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On the matter of Devil May Cry: Top Tiers justification

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A NLF is to suggest there are no limits to something due to it never explicitly showing a limit.

If one disagrees with the name thing. They could argue that perhaps it's presumptuous, over extrapolation or a non sequitur. But it isn't a NLF.

A NLF would be more like if someone took a statement such as "Mundus can create anything" then said that he can create a universe since Mundus can create "anything." Or since Mundus has never shown the inability to create something with his powers, to say he'd be able to create a universe.

Once again, I only think it serves as secondary evidence due to the additional feats and statements supporting it. It isn't very important, so I won't argue for it more besides this.
 
I asked him how it's bad reasoning, not on why he thinks it to be a no-limits fallacy. I'd like to add in the other statements, but I don't have the screenshots nor pdf's of where they originate from. I do agree that it is merely secondary evidence though; may not be too important.
 
One thing that should definitely be done is put links to at least two of the statements from Kamiya on the profiles. All of them would be preferable. Or screenshots.
 
I downloaded it, but it refuses to load for some reason. If you can collect screenshots via gyazo or whatever that'd be nice.
 
@AMM

You may need to use 7-Zip to extract the files. I can get the screenshots myself later, if you like.

EDIT: That stuff about the names is best suited for a note at the bottom of the relevant profiles and perhaps the verse page.
 
By the way, let's also change the speed rating for the relevant characters at "Unknown" until this feat is calced. It applies well because Dante and Mundus fight while flying and Mundus uses an attack with that same spining animation to try to kill Dante. They also react to energy/light and electricity fired at each other. We could find the speed in a fashion similar to the Sonic Rush calc from a while back.

EDIT: Also, everything except the win over Kratos is going to need be removed. In the Sonic thread, people were arguing that Sonic had enough toon force to contend with at least 2-A SMT characters, but let's not change the subject. Oh, but first, Matt, I may do SMT blogs; I wanna try this.
 
Let me try to word it out:

At least 3-A likely higher (In his fight with Dante Mundus created a pocket dimension which was confirmed to be a universe, also stated to be able to merge both the human world and demon world which are both universal in size)

(Idk if we put with at least or just straight up 3-A)
 
@Red

"At least 3-A, likely much higher" would be better since these feats could very well be fourth-dimensional in nature. Here is what I would have for the relevant pages:

Argosax: At least 3-A, likely much higher (Was going to fuse the Human and Demon Worlds together; stated to have taken over most of the Demon World; comparable to the likes of Sparda, Mundus, and full power Dante) Oh, and same for the Despair Embodied: (Superior to base)

Dante: At least 3-A, likely much higher (Defeated Mundus) DMC2: (Far stronger than Sparda, Argosax, and Mundus, even in base)

Mundus: At least 3-A, likely much higher (Comparable to Sparda and Argosax; split the original main DMC universe into two whole ones, and later began to reunite the two; created a mirror version of the Human World and the pocket universe inside Nightmare; created an entire universe to battle Dante in)

Sparda: At least 3-A, likely much higher (Superior to Argosax and Mundus; sealed the entirety of the Demon World so that even those within the Demon World who could cross into other universes could not escape the Demon World without the help of interlopers in the Human World)

I must go away for a few days for some unfortunate IRL matters; we can celebrate on my wall when I'm back. However, it would be good if everyone approved of my suggestions in the meantime. I have already provided the necessary links for citations, but I can edit them and a few more citations into the pages after the stats have been approved and added. By the way, my blogs show that there are many abilities to be added to relevant profiles, but that revision thread must wait until the blogs are truly complete. Before I go, I'll upload my work on the blog post for Dante. I wouldn't advise any Vs Threads with DMC characters before the work from all my blogs is complete and added to the profiles. Thank you all for your help and patience, and have a blessed weekend!
 
I am fine with a straight 3-A Mundus, Dante, Sparda, and Argosax. However, I am uncertain about "At least".
 
So we are rating the Mundus and the others as 3-A due to a lack of space-time being mentioned in the feat, correct? However, would this just be reality warping, or would this be considered a physical feat for Mundus/Dante as well?

As for what this means, perhaps this feat should just be considered under Mundus' AP, and not scale to him physically? Otherwise, we would have to upgrade a lot of profiles in terms of striking strength as well.

