier it would still be an easy fight.
If Luffy is Yonko fm tier sand Zoro is below Yonko commander tier it would be an easy fight.
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Yeah, so impractical that Lucci had his legs wounded, giving Luffy an opening to continue the fight and gain some advantage.
Lol, I said that EL Zoro would be a hard fight to Lucci. Zoro hasn't been proven to be YC tier. Bring the evidence, then we talk.
Lol, I said that EL Zoro would be a hard fight to Lucci. Zoro hasn't been proven to be YC tier. Bring the evidence, then we talk.
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This man should be considered a legend
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Which is the most logical outcome we currently have.
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I don't think anyone thinks Luffy is gonna beat Kaido on his own. I'm thinking he'll get help from Law and Kidd. Big Mom could also backstab him and weaken him for them.
I think Zoro is most likely going to fight Jack.
I think Zoro is most likely going to fight Jack.
