Ok, Let's Talk Kashin Koji (Boruto CRT)

[joshpiece]

When he fought Kashin, though, he at less than ten percent of his full strength; his body was still recovering from damaging itself.

His crystal that shows his body durability was fully recovered with it only cracking after spamming his jutsu. The 10% statement is for chakra capacity. I’ve already debunked this point. Please don’t bring this up again with no new information.

Are you starting to get what I'm saying?

No your just wrong and can’t accept it. Your starting to go in a circle making points I’ve already debunked

How we still going on with this?

Code stronger than Jigen = 5-C or Low 5-B

Koji Base = 5-C
Sm Koji = Low 5-B

why this an issue?

I have no clue I guess people don’t know what conceding is.

 

[Fastestthingalive50]

Ok, to be honest, I’m not even too sure what the argument null is pushing. The Delta point is what matters, and again, it hasn’t been debunked. There is no circular scaling for it.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Imo the 10% referring to chakra reserves fixes a lot of potential scaling issues too.

Since it would make only Isshiki, Sage KK, Baryon Mode Naruto, and I guess Code? Low 5-B

 

[Fastestthingalive50]

Imo the 10% referring to chakra reserves fixes a lot of potential scaling issues too.

Since it would make only Isshiki, Sage KK, Baryon Mode Naruto, and I guess Code? Low 5-B

Naruto and Sasuke Isshiki fight maybe, Code without limiters yeah.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

His crystal that shows his body durability was fully recovered with it only cracking after spamming his jutsu.

The crystal only began to crack once Jigen's body had reached its limit and was literally on the verge of destroying itself due to Isshiki's power.
Just because the crystal was healed does not mean that he was back at full strength. It just means that his condition was stabilized.

Along with that, Amado explicitly states that Jigen's power was still recovering following his fight with Naruto and Sasuke.
"Jigen was severely drained in that battle against you. This is a perfect opportunity that we won't ever see again."

We have explicit evidence that Jigen was heavily drained in that battle and his strength had not yet returned at the point of battling Kashin.
How you continue to ignore this is beyond my understanding and I'm a friggin' extradimensional pig.

The 10% statement is for chakra capacity.

No context points towards it being related to Jigen's Chakra. All of the statements involving Jigen being weakened following his battle with Naruto and Sasuke pertain to his body, his physical ability, not his energy. Besides, as pointed out earlier, Jigen was constantly absorbing Naruto and Sasuke's Ninjutsu throughout the fight, so unless he has such shit maximum capacity that he blows his load in seconds, so the idea that the "less than ten percent" was referring to his remaining Chakra is inane.

The Delta point is what matters, and again, it hasn’t been debunked.

The Jigen point also ties into the Delta point.

We should drop the Delta scaling, altogether.

As Damage pointed out, the battle never occurred so we have no definitive proof of how Koji would have fared against Delta, and we should stop acting like we do. And, the argument that "Amado created him with the purpose of killing Isshiki" means squat when he clashed against Karma Jigen with less than 10% of his power and then struggled against a Partial Otsutsuki-fication Jigen. That "less than 10%" thing alone should discredit him being on the same level as Six Paths Sage Mode Naruto and Sasuke, considering they held their own fairly well against a healthy and well-rested Karma Jigen.

You think the scale is broken? Here, I'll fix it for you.

See how this works?
Koji and Karma Jigen with less than 10% of his power are comparable, having brawled and kept up with each other.
Partial Otsutuki-ficiation Jigen is superior to the two of them by a wide margin.
Six Paths Sage Mode Naruto and Sasuke downscale from a full power Karma Jigen, and Delta is comparable to Naruto.
And then, Jigen just continues to grow stronger.

Which statements?
Because in the fight with Isshiki, they got absolutely mollywhopped.

 

[Fastestthingalive50]

Naruto and Sasuke weren’t really holding their own against Jigen, they were doing better against Isshiki.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Naruto and Sasuke Isshiki fight maybe

Once again, Naruto and Sasuke did nothing between the fights, especially Naruto.

