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One Piece Discussion Thread Sixteen Return to Sabaody Archipelago

  • FACEPALM
Of course it is a NLF. WB & Roger>Oden in AP is simply wrong and contradicts what we just saw.
 
Implying Younger Kaido was stronger than Prime Roger and Newgate.

Lol.

Edit:

@Eminiteable Enma doesn't grant hax. It just sucks your Haki to make any slash your 100%.
 
Oden tanks an attack from Prime Roger and clashed with Prime WB. Is pretty obvious that he is Country level (Or you can just be ridiculous and say that old and sick WB was more powerful than in his prime).

The same Oden was going to kill Kaido. Is more than obvious that Roger and WB are superior to Kaido. Any denial to this is wank.
 
What truth? The fact that you're wanking Kaido?

Current Kaido being superior to Prime Roger and Whitebeard is debatable, but Kaido 20 years ago being that strong is even more doubtful.

Enma doesn't grant any hax and the power it uses is the user's power at its fullest. It doesn't amplify it at all.

Kaido got scarred, meaning that he's far from invincible.

The time gap between the events of this battle and Oden meeting Roger and Newgate ain't too big, and they were shown outclassing Oden.

Kaido has lost before, several times actually. Yet you're justifying his scar with a non-existent hax instead of accepting that Kaido wasn't as strong as he currently is. Oden's just > him, but I wouldn't say it's a gigantic difference since he was able to somewhat injure him with his Boro Breath moments before Oden Togen Totsuka'd him.
 
Good job opening with a Fallacy, stating I'm just wanking a character to try and diminish my credibility.

WB & Roger Overall are probably =>Oden at this point. That's not going off anything too solid mind you as its been years since he saw them. As far as AP goes its clear as day WB cannot do what Oden did . Stop dismiising Enma's power by linking it to "hax". It a berserk blade releasing too much power at once. That is textbook Glass canon stat enhancement and it fits with what we saw from zoro, it fits with Oden<=Roger/WB, and it fits with him besting them VS Kaido's durability.
 
Oden at the time of his death, most likely not. But if both were alive, I don't think the result would be too different.
 
Thank you.

We have no evidence of WB fighting Kaido at all. Funny that you mention him instead of someone like Shanks or Big Mom who were known to clash with him (either they fought seriously or fought at all).

The blade doesn't increase power. What it does is suck your power until you're dry. If you have little Haki, you'll be dead soon as the blade will take too much. Stronger Haki users would perform better feats since what the blade does is using the user's power at its fullest even with the smallest slash.

For all we know, the Rocks incident might had Garp fighting Kaido, and he wouldn't scar his skin that easily with his bare hands, so assuming Kaido's durability is far above any God Tier without clear evidence is one of the most hilarious claims you could do.

Oden cutting Kaido is just Oden being > Kaido. In fact, Ame no Hibakiri also scarred him, yet Enma is the only one known to have that serious drawback.
 
Whitebeard, Shanks and Big Mom all have reasons to kill him, and it's not like Kaido would try to stop them from doing so. Pretty simple to put two and two together and come to the conclusion that they just couldn't.
 
That is straight up denial with the second line of text, less you think WB was not a Yonko. Enma increases your power output, unless you are going to deny that as well. We haven't seen what abilities Ame no Hibakiri can do so good job bringing an unknown in.
 
@Eminiteable What reasons again? Whitebeard didn't give a **** about him, Shanks encountered him and we don't know what happened there and Big Mom has even said that Kaido owes her one so she wouldn't kill him before making him pay such favor.

@Fix Quoting Hitetsu (This is Jaiminis version as I couldn't find Viz's translation as it's not available in MangaPlus, so don't quote me if the official release says something different):

"This sword will force its wielder to release excessive amounts of Ryuuou and will cause unnecessarily large strikes!! If you were just some normal swordsman you would have had all your energy sucked out and collapsed immediately... Well done."

Huh? What has that to do with anything? Kaido has even lost and he has been said to be unkillable, not invulnerable. The fact that he has lost fights in the past show that he's far from being invincible. He's just too tough to die and that's it.

And now you're assuming Ame no Hibakiri also has a similar ability with no evidence. Nice.
 
The Calaca said:
@Eminiteable What reasons again? Whitebeard didn't give a **** about him, Shanks encountered him and we don't know what happened there and Big Mom has even said that Kaido owes her one so she wouldn't kill him before making him pay such favor.
Click to expand...
One universal reason would be they're all enemy Yonkos, the other would be Oden the guy Whitbeard refers to as his brother was executed by Kaido, are we forgetting what Whitbeard did for Ace at marineford? As for Big Mom I recall garp (or someother marine) saying both her and Kaido have been at each others necks for a long time, and Oden was Shanks friend and former crewmate, the same guy with the "nobody hurts my friends" quote.
 
