The Self-Reference Engine Introduction Thread (Actually a cosmology discussion)

[Timeless]

Do I need to Bump here?

 

[Antvasima]

Ultima is talking with the native Japanese reader via my wiki message wall.

 

[Ultima_Reality]

Ultima Reality/Self-Reference

vsbattles.fandom.com

Ultima Reality/Corpus

vsbattles.fandom.com

Ultima Reality/Alpha Centauri

vsbattles.fandom.com

So, after doing some talking with the aforementioned Japanese reader and getting some important things translated, I did drafts for the verse's profiles. Opinions are welcome.

 

[KingPin0422]

Looks great, Ultima! The one suggestion I have is to expand on "Comprises all possible character strings" in the Self-Reference ENGINE's AP description.

 

[Sacchan]

Ultima Reality/Self-Reference

vsbattles.fandom.com

Ultima Reality/Corpus

vsbattles.fandom.com

Ultima Reality/Alpha Centauri

vsbattles.fandom.com

So, after doing some talking with the aforementioned Japanese reader and getting some important things translated, I did drafts for the verse's profiles. Opinions are welcome.

After reading all the 3 profiles, we can assume that those 3 are the strongest boundless as of now, surpassing WoD, SCP, and Cthulhu right?

edit: btw there should be profile for other important characters like Laplace Demon & the girl with bullet.

 

[Timeless]

After reading all the 3 profiles, we can assume that those 3 are the strongest boundless as of now, surpassing WoD, SCP, and Cthulhu right?

edit: btw there should be profile for other important characters like Laplace Demon & the girl with bullet.

they're coming (Laplace demon)
yes, it is the strongest

 

[Setsuna_tenma]

No talking about other verses. It derails the thread.

 

[Antvasima]

Ultima Reality/Self-Reference

vsbattles.fandom.com

Ultima Reality/Corpus

vsbattles.fandom.com

Ultima Reality/Alpha Centauri

vsbattles.fandom.com

So, after doing some talking with the aforementioned Japanese reader and getting some important things translated, I did drafts for the verse's profiles. Opinions are welcome.

It seems fine to me at least, but I am not the best person to ask. Should we send a notification to DontTalk and some other members who understand our tiering system well?

 

[MrOMG]

Ultima Reality/Self-Reference

vsbattles.fandom.com

Ultima Reality/Corpus

vsbattles.fandom.com

Ultima Reality/Alpha Centauri

vsbattles.fandom.com

So, after doing some talking with the aforementioned Japanese reader and getting some important things translated, I did drafts for the verse's profiles. Opinions are welcome.

By the way, aren't the Giant Knowledge Corps supposed to have two versions, one that can interact with infinite-dimensional structures, and one that is supposed to be at the very top of the intelligence/logic hierarchy, which makes them omnipotent within that hierarchy/history, It is clear, after all, that they have been climbing the ladder throughout the book Giant Knowledge Corps, and it looks like they were able to reach the top of that ladder, given that they were able to interact with a rung in a higher level hierarchy. And most importantly, as it seems to me, the profile of the Hypergiant Knowledge Corps should be the same as that of the Giant Knowledge Corps, that is, take into account all their representatives, not just one. After all, if we consider that the number of all hierarchies in the Ladder of Hierarchies should be equal to Theorems, then the number of various Transcendent beings should also be equal to Theorems, that is, the various higher levels/hierarchies should also be inhabited by some higher beings or other. I think it's worth mentioning this, like saying that "even the weakest representative from the Hypergiant Knowledge Corps race is qualitatively thirty levels superior to the Giant Knowledge Corps", then explaining about the Hierarchy of Ladders and the evolution of evolution itself so that it becomes clear why there is such a huge number of Theorems at all, and why it concerns the Hierarchy Ladder, then saying that some incredibly strong beings exist in these ladders.

 

[Rikimarox2]

Been a while since I came to the thread, but what are their tier 0 level rn? Last time I recall it was either baseline or an hierarchy above baseline, no?

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

Been a while since I came to the thread, but what are their tier 0 level rn? Last time I recall it was either baseline or an hierarchy above baseline, no?