Naruto gets captured by Jigen → Team Konohamaru rescues Naruto → Naruto recovers in hospital → Konohagakure investigates Amado → Isshiki confronts Konohagakure and attacks Naruto and Sasuke, all of which happened back-to-back. Unless Naruto gains a power boost after recovering from near-death like a Saiyan, or his power increases passively, he would not be any stronger between the Jigen fight and the Isshiki fight.

And Sasuke was also recovering, but to a lesser extent than Naruto.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Obviously Isshiki < Jigen I’m kidding before someone has an aneurism

 

[Fastestthingalive50]

But they have better feats. And idk man, Amado did say Naruto and Sasuke were the only ones who could stand a chance against Isshiki or whatever, even saying Koji couldn’t. Isshiki is also way above Jigen, so at least he and Baryon Mode should scale.

 

[joshpiece]

No context points towards it being related to Jigen's Chakra.

All context goes to chakra capacity. With him “recharging” and him being weary of using too much chakra by statements of multiple sources (not to mention amados whole plan catching him low on chakra). Stop changing the narrative to your head Canon

We have explicit evidence that Jigen was heavily drained

yes drained as in chakra capacity since that was Amado’s plan to catch him without chakra so he could force him to reincarnate. How you can’t realize this is insane.

It just means that his condition was stabilized.

So what is it is his condition so bad he’s less than 10% of his power or is his condition stabilized. Your arguments just make no sense

Naruto and Sasuke should not scale to ishiki he was toying with them.

 

[Fastestthingalive50]

Naruto and Sasuke scaling is just something I think, it’s not necessary for the op. Even then, they would just be stronger then against Jigen so it’s not like it matters to Koji scaling.

 

[Antvasima]

Can somebody summarise the arguments here, and which staff members that think what please?

 

[joshpiece]

Naruto and Sasuke scaling is just something I think, it’s not necessary for the op. Even then, they would just be stronger then against Jigen so it’s not like it matters to Koji scaling.

Let’s save that for another thread where you can compile all the evidence and make your argument in full.

Right now let’s just discuss koji being 5-C and sm koji being low 5-B

 

[joshpiece]

Jigen was at 10% chakra capacity do we scale Naruto when he fought Momo at 50% to be full on 50% weaker? No bc that’s not how chakra works and we all know that. So that’s not an anti feat for Koji jigen is still capable of 5-C attacks/durability in his 10% state.

Koji should definitely be 5-C he was literally made to kill jigen/ fight with Ishiki w/sm. Amado has made plenty of Androids stronger than jigen. so the smartest person in the world would send an android 10x weaker than delta in base to fight jigen? That logic makes absolutely no sense. Amado is not an idiot.

Base Koji should be 5-C flat out not possibly or likely.

Do better downplayers I can’t agree with these shit arguments we have to keep Naruto from getting 5-B….. ^ trolling

So you just ignored my whole argument…

He was at below 10% of his chakra capacity and recharging. Not 10% of his power this is just completely made up and is bs. Did Jigen suddenly become weaker fighting Naruto and Sasuke? No he was whooping their ass from 100% all the way to below 10% this argument is stupid and just wrong.

He was even weary of using a lot of chakra during the Naruto and Sasuke fight.

Yes, a Partial Otsutsuki-fication Jigen.
The Jigen that Kashin fought with only wielded the Karma. Against Partial Otsutsuki-fication Jigen, though, he automatically resorted to the flames.

Honestly when has chakra capacity = % of strength? Come on we just overriding the narrative of Naruto now

wouldn’t be the first time

So once again your not debunking my statements I’m starting to think you just agree.

Jigen with Karma is 5-C? Partial otsutsuki form is just the second form of the karma

Koji is 5-C in base you can’t avoid it or debunk it.

Wtv value he scales too should be x10 with SM whatever that produces should be scaled to Baryon mode Naruto Ishiki Code w/white karma and SM Koji. Nobody else

Codes base should still just be 5-C

Yep. With the Karma, at full strength, he battled with SPSM Naruto and Sasuke.
When he fought Kashin, though, he at less than ten percent of his full strength; his body was still recovering from damaging itself.

Are you starting to get what I'm saying?

