Demon_Lord18
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This CRT is for that.
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Ninjago Star Tiering and Possible New Value
- Thread starter Lloydblitzed
- Start date
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Yeah, it feels like this was a really unique situation. The star formed because the Mega Weapon, made up of four GWs, was destroyed. It’s kind of like a nuclear bomb scenario—by itself, it’s big and heavy, and could probably crush a car, but when it explodes, it scales way higher than its physicals.
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All the context is in the blog linked in the OP. TL;DR: In Season 2 Episode 6: Wrong Place, Wrong Time, Golden Weapons created a star.
Scaling also explained in there, but I will just copy and paste it here:
Megaweapon Erasure Existence
Megaweapon erases from existence anyone who can't wield their power, comparable to how Golden Weapons do the same.Lord Garmadon
Lord Garmadon can survive them due to being not erased from existence while touching and using Megaweapon, as well as four Golden Weapons, thus proving he can wield its power.Ninjas
- Four main Ninjas (Kai, Jay, Zane, and Cole) tank the explosion created by four Golden Weapons together, even laughing it off later.
- Lloyd was also implied to have the power of the Golden Weapons, which explained how he could use element of Earth without using them, twice.
- Cole briefly touches the Megaweapon and not starting to be erased from existence. Meanwhile it might seem too short in order to deduce via that Cole scaling to Megaweapon, Megaweapon does not start to "shine" when Cole touches it, and Cole doesn't begin to be erased from existence, unlike the pirate who tried to do the same and started to "disappear" almost instantly. Also, logically, Cole would not do that if it was fatal to his life.
- Kai can harm and tank blows from Lord Garmadon.
- Kai, Lloyd, Jay, and Cole tank the explosion made by the elements of former three.
- Ninjas are consistently relative to each other.
- It was heavily implied that by the end of Legacy of the Green Ninja, Lloyd is far superior to his father. Later, in Sons of Garmadon, Lloyd can fight off Reborn Garmadon who is far superior to his past counterpart.
- Wu and Garmadon tank the explosion created by the 4 Golden Weapons together.
Others
Others scale via hurting Ninjas (or someone who already tanked Ninjas attacks), tanking their (or someone who already damaged Ninjas) attacks. Here are some examples:They could have collapsed due to their insane speeds. Also, they created it due to simply merging. If it was a nuclear bomb scenario, they would not really create any star, they would just explode tbh.
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There's a statement saying that Garmadon got stronger and had to the power to control all the 4 Weapons, but the Ninjas also got stronger, which likely explains why they could have some kind of relativity against Garmadon
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We literally see Garmadon create the Megaweapon by merging the golden weapons and no star is formed. The star creation is definitely a special case due to the interaction between the GWs and the Megaweapon.
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@Planck69 @Theglassman12
Ok, before I start debating this I just want to double-check what Planck and Glass had agreed with me about, and if they feel the same way about the upscaling.
Ok, before I start debating this I just want to double-check what Planck and Glass had agreed with me about, and if they feel the same way about the upscaling.
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- Thread starter
- #207
That's not the same feat at all, nor remotly the same action (Garmadon tries to create a new weapon vs Ninjas try to destroy a weapon of the same amount of power)
Alright
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Also I want to mention again that 4-C scales way above any other feat the main cast would scale to since this could be important for the discussion.
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Because he create the Megaweapon in a special place: Golden Peaks. Why do you think Garmadon & FSM did not just merge them right away, lol? Because what we saw in S2E9 would have happened.
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Not any. There are two feats in favor of direct 4-C scaling, and other feats that involve the non-scalable 4-C feats.
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I responded to the claim that the weapons simply merging lead to the creation of the star.
Also we see the golden weapons having a special interaction with the megaweapon before going to space which would change the circumstances of the feat.
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FSM never merged the golden weapons and Garmadon had no way of merging them by himself.
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Addressed in the blog. We went all over this with @Minaaaa for pages. I'll just copy and paste in case you're too lazy clicking the hyperlink (which seems to be the case):
Facts
Let's begin with the facts we know:Time Paradox was solved due to the destruction of Megaweapon.
This was suggested by Zane and Kai dialogue:Zane: I was thinking about that. It could be possible to erase the events that have transpired so far by destroying the Mega Weapon that brought us here in the first place.
Kai: You mean if we destroy that weapon, everything goes back to normal?
Zane: Uh, theoretically.
Nothing contradicts this, so it must be reliable, as it is the only solution to the problem that was suggested in the series. Thus, we established that destruction of the Megaweapon was the very reason why time paradox was successfully solved.
Golden Weapons destroyed the Megaweapon.
It was suggested by Cole and Jay's dialogue, as well as Garmadon's reaction to it (which goes right after Zane and Kai's):Cole: But nothing can destroy the Mega Weapon. Only a weapon of equal power has any chance of stopping it.
Jay: Haha, like maybe the weapons forged to create it in the first place?
Garmadon: No!
Cole: The Golden Weapons!
Jay: Yeah, I thought these might come in handy.
Even supported by what actually happens after that even further. Finally, we also have Sensei Garmadon's statement: "You used the Golden Weapons to destroy my Mega Weapon." Thus, we established the fact that Golden Weapons destroyed the Megaweapon, and that the entire time paradox was successfully solved due to it.
Golden Weapons landed on the comyet.
Confirmed in Rebooted.Megaweapon became a star which still exists in the present.