Far above pre-downgrade downstreamers.

 

[EndlessWords]

@MrOMG

By the way, aren't the Giant Knowledge Corps supposed to have two versions, one that can interact with infinite-dimensional structures, and one that is supposed to be at the very top of the intelligence/logic hierarchy, which makes them omnipotent within that hierarchy/history, It is clear, after all, that they have been climbing the ladder throughout the book Giant Knowledge Corps, and it looks like they were able to reach the top of that ladder, given that they were able to interact with a rung in a higher level hierarchy

I don't remember them reaching the top of the logic hierarchy, it seems to me that they became omnipotent in their own layer and not in the whole hierarchy

And most importantly, as it seems to me, the profile of the Hypergiant Knowledge Corps should be the same as that of the Giant Knowledge Corps, that is, take into account all their representatives, not just one. After all, if we consider that the number of all hierarchies in the Ladder of Hierarchies should be equal to Theorems

A profile for the whole Hypergiant Corpora of Knowledge is possible but personally I prefer the choice of Ultima to have created a profile for Alpha Centauri which with Baphomet are the only representatives that we really see
Unless I am mistaken, Alpha Centauri does not reside in 30 higher hierarchies but just 30 layers above in the logic hierarchy.

 

[Elizhaa]

Ultima Reality/Self-Reference

vsbattles.fandom.com

Ultima Reality/Corpus

vsbattles.fandom.com

Ultima Reality/Alpha Centauri

vsbattles.fandom.com

So, after doing some talking with the aforementioned Japanese reader and getting some important things translated, I did drafts for the verse's profiles. Opinions are welcome.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I think the Tier 0 would have Large Size (Type 11) for Self-Reference and Alpha_Centauri. Related to these prior points, I think Corpus should have Large Size (Type 10) given the High 1-B.
Redundant as it may be, speed to range statistics should have both stats since there are two keys, for Self-Reference.
Everything else seems fine.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you very much for helping out, Elizhaa.

 

[Ultima_Reality]

By the way, aren't the Giant Knowledge Corps supposed to have two versions, one that can interact with infinite-dimensional structures, and one that is supposed to be at the very top of the intelligence/logic hierarchy, which makes them omnipotent within that hierarchy/history, It is clear, after all, that they have been climbing the ladder throughout the book Giant Knowledge Corps, and it looks like they were able to reach the top of that ladder, given that they were able to interact with a rung in a higher level hierarchy.

The Corpora never really ascended past their logical level in the main story, I don't think. The chapter discussing their metaphysical extinction briefly narrates a scenario where that took place, but then it immediately dismisses it as something that never happened, and later makes it clear that they never really left their level and always remained below the Hypergiant Corpora.

None of these things was the reason for the extinction of the giant corpora of knowledge. They died off due to reasons outside the realm of our imagination. It happened in a very strange fashion, and mere humans may not even approach comprehension of the reasons for their extinction.

The giant corpora of knowledge embrace a theory about the emergence of the hypergiant corpora of knowledge: A wall, like the light-speed limit, separates the hypergiant corpora of knowledge from humans and the giant corpora of knowledge. The hypergiant corpora of knowledge, on the far side of the wall, are slowing down as they approach the wall of the speed of light. Due to something we might call “knowledge pressure,” the giant corpora of knowledge are being blown against the wall on the low-speed side. The starting points are different. For fundamental physical reasons, it is impossible to go beyond the wall in either direction. That is, without taking everything apart, right down to bare earth.

Anyway: Is there anything left to do here?

 

[Antvasima]

Well, I can send a notification to some knowledgeable members, so they can confirm that your new pages seem acceptable.

Ultima Reality/Self-Reference

vsbattles.fandom.com

Ultima Reality/Corpus

vsbattles.fandom.com

Ultima Reality/Alpha Centauri

vsbattles.fandom.com

So, after doing some talking with the aforementioned Japanese reader and getting some important things translated, I did drafts for the verse's profiles. Opinions are welcome.

@DontTalkDT @First_Witch @KingPin0422 @Qawsedf234 @Pain_to12 @Agnaa

Would you be willing to help evaluate this please?