His crystal that shows his body durability was fully recovered with it only cracking after spamming his jutsu. The 10% statement is for chakra capacity. I’ve already debunked this point. Please don’t bring this up again with no new information.

No your just wrong and can’t accept it. Your starting to go in a circle making points I’ve already debunked

I have no clue I guess people don’t know what conceding is.

Imo the 10% referring to chakra reserves fixes a lot of potential scaling issues too.

Since it would make only Isshiki, Sage KK, Baryon Mode Naruto, and I guess Code? Low 5-B

The crystal only began to crack once Jigen's body had reached its limit and was literally on the verge of destroying itself due to Isshiki's power.
Just because the crystal was healed does not mean that he was back at full strength. It just means that his condition was stabilized.

Along with that, Amado explicitly states that Jigen's power was still recovering following his fight with Naruto and Sasuke.
"Jigen was severely drained in that battle against you. This is a perfect opportunity that we won't ever see again."

We have explicit evidence that Jigen was heavily drained in that battle and his strength had not yet returned at the point of battling Kashin.
How you continue to ignore this is beyond my understanding and I'm a friggin' extradimensional pig.

No context points towards it being related to Jigen's Chakra. All of the statements involving Jigen being weakened following his battle with Naruto and Sasuke pertain to his body, his physical ability, not his energy. Besides, as pointed out earlier, Jigen was constantly absorbing Naruto and Sasuke's Ninjutsu throughout the fight, so unless he has such shit maximum capacity that he blows his load in seconds, so the idea that the "less than ten percent" was referring to his remaining Chakra is inane.

The Jigen point also ties into the Delta point.

All context goes to chakra capacity. With him “recharging” and him being weary of using too much chakra by statements of multiple sources (not to mention amados whole plan catching him low on chakra). Stop changing the narrative to your head Canon

yes drained as in chakra capacity since that was Amado’s plan to catch him without chakra so he could force him to reincarnate. How you can’t realize this is insane.

So what is it is his condition so bad he’s less than 10% of his power or is his condition stabilized. Your arguments just make no sense

Naruto and Sasuke should not scale to ishiki he was toying with them.

Can somebody summarise the arguments here, and which staff members that think what please?

Here are all my and null posts that matter

No staff have given input on my arguments yet

 

[Arkenis]

Ok I think this should pretty much clarify any Koji scaling to Jigen.
Amado destroyed cyborgs that were threats to jigen by jigens order, all except Code. So code obviously scales above karma Jigen and his horn form.

Next, Koji, Delta and Boro and Deepa don't scale as they were deemed weak enough to not be a threat.

I hope this clarifies something

 

[joshpiece]

Ok I think this should pretty much clarify any Koji scaling to Jigen.
Amado destroyed cyborgs that were threats to jigen by jigens order, all except Code. So code obviously scales above karma Jigen and his horn form.

Next, Koji, Delta and Boro and Deepa don't scale as they were deemed weak enough to not be a threat.

I hope this clarifies something

1. This doesn’t clarify anything Jigen didn’t know about koji’s true potential.

2. Koji literally boxed with Jigen he doesn’t have to be stronger but he’s definitely relative.

3. Delta is 5-C so not being a threat to Jigen isn’t proof of not being 5-C

 

[StrawHatArslan]

1. This doesn’t clarify anything Jigen didn’t know about koji’s true potential.

2. Koji literally boxed with Jigen he doesn’t have to be stronger but he’s definitely relative.

3. Delta is 5-C so not being a threat to Jigen isn’t proof of not being 5-C

Agreed once again

 

[Antvasima]

Can somebody summarise the arguments here, and which staff members that think what please?

I and other staff will likely not be able to help you otherwise.

 

[Galvino]

Here are all my and null posts that matter

No staff have given input on my arguments yet

Ant wants a summary so he and staff don't have to read everything.

 

[joshpiece]

Ok I’ll summarize my arguments in a lil bit

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you.

 

[joshpiece]

To summarize

Koji is 5-C in base for swapping hands with Jigen and taking his strikes.

His SM is a 10x multiplier so ishiki baryon mode Naruto and code w/white karma scale to Koji in SM

To summarize debunking the arguments.