It is confirmed in the show where we see star formation, and star being still there after Ninjas safely get back to present, with it being further supported by Tommy Andreasen and other official outside sources.Golden Weapons "blob" was still functional.
This is evidenced by the fact that the blob still erased those who can't wield its power. It is also heavily implied by Overlord's desire to get the Golden Weapons back to complete his transformation into the Golden Master. If Golden Weapons lost their power, why use them?Explanation
"Two" Megaweapons
For the sake of the explanation, let's separate "two" Megaweapons:1) Megaweapon #1 — the original Megaweapon which was created by Lord Garmadon using the four Golden Weapons, and which he used to resurrect Soto's crew, Grundles, stop Ninjas from winning the race, create Ninjas' evil clones by using clothes of original ones, opening a portal to travel into the past, and accidentally transform Ninjas into the kids.
2) Megaweapon #2 — Megaweapon which was the result of four Golden Weapons and Megaweapon #1 collision. Existed only for a short amount of time.
Interpretations
Now, let's go to the intepretations of the scene we can make, and which one will be the most correct and will not contradict the five facts above.Interpretation #1
Golden Weapons destroyed Megaweapon when Ninjas were shooting their respective elements at the Megaweapon #1. Then, powerless Megaweapon #1 and Golden Weapons collided into the Megaweapon #2 and flew into the space. After the explosion, they splited once again, and Megaweapon #1 became a star, while Golden Weapons landed on the Delta V and became a blob. The coexistence of Megaweapon #1 and Golden Weapons is explained by the fact that not everything was erased from the past.It satisfies all the facts I listed earlier.
Interpretataion #2
Golden Weapons destroyed Megaweapon #1 during the collision, but since they also collided with each other, they effectively created a new Mega Weapon, Megaweapon #2. Megaweapon #2 flew to the space and became a star.This one fails to meet the fact that the Golden Weapons landed into the Delta V. If the Megaweapon #1 is physically destroyed, how could it become a star? How could Megaweapon #2 become a star if Golden Weapons are supposed to land later on Delta V?
Interpretation #3
Golden Weapons and Megaweapon #1 collided and thus created Megaweapon #2, being far stronger than 4 Golden Weapons or Megaweapon #1. When they flew into the space, they splited and Megaweapon #1 became a star and Golden Weapons becomes a blob.You might ask "But how this fails to meet all the facts? It is basically the same as Interpretation #1!" Well, although it might not be noticed at the first glance, this intepretation forgets one thing: fact #5, the fact that Golden Weapons blob was still functional, thus meaning that Megaweapon #1 should be still functional, because they both faced the same conditions while flying as Megaweapon #2. This means Megaweapon #1 would still be functional, failing to solve the time paradox.
Further back-up of Interpretation #1
Interpretation #3 failure clearly shows why Megaweapon #1 should have lost its power before the collision. To further support Interpretation #1, I'll use Sensei Garmadon's statement:| “ | I remember because I was there. You used the Golden Weapons to destroy my Mega Weapon. But when they collided, they were shot into... (space) | „ |
| ~ Sensei Garmadon explaining what happened |
"But when" clearly indicates that collision was after the destruction of the Megaweapon, thus indicating a chronological order of Garmadon's statement.
To support this even further, when Sensei Garmadon was saying "You used the Golden Weapons to destroy my Mega Weapon", the flashback visually showed Ninjas shooting their respective Golden Weapons' elements at Megaweapon. He also separated Megaweapon being destroyed from Golden Weapons and Megaweapon colliding.
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I meant that he created GWs there, not just anywhere
He could have just combined them, like he did in Golden Peaks, lol
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The blog only argues that the only the 4 golden weapons created the star and it never argues that the Megaweapon didn't have any prior influence on them before the star creation feat (which again we see on screen)
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It does. There is a whole ******* proof that the original MW was destroyed, that was the purpose of the blog. I recited it in the spoiler for you. A genuine question: Can. You. Read???
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There's no reason to believe that or any indication that he could do that in the show. We see the Megaweapon get created by the influence of the golden peaks, Garmadon had no role in merging them.
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Thanks for concession. Golden Peaks were the reason why they did not create a star. Also, by the way, Golden Weapons technically did form Megaweapon when merged during the Star feat, but they just flew away creating a star.
Do Ninjago haters have to come up with every single possible excuse just for the sake of downplaying?
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The blog doesn't that we see the interaction between the golden weapons and Megaweapon in the series
Also the blog assumes for some arbitrary reason that these 3 interpretations are the only ones possible.
I never said that and there's no indication of that of the show. I just said that Garmadon couldn't make them in any place because he doesn't have the ability to.
LOL. Ninjago is one of my favorite verses and I'm planning on making many profile improvements and abilities additions to the verse, but apparently disagreeing with the characters scaling to a certain tier makes me a hater. You're just being aggressive for no reason.
Anyways I will wait for more staff input since this seems to be going nowhere.
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It does. MW was destroyed and then GWs merged and flew away. It literally debunks that Megaweapon had any contribution to Golden Weapons' feat at all.
Because those are only relevant ones that have some ground? Sure, you can also argue that Source Dragons heard prayers of Ninjas and made a star and exploded GWs, you can always come up with infinite interpretations, but they will be simple groundless headcanons.
You just conceded that Golden Peaks influenced the GWs creation which refutes your point.
Haven't noticed that at all.
******* around with the verse I support is a pretty good reason for opposing you! And I am not being aggressive.