 

[PrinceofPein]

Well, I can send a notification to some knowledgeable members, so they can confirm that your new pages seem acceptable.

@DontTalkDT @First_Witch @KingPin0422 @Qawsedf234 @Pain_to12 @Agnaa

Would you be willing to help evaluate this please?

Did not check the ability section, but the AP section seems fine.

Also there is no justification for the speed.

 

[Agnaa]

I am not interested in evaluating this series.

 

[Ultima_Reality]

Bump.

 

[Lewis]

Ultima Reality/Self-Reference

vsbattles.fandom.com

Ultima Reality/Corpus

vsbattles.fandom.com

Ultima Reality/Alpha Centauri

vsbattles.fandom.com

So, after doing some talking with the aforementioned Japanese reader and getting some important things translated, I did drafts for the verse's profiles. Opinions are welcome.

I think the profile looks good.

 

[MrOMG]

The Corpora never really ascended past their logical level in the main story, I don't think. The chapter discussing their metaphysical extinction briefly narrates a scenario where that took place, but then it immediately dismisses it as something that never happened, and later makes it clear that they never really left their level and always remained below the Hypergiant Corpora.

Well, it seems to me that the Giant Knowledge Corps did go up in the hierarchy. The text said that the Giant Knowledge Corps accumulated knowledge or became smarter. And finally, the moment their bodies could no longer sustain the knowledge within them, the Hypergiant Knowledge Corps said that their level of knowledge had reached the right level for them to become part of the Hypergiant Knowledge Corps society, and they invited them in. And after a while they realized that their whole world was nothing more than one man's fiction. Or maybe the Giant Knowledge Corps just came close to the stepping stone in which Alpha Centauri lives.

As the volume of knowledge itself grew to enormous proportions, to the maximum conceivable scale and then beyond, at some point the physical foundation of its support became untenable. Like the burden on a corpulent human's heart, knowledge eventually tore through the bodies of the giant corpora of knowledge. Even then they could not stop eating, paving the way to a kind of contest of competitive gluttony for knowledge. When the giant corpora of knowledge received this year's championship from the hypergiant corpora of knowledge, their poor hearts had had enough of the long years of abuse. Their hearts had kept them going until this year, but now the limit had truly been reached. The hearts begged pardon and stopped.


It was as if the giant corpora of knowledge had been fustigating one another with stout staffs, when suddenly they all simultaneously struck one another in the head and had their brains bashed in. The first one lost his balance and crumpled and fell, bringing down all the others with him. Gazing over the heap of bodies, one could see letters spelling out THE END sputtering intermittently.


Eventually, someone declared, You have recklessly overworked yourselves, and now it's time to rest your bones. You can leave human affairs to the humans. That's what they thought was happening anyway. And with that they all nodded in assent, packed up their kit, and headed off to their eternal rest.


Just as all seemed to be moving right along down the road, the corpora headed off a cliff. The universe had qualities that no one had yet suspected, and the path trod by these massive entities grew narrower and narrower, terminating in a steep ravine. By the time they realized the straits they were in, it was too late. Pushed from behind by their fellows, the leaders were jostled, and there was no way out. The path grew ever narrower, the cliffs grew ever steeper, and ultimately all collapsed in an avalanche.


One day, the giant corpora of knowledge discovered that mail had arrived in their inbox from nowhere in particular. Somewhat suspiciously, they opened it, only to discover it was an invitation from the hypergiant corpora of knowledge. You have worked enough. Somehow or other, knowledge has reached a level of sufficiency. We wish to welcome you to our fellowship. Come to us and enjoy all the riches and honor you could ever wish for.


What honor could that mean? burbled the giant corpora of knowledge, all dressed up and excited, as they piled into the pumpkin carriage

 

[Ultima_Reality]

Well, it seems to me that the Giant Knowledge Corps did go up in the hierarchy. The text said that the Giant Knowledge Corps accumulated knowledge or became smarter. And finally, the moment their bodies could no longer sustain the knowledge within them, the Hypergiant Knowledge Corps said that their level of knowledge had reached the right level for them to become part of the Hypergiant Knowledge Corps society,

That's already answered by the two excerpts I've posted above. The novel makes it fairly clear that this is just a potential scenario explaining the Giant Corpora's extinction that never actually happened.