People are making the claim that Jigen was at 10% overall power while fighting Base Koji so he shouldn’t scale.

This is just false the 10% statement is referring to overall chakra capacity. As Jigen states multiple times he is weary of using to much chakra as well as Kurama stated Jigen doesn’t want to waste chakra. And we all know chakra reserves doesn’t = overall strength. Also Amado’s plan was to have koji fight Jigen when he was at low chakra reserves to have him reincarnate as Ishiki

also it’s debunked with Jigens crystal on his body that shows when his body is deteriorating. It was fine starting out in both of the fights against Koji and Naruto/Sasuke with it only cracking after majority of the fight was over. Showing Jigen was fine physically at the beginning of both fights and can still have 5-C attacks/durability.

Edit: also supporting 5-C base Koji is that he was more than willing to fight Delta another 5-C character before he was planning on fighting Jigen. Although it could be speculated he would go into sage mode for the fight but that claim has no relevant evidence to prove so. Especially since Koji was making hand signs to use a jutsu and not enter sage mode (one where he doesn’t need to use hand signs to enter)

 

[Fastestthingalive50]

you should add the delta thing

 

[Arkenis]

1. This doesn’t clarify anything Jigen didn’t know about koji’s true potential.

2. Koji literally boxed with Jigen he doesn’t have to be stronger but he’s definitely relative.

3. Delta is 5-C so not being a threat to Jigen isn’t proof of not being 5-C

He knows Koji isn't enough to beat him and he also explains that Amado knew this as well.
Koji in base boxed with jigen?
If you're not powerful enough to be a threat to someone then you obviously can't beat them is my point, which is what jigens whole thing was for having the other cyborgs destroyed.

I still think Koji is 5-C just doesn't scale to jigen

 

[Fastestthingalive50]

Well the other cyborgs greatly surpassed Jigen’s power.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

You can be relative to someone and not fully scale. Like I think the point was never KK = Jigen and more like KK is relative to Jigen.

 

[joshpiece]

you should add the delta thing

thanks just edited it

 

[Fastestthingalive50]

Yeah, just that he at least scales above Toneri’s moon push or whatever other moon level feat we are using in base.

 

[joshpiece]

Koji in base boxed with jigen?

Yes they literally traded blows did you not read the manga?

He knows Koji isn't enough to beat him and he also explains that Amado knew this as well.

that was ishiki and that just proves Ishiki > Koji in sm something that is painfully obvious.

If you're not powerful enough to be a threat to someone then you obviously can't beat them is my point, which is what jigens whole thing was for having the other cyborgs destroyed.

Koji is relative to Jigen he wasn’t getting destroyed he held his own. He doesn’t have to be stronger than Jigen to scale to Jigen.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Keep in mind peeps that Jigen >>>>>>> the moon feat everyone scales. So even if KK doesn’t fully scale to Jigen (which obvi he doesn’t) it’d be sumn like KK ~< Jigen >>>> 5-C.

 

[joshpiece]

Yes thank you Arc looking beautiful like always

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Anything for you boo

 

[Fastestthingalive50]

Anything for you boo

But really, Ark is right.

 

[DuDE01010]

Yea no. We aren't going to ignore feats because of Koji's statement for a fight that never happened.

Partial form Jigen one shots Sasuke out of his Susanoo

Partial form Jigen three shots Naruto out of his SPSM

Sasuke vs Isshiki

Naruto vs isshiki

SM Koji vs Isshiki

In terms of performance Naruto > SM Koji > Sasuke. If Isshiki and SM Koji become low 5-B so does post Jigen fight Naruto and Sasuke.

 

[joshpiece]

In terms of performance Naruto > SM Koji > Sasuke. If Isshiki and SM Koji become low 5-B so does post Jigen fight Naruto and Sasuke.

What are you even on, Sm Koji swapped hands with Ishiki. Naruto didn’t do anything but grab him and get fodderized. Ig you could say he took some of his attacks but no way in hell can you argue they are close in power Ishiki is literally destroying Naruto and Sasuke. What feats are you even talking about? Nobody is ignoring anything.