Whitebeard might not be aware of Oden's death, just think about it. Otherwise he'd have never leave Kaido alone if that were the case. Remember Wano is an isolated country and when Ace were there he wasn't a Whitebeard Pirate since he was with his Spade Pirates.

Same applies for Shanks.

That doesn't necessarily mean they have been actively trying to kill each other by themselves. In fact, you can see that they can clash for a whole night and nothing happens at all. Instead they befriend each other after some disgusting adult scene
 
@Calaca I can see where you're coming from but considering Oden promised to open the borders of wano and 20 years later yet they're still closed, I think both shanks and Whitbeard wouldn't completely blank over the fact that Wano has remained isolated and has stayed under Kaido's rule.

We know Kaido has been captured several times and tortured, maybe Whitbeard and shanks did defeat Kaido but just weren't able to harm him so resorted to torture.
 
They have nothing to do with Wano and they pretty well know that politics are a bitch to deal with, so even if Oden promised it they would know the country has a long path to travel before opening its borders.

We still have no evidence of them actually capturing Kaido. Defeating him? Yeah, totally possible. But they have no reasons to do that to begin with as they might not know Oden's fate.
 
"To repeat, this is a man who challenged the navy and four emperors and was caught 18 times--and endured over 1000 tortures" caught means captured.

As for Whitebeard and Shanks I feel 20 years with no contact and Kaido still being at large there would at least raise eyebrows, we know Shanks and Whitebeard should at least have some idea considering Big Mom knew Kaido was operating in Wano.
 
He challenged the other emperors =/= he was captured by the other three emperors.

If the sentence were to be written "he challenged and was captured by the other emperors and the navy" then you would have a point.

Again, there's no evidence that they fought Kaido or even set a foot on Wano.
 
Yeah Cal I think you need to look at those two links Dr Fix sent they quite literally do disprove those points you're making. Mentioning the emperor's and him being caught in the same tense tells us he was caught by them.
 
They don't. The sentence doesn't specify anything. He has been captured, but doesn't say by whom. Shirohige and Shanks have no reason to do so, so why would they capture him and torture him? Shirohige has no interest in One Piece nor about Kaido's business and Shanks just wants to have crazy parties and relax.
 
They do "none of these people were able to kill him" "caught-- tortured" if you can't kill someone then you'd torture them, pretty simple stuff, maybe Shanks wouldn't torture him but then again Shanks' nature has been brought into question after the reverie, But both Whitbeard and Big Mom have absolutely no reason to not kill him, a promise is irrelevant if he's just challenged you to death and Whitebeard can't be so stupid to not at least question no contact or news from Oden and Kaido's growing power in wano, based off his actions at marineford I'd find it very weird if he didn't kill Kaido if he could.
 
What's your point again?

Being unkillable isn't the same as being invincible. You're acting like Oden killed Kaido and outright ignored the hype text which he was presented with.

Been brought into question by the readers because of what? None of that changes the good nature Shanks has shown through the show just because the Gorosei owns him for an unknown reason and pretending that means Shanks is prone to torture is one of the most hilarious and crazy claims that one could think about.
 
Argument is like we've been told The Yonko are unable to kill Kaido, yet Oden came the closest due to actually visibly scarring him, you claimed none of the Yonko would have reason to kill him, but they do.

Ive never claimed Kaido is invincible.

Idk why you're bringing up shanks I already said he probably wouldn't torture someone
 
That doesn't mean they can't injure Kaido. Scarring is good, but not necessarily mean it'd kill Kaido. You can have a lot of injuries without gaining scars, after all, such as brain concusion or broken bones.

You said Shanks nature is doubtful now, which has no basis outside of a "muh bad looks" panel used as argument.
 
Bit confused one what you're getting at there, the unable to kill seems pretty self evident, obviously I agree that those methods should work (but based on his narration you'd assume these things would have done him in at this point).

I meant it more so as Shanks probably wouldn't based off everything we know about him, but considering he was able to walk in the reverie like that could mean there's more to him that we don't know, ultimately I don't think Shanks would torture someone as like you said he prefers to party.
 
Eminiteable said:
Oden has fought Primebeard and Prime Roger that's enough, him cutting Kaido is the icing on top.
Click to expand...
>Prime Roger -> Roger slapped Oden away with a single attack and Oden was hurt. We never see them fighting. This is wrong.

>Primebeard -> Oden clashed with Whitebeard once, then later noted how Whitebeard had such power in which he had never seen. Whitebeard certainly put forth FAR more effort in attacking Roger than receiving Oden's attack. We see Oden's surprise during their initial clash.

