Ninjago Star Tiering and Possible New Value

[Scarletjet]

There is no real indication the Golden Weapons were at their peak when doing this feat, they just did this as a result of them colliding with each other. In fact, they should have already spent most of their energy at that point on destroying the Megaweapon, so it can in no way be their peak energy usage.

Except the weapons still kept their power instead of being drainned up and still limits the golden weapons to 4-C amount of energy before being weakening to the point of breaking

Also, the part of our argument is not only explosions, but also the fact that Garmadon and Cole can hold, which requires to have equal or greater power than those Golden Weapons, so it would scale regardless of whether GWs did it normally or at peak of their energy usage.

4-C amount of energy is the atmost limit of the weapon because it breaks after it was done, the power still being there matters nothing since the weapon itself broke, it means that when the weapon uses 4-C amounts of energy it breaks for being unable to handle such high output, since it doesn't break anytime someone swings it then it's not a potency it can be used casually

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Except the weapons still kept their power instead of being drainned up and still limits the golden weapons to 4-C amount of energy before being weakening to the point of breaking

They never weakened tho, else why the hell would Overlord seek them + they are only stated to be drained after Zane absorbed sum of its power

4-C amount of energy is the atmost limit of the weapon because it breaks after it was done, the power still being there matters nothing since the weapon itself broke, it means that when the weapon uses 4-C amounts of energy it breaks for being unable to handle such high output, since it doesn't break anytime someone swings it then it's not a potency it can be used casually

It just got deformed into a blob by the quick collision in space. Also, what does it change to the fact Garmadon can control their whole power combined? Also, if it took equal amount of power from the Original GWs to destroy the Mega Weapon, that means the Mega Weapon on its own is casually 4-C as well...

We already went over this and ur just going circular. Let the staff comment

 

[Scarletjet]

They never weakened tho, else why the hell would Overlord seek them + they are only stated to be drained after Zane absorbed sum of its power

That's what I said.

It just got deformed into a blob by the quick collision in space. Also, what does it change to the fact Garmadon can control their whole power combined? Also, if it took equal amount of power from the Original GWs to destroy the Mega Weapon, that means the Mega Weapon on its own is casually 4-C as well...

We already went over this. Ur just going circular

Getting deformed means 4-C amount of AP turns them into blob since they aren't turned into Blob anytime someone swings the weapon then it's bellow 4-C simple as that.
How would that mean the Mega weapons have 4-C casual power? They got destroyed because of 4-C AP.
Also it says and I quote "has the power to control all four golden weapons" nowhere does it state he can control the full power of the weapons which would be the 4-C

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

Except the weapons still kept their power instead of being drainned up and still limits the golden weapons to 4-C amount of energy before being weakening to the point of breaking

They spent a ton of their energy to make Megaweapon effectively disabled. Yeah, they still had lots of it even after that, but the point remains.

4-C amount of energy is the atmost limit of the weapon because it breaks after it was done, the power still being there matters nothing since the weapon itself broke, it means that when the weapon uses 4-C amounts of energy it breaks for being unable to handle such high output, since it doesn't break anytime someone swings it then it's not a potency it can be used casually

It never said it broke due to creating star, that’s your headcanon. Flying at insane speeds is really easy for you, right?. And they were not at their FP regardless.
Cole and Garmadon scale to this fully even if you consider this GWs at their peak.

Also, may I remind you, the Golden Weapons in the form of blob did not lose their power even after the incident and were erasing anyone who touched them and were too weak… yeah.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Getting deformed means 4-C amount of AP turns them into blob since they aren't turned into Blob anytime someone swings the weapon then it's bellow 4-C simple as that.

Tbh the weapons did went in space at MFTL+ Speed which is why I brought the speed argument

How would that mean the Mega weapons have 4-C casual power? They got destroyed because of 4-C AP.

*They got destroyed by a power equal to them (The Mega Weapon is simply a combination of the 4 GWs togheter. I just want to make that clear)

Also it says and I quote "has the power to control all four golden weapons" nowhere does it state he can control the full power of the weapons which would be the 4-C

Garmadon went to the Realm of Madness just to gain enough strength to be able to counter that issue (Which was handling ALL of their power)

Wu: No one can handle all of their power at once.

Garmadon: Selfish fool. Did you think I wouldn't plan on your betrayal?

Samukai: What's happening to me?!

Garmadon: You've fallen right into my master plan. Not even I can handle all of their power!
...
Garmadon: Father is no longer here! Good and evil, there has always been a balance. Where I go, the balance can be destroyed. Soon I will be strong enough to possess the Four Weapons, so I can recreate the world in my image! (To Wu.) You! You were always his favorite. (Goes through the portal and escapes the Underworld.)

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

Tbh the weapons did went in space at MFTL+ Speed which is why I brought the speed argument

Speed matters nothing here considering KE has no effect since they are above the speed of light also all the weapons were going at the same speed so KE doesn't matter.

*They got destroyed by a power equal to them (The Mega Weapon is simply a combination of the 4 GWs togheter. I just want to make that clear)

Your whole point is about scaling a feat of the mega weapon to all 4 golden weapons which are obviously inferior to the mega weapon which is a combination.

Garmadon went to the Realm of Madness just to gain enough strength to be able to counter that issue (Which was handling ALL of their power)

None of that talks about their individual full power but the ability to use all 4 weapons, being capable of manipulating the 4 elements≠ manipulating all elements with 4-C potency.