Let’s save that for another thread where you can compile all the evidence and make your argument in full.

Right now let’s just discuss koji being 5-C and sm koji being low 5-B

^ save that shit for another thread bc it relys on RPL or some other ability to explain how he can get raggdolled by Jigen but is comparable to Ishiki. Without any training.

 

[DuDE01010]

What are you even on, Sm Koji swapped hands with Ishiki. Naruto didn’t do anything but grab him and get fodderized. Ig you could say he took some of his attacks but no way in hell can you argue they are close in power Ishiki is literally destroying Naruto and Sasuke. What feats are you even talking about? Nobody is ignoring anything.

Isshiki was more than happy to engage in H2H with Koji. Against Naruto he was defensive and all of Naruto's chakra arm hits went unanswered. Even escaped to attack Naruto from the back. So no, it's a much better look for Naruto.

^ save that shit for another thread bc it relys on RPL or some other ability to explain how he can get raggdolled by Jigen but is comparable to Ishiki. Without any training.

Except it has to be discussed as this upgrade relies on fixing the circular scaling. If it requires another thread, then this thread should be put on hold briefly because you can't just upgrade them when there's blatant errors in the scaling lol.

 

[joshpiece]

Isshiki was more than happy to engage in H2H with Koji. Against Naruto he was defensive and all of Naruto's chakra arm hits went unanswered. Even escaped to attack Naruto from the back. So no, it's a much better look for Naruto.

1. Koji blocked a full strike from Ishiki

2. He matched him in h2h and forced Ishiki to use his dojutsu to protect himself from the flames

3. Naruto never fully blocked an attack from Ishiki

4. Ishiki not even blocking Narutos chakra arms isn’t a feat for Naruto it’s damn near an anti feat showing Ishiki wasn’t even concerned about Naruto and just tanked all his hits.

None of this points to Naruto outperforming Koji.

If it requires another thread, then this thread should be put on hold briefly because you can't just upgrade them when there's blatant errors in the scaling lol.

This scaling chain has no blatant errors in the scaling. You just think Naruto and Sasuke got 10x stronger without any training? To the point where he outperforms Koji? Your insane

 

[joshpiece]

Can we please just have some staff members go over what I summarized and see if they agree with it.

You can argue scaling Naruto and Sasuke to ishiki another time.

 

[Reio35]

I can't post scans for some reason. But koji did block one of isshikis punches. And if you watch the fight he did better against isshiki then naruto and sasuke did not counting baryon mode naruto.

Amado was just gassing up naruto and sasuke saying they can beat isshiki when they got destroyed by a weaker jigen. Sasuke even admitted they got wrecked by jigen and won't be able to do anything against stronger isshiki. That would mean they did not get a lot stronger.

 

[DuDE01010]

1. Koji blocked a full strike from Ishiki

2. He matched him in h2h and forced Ishiki to use his dojutsu to protect himself from the flames

3. Naruto never fully blocked an attack from Ishiki

None of this points to Naruto outperforming Koji.

Isshiki went punch for punch vs Koji

Isshiki was defensive vs Naruto and didn't answer any of Naruto's punches. Unlike with Koji, Isshiki literally had to move behind Naruto to even attack him because of his chakra arm onslaught.

4. Ishiki not even blocking Narutos chakra arms isn’t a feat for Naruto it’s damn near an anti feat showing Ishiki wasn’t even concerned about Naruto and just tanked all his hits.

Just not true at all.

This scaling chain has no blatant errors in the scaling. You just think Naruto and Sasuke got 10x stronger without any training? To the point where he outperforms Koji? Your insane

Did you not see the fight? What are you on that this has no scaling issues.

Delta and Jigen are 5C for fighting SPSM Naruto.

Base Koji is 5C for fighting Jigen and being stronger than Delta

SM Koji is low 5-B for being 10x stronger

Isshiki is low 5-B for fighting SM Koji

Making SPSM Naruto low 5-B for fighting Isshiki

Which makes Delta and Jigen now low 5-B for fighting SPSM Naruto

Making base Koji low 5-B for scaling to them.

Do you want me to keep going?