 

[Antvasima]

Ultima Reality/Self-Reference

vsbattles.fandom.com

Ultima Reality/Corpus

vsbattles.fandom.com

Ultima Reality/Alpha Centauri

vsbattles.fandom.com

So, after doing some talking with the aforementioned Japanese reader and getting some important things translated, I did drafts for the verse's profiles. Opinions are welcome.

@DarkDragonMedeus @SomebodyData @Celestial_Pegasus @Wokistan @Andytrenom @Elizhaa @Qawsedf234 @ByAsura @Sir_Ovens @Starter_Pack @Abstractions @LordGriffin1000 @Colonel_Krukov @SamanPatou @GyroNutz @Damage3245

Would any of you be willing to help evaluate this as well please?

 

[KingPin0422]

Looks great, Ultima! The one suggestion I have is to expand on "Comprises all possible character strings" in the Self-Reference ENGINE's AP description.

Very belated, but I already gave my evaluation here, Ant.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Thank you for helping out.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Looks okay from a glance.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you for the reply.

 

[Elizhaa]

I also already gave my evaluations above.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay, so can somebody write a tally regarding which members that think what here please?

 

[EndlessWords]

Ultima Reality/Corpus

vsbattles.fandom.com

In the capacities there are two times "law manipulation".
I think they should have the technology manipulation.
Considering that they can use universes as fuel to amplify themselves, they could have an amplification of statistics.
Also Dimensional Travel as it is stated that they have explored 20 billion dimensions as well as several parallel worlds

Ultima Reality/Alpha Centauri

vsbattles.fandom.com

Shouldn't it have causality manipulation like the Giant Corpora? (possibly technology manipulation too)
It also seems to me that the characters can create multiverses by dreaming so they would have dream manipulation.

 

[Timeless]

Okay, so can somebody write a tally regarding which members that think what here please?

All members agree. No one has brought up any criticism.

 

[Megaraptor149]

Long time no checked this thread

Ultima Reality/Self-Reference

vsbattles.fandom.com

I think Nemo Ex Machina should be added Space-Time Manipulation since he itself is a space-time construct. And also it's not the fighter and electronik brain should get profile too

 

[Ultima_Reality]

I think Nemo Ex Machina should be added Space-Time Manipulation since he itself is a space-time construct.

I don't know if I'd take that statement at face value. Nemo says that it was designed as a space-time construct, yeah, but that's the same kind of description that it prefixes with "not," to illustrate that it is ultimately completely nonexistent. For example:

I am a construction that has never existed, that was never designed from the beginning, to not tell all.

And you can also see this in the additional commentary chapter, where it is stated that its operation could perhaps be more accurately as "non-operation." So the implication is basically that, since the SRE is completely nonexistent, any descriptions of it can only occur in the negative (Describing solely what it is not)

 

[Ultima_Reality]

Shouldn't it have causality manipulation like the Giant Corpora? (possibly technology manipulation too)
It also seems to me that the characters can create multiverses by dreaming so they would have dream manipulation.

Noted, also.

 

[Antvasima]

Doctor 129 just provided further information:

Antvasima

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[Ovy7]

I have been reading the thread for a while now, and I'm kinda surprised it went this far even tho the stuff is pretty solid from the get-go. Anyway, I agree with the thread and profiles (and not because I introduced SRE to Ultima).

Also, the raws are interesting. Didn't know there was such a difference in the text (tho I should have expected this from Viz Media), as when I looked at the jp quote about the cardinal hierarchy, there hadn't been much of a difference. . . but at the same time I was using a MTL, so it was likely because of that :/

 

[Antvasima]

Well, this seems fine to apply. The issue is just if further information from Doctor 129 needs to be added first.

 

[Lewis]

Bump

 

[Lewis]

Bump.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, this seems fine to apply. The issue is just if further information from Doctor 129 needs to be added first.

@Ultima_Reality