Mainly, Kaguya and Yhwach come to mind.
 
though we know Mundus wanted to merge the two worlds which were once one and apparently their space-time separated along with the separation. The thing is how is would it be done I need to remember if he did succeed in the merge and Sparda separated them later on idk i need to find a source saying Mundus succeed only so far i got http://********.me/manga/devil_may_cry/v01/c001/8.html he sealed the demon world separating it from the human world completely though idk what that really means in a sense like did it work or not
 
Creating a universe without pre-supplied materials; casually performed should logically mean any other attack had to have equivalent power via Attack Potency. It's also how we've been treating various other series, scaling creation feats to their physical statistics I mean. If anyone thinks otherwise, feel free to make a rebuttal.
 
after looking into it I guess it's more to invading so merging pretty much means invasion so i suppose it's more to just straight up 3-A. Sorry i interpret the manga a bit too far and wrong
 
I think of what Lina addresses does make sense to a certain degree. Similar to how characters like Noel Vermillio who only has Low 2-C via Reality Warping does mean we should likely see whether the situations are similar. Of course those familiar with DMC lore can answer this.
 
Dragonmasterxyz said:
I think of what Lina addresses does make sense to a certain degree. Similar to how characters like Noel Vermillio who only has Low 2-C via Reality Warping does mean we should likely see whether the situations are similar. Of course those familiar with DMC lore can answer this.
Click to expand...
I agree, I definitely feel like Mundus is 3A with reality warping but 5B outside of said reality warp. Being that he never really uses reality warping to a combat effect other then just making an arena, same with Argosax, Fante and Sparda.
 
If we're doing revisions, there's a couple speed feats that can be calc'd, Trish moving Dante out of the way of a laser(Pretty sure someone mentioned this), Dante saving Luceia from Arius's light attack(he uses multiple elements with light being one of them) and the fact that Dante fought demons in DMC1, such as the one's who are literally made of electricity and use plasma beams(see mission 16)
 
Nice work Follow. I've checked out your other blogs, and while I don't necessarily agree with all said there, I see sense in the explanations and interpretations.

I'm thinking when you get to "other characters" category, there are certain factors to consider regarding lesser Demons or some Devils.

- Most Demons can teleport in some way, and many are combat relevant.

- Most, if not all, Demons can steal souls (that's a prevalent thing in that verse).

- Most can distort or warp space, to various degrees. For example; the lowest Demons might just twirl space a couple of feet around them with their auras, but a superior Demon would manipulate mountain ranges -- I.e DMC4 Echidna, the She-Viper who corrupted the entirety of the Mitis Forest from the ground up to the sky with her aura.

- Many lesser Demons are as fast as lightning (DMC1,2,4)
 
Looking at Noel's profile, her reality warping power mostly comes from the Master Unit: Amaterasu, which was a tool specifically designed to reset space-time continuums at will. To simply put: the Master Unit is similar in comparison to a weapon that can reset universes compared to an actual being, from what I have read. Thus, Noel's space-time resetting feat via the Master Unit be considered outside assistance rather than an actual physical feat.

Just because one wields a gun =/= he or she has the same AP physically as the gun itself.

Now, as for how this relates to Mundus, considering that Mundus was able to casually split a universe and merge the two universes together just with his own power (no outside influences), it would make sense to scale Mundus' physical strength to this as well.

But then, a whole lot of different characters may be affected as well, considering we have characters that are able to control/merge/destroy dimensions of their own via their powers alone.
 
We scale creation feats to Attack Potency unless said character explicitly did so doing powers outside of their physical energy. Our Tiering System makes that clear with describing the tiers with "Characters who can create/destroy a ___"

Unless Mundus is someone like Adam Conover or Haruhi Suzumiya, I do not see why this feat should just be counted as non-combat applicable hax.
 
Unless a universe creating being is mentioned or implied to be a Glass Cannon or something, scaling their creation to their physical attributes should be fine. Otherwise we'll end up with double standards that add to wiki-wide inconsistencies. And no one wants that.
 
Nightmare too, I think. Unless that was not accepted or something (I've been only skimming the thread).
 
Argosax was apparently comparable in strength to Mundus/Sparda, as well as going to merge the human and demon worlds together.

We need to make a note saying that the human and demon worlds are the size of actual universes instead of dimensions of unknown size, however.
 
The problem is that Arius drawed the power of Argosax and was later slayed by Lucia, so them being 3-A does not make sense.
 
Arius only drawed a fraction of Argosax's real power. Since Argosax was not really wakened and the ritual was not complete (Arius had only 3/4 relics). He waked when Dante defeated his first form. Then the real Argosax, the "despair embodied" appeared.
 
Abigail, even though stated to be on par with Mundus and the others demon kings, was easily defeated by Dante with DT.
 
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