>Kaido -> Pretty certain Kaido was likely far inferior to his current level of power.

20+ years ago: Oden is = if not > Kaido, but </<<< Roger and WB.

2 Years ago (WB's death): Kaido is certainly >>> than his 18 year gap counterpart. WB is at an unknown level, but this is where he performs his 6-B feat, and the other 3 Yonko are considered around the same threat level. Oden can't be compared because he's dead and there's basically a 2 decade gap.

Also, regarding scarring, you only need to break skin to do so, and we don't consider superficial injuries to be at a level in which it could kill an opponent (I mean, unless they are using poison). But in regards to Kaido vs Oden, I certainly believe Oden had the ability to kill Kaido at this point. They were both pretty evenly matched if we consider that they were battling eachother for an extended period and could hurt eachother, just that Oden got the edge in the fight.

Also, for the millionth time, we don't know WHY or HOW Kaido can not be killed by the marines or other pirates, so again, we should wait and see what happens

Oden likely used Goken to wound Kaido, but that's an assumption, and we know that there are other users among pirates and the marines, so it is strange that none of them would ever use it on him.
 
Overall point I'm making is consistently being described as "strong" and having three feats against known 6-B's makes it stupid to rate Oden on anything below 6-B. It should be noted Sakazuki was confident in fighting old sick whitebeard but feared interfering with Wano's samurai (which fear is mostly likely based off Oden)

>Prime Roger: He took the attack, i over simplified but Oden took the attack, got hurt, but was still able to keep fighting.

>Prime Beard: in their clash Whitebeard took Oden seriously and clashed with him equally, beforehand using statements such as "Hey, all of you stand back. something's coming...!! something incredible...!!" as well as "this doesn't look good" all the while slightly sweating, while previously he hadn't; obviously Prime whitebeard is stronger than Oden but the difference isn't so huge as to rate Oden being weaker than a sick old whitebeard (funnily Shanks is rated 6-B just via virtue of being a yonko and clashing in a similar fashion against whitebeard.)

As for Kaido, the scarring was more as it left kaido sweating and bleeding out of his mouth, what should be noted is in the next 20 years Kaido wasn't scarred again, it's unlikely this was due to Kaido growing x amount of times to the point where no one can harm him anymore, as emphasis was put on the fact Kaido only had one scar on his body.

We shouldn't perform mental gymnastics to determine how strong characters were 20, 6 etc years ago unless we're given actual direct statements that they grew more powerful in said time.
 
CinCameron20 said:
Eminiteable said:
Oden has fought Primebeard and Prime Roger that's enough, him cutting Kaido is the icing on top.
Click to expand...
>Prime Roger -> Roger slapped Oden away with a single attack and Oden was hurt. We never see them fighting. This is wrong.

>Primebeard -> Oden clashed with Whitebeard once, then later noted how Whitebeard had such power in which he had never seen. Whitebeard certainly put forth FAR more effort in attacking Roger than receiving Oden's attack. We see Oden's surprise during their initial clash.

>Kaido -> Pretty certain Kaido was likely far inferior to his current level of power.

20+ years ago: Oden is = if not > Kaido, but </<<< Roger and WB.

2 Years ago (WB's death): Kaido is certainly >>> than his 18 year gap counterpart. WB is at an unknown level, but this is where he performs his 6-B feat, and the other 3 Yonko are considered around the same threat level. Oden can't be compared because he's dead and there's basically a 2 decade gap.

Also, regarding scarring, you only need to break skin to do so, and we don't consider superficial injuries to be at a level in which it could kill an opponent (I mean, unless they are using poison). But in regards to Kaido vs Oden, I certainly believe Oden had the ability to kill Kaido at this point. They were both pretty evenly matched if we consider that they were battling eachother for an extended period and could hurt eachother, just that Oden got the edge in the fight.

Also, for the millionth time, we don't know WHY or HOW Kaido can not be killed by the marines or other pirates, so again, we should wait and see what happens

Oden likely used Goken to wound Kaido, but that's an assumption, and we know that there are other users among pirates and the marines, so it is strange that none of them would ever use it on him.
Click to expand...
1) Hurt? Proof?

2) I'm pretty sure we all agreed he was shocked that they weren't touching which we attributed to skill in armament haki, NOt Power. . . yourself included @Cin. As far as seeing WB in action, he never cites he was massively stronger than him. Only that he was more powerful than he'd seen back home . . . . AND this was many years before Kaido for Oden to improve.

3) Evidence?

4) Evidence?

5) Evidence?

6) For the millionth time stop over-complicating Kaido. If you want to give some weird ability to explain he can't be killed then go for it. Your refusal to acknowledge their is none which leaves simply stats, something we agreed upon years ago, is making discussion needlessly long.
 
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