 

[Scarletjet]

Speed matters nothing here considering KE has no effect since they are above the speed of light also all the weapons were going at the same speed so KE doesn't matter.

Your whole point is about scaling a feat of the mega weapon to all 4 golden weapons which are obviously inferior to the mega weapon which is a combination.

None of that talks about their individual full power but the ability to use all 4 weapons, being capable of manipulating the 4 elements≠ manipulating all elements with 4-C potency.

Appearing out a nowhere stealing my arguments

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

Appearing out a nowhere stealing my arguments

I will be out a here then

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Your whole point is about scaling a feat of the mega weapon to all 4 golden weapons which are obviously inferior to the mega weapon which is a combination.

huh? This is not the feat of the Mega Weapon

None of that talks about their individual full power but the ability to use all 4 weapons, being capable of manipulating the 4 elements≠ manipulating all elements with 4-C potency.

No, it refers to the ability of witsthanding the power of the GWs togheter, not the ability to manipulate the 4 Elements which Garmadon already had . Garmadon litterally said this after Mr Samukai died to the GWs, and that's backed up by the pirate's fate when trying to hold the Mega Weapon, Completly 2 unrelated things

 

[AigerTheKing]

None of that talks about their individual full power but the ability to use all 4 weapons, being capable of manipulating the 4 elements≠ manipulating all elements with 4-C potency.

Notice how its written "their power" and not "their powerS"

Why tf is this even discussed again? Like DarkDragon said, we already went over this, stop clogging this thread:

We already went over the elements thing being UES as well as creation feats. But the star creations aren't implied to be casual compared to physical attacks and what not.

 

[Scarletjet]

huh? This is not the feat of the Mega Weapon

It's a feat for the mega weapon against all golden weapons which is currently scaled as if each golden weapon is as strong as 1 mega weapon

No, it refers to the ability of witsthanding the power of the GWs togheter, not the ability to manipulate the 4 Elements which Garmadon already had . Garmadon litterally said this after Mr Samukai died to the GWs, and that's backed up by the pirate's fate when trying to hold the Mega Weapon, Completly 2 unrelated things

I think he meants powers not specifically elements

 

[Lloydblitzed]

We already went over the elements thing being UES as well as creation feats. But the star creations aren't implied to be casual compared to physical attacks and what not.

It's a feat for the mega weapon against all golden weapons which is currently scaled as if each golden weapon is as strong as 1 mega weapon

Like I said, I agree with Wu's Tier 4, and the GW's being Tier 4 when they explode. What I disagreed with was trying to scale to those feats, but that's based on the UES which I have no clue about.

How many times do I have to precise that we are not scaling a Single Golden Weapon to the Mega Weapon, but all the 4 weapons togheter to the Mega Weapon (basically comparing 4 apples to...4 apples). Also, the GWs feat is, and I quote, just a supporting feat, the 4-C/4-A dimensions feats, especially Mindaro's, are what are currently argued to be used for a higher value and to support Wu's feat

I don't think it's ever mentioned Mindaro's magic is good magic, it's just a special kind of magic that he can use by making whatever he paints come to live and where his emotional state affects his drawings. Good and bad magic have never shown their properties being changed based on emotions. (Bad magic is inherently bad and the opposite for good magic. They are never shown to change properties based on the user's emotions)

1. You need to prove that all Magic that scales to each other draws from the same source or can convert from one type to another
2. Good, Dark and Djinn magic are not the only kinds of magic as many other spells aren't labeled as a specific kind of magic (Fungus' and Mindaro's magic for example)

What I call "Good Magic" is just non corrupted/non evil magic btw

I think he meants powers not specifically elements

Its made pretty clear in the show that handling all of their power togheter is very different from handling the power of a single GW or using the 4 elements

 

[Scarletjet]

How many times do I have to precise that we are not scaling a Single Golden Weapon to the Mega Weapon, but all the 4 weapons togheter to the Mega Weapon (basically comparing 4 apples to...4 apples). Also, the GWs feat is, and I quote, just a supporting feat, the 4-C/4-A dimensions feats, especially Mindaro's, are what are currently argued to be used for a higher value and to support Wu's feat

One of the feats you were using to scaling them to main cast is them fighting each other with 1 golden weapon.

Its made pretty clear in the show that handling all of their power togheter is very different from handling the power of a single GW or using the 4 elements

You want to scale base ninjas to the full power of the golden weapons+ mega weapons when you very clearly agree that the power of the golden weapons is far above ninjas base powers

 

[Lloydblitzed]

One of the feats you were using to scaling them to main cast is them fighting each other with 1 golden weapon.

Huh no? I only used Kai fighting Garmadon with the Mega Weapon

You want to scale base ninjas to the full power of the golden weapons+ mega weapons when you very clearly agree that the power of the golden weapons is far above ninjas base powers

The Mega Weapon's only contribution was getting blown to ashes, else no time paradox fixing. We already over this too, here, and into 3 other 7-11 pages CRTs. Re-reas the OP at this point

 

[YmTheSuper]

The Star feat is the only of 2 AP feats the Golden Weapons togheter have

As I mentioned multiple times this feat happened under the influence of the Megaweapon so it wouldn't scale to them normally.
Even if we ignore that, the golden weapons are being unstable during the feat and aren't behaving normally (They are flying into each other and then merging and getting shot into space, there is a clear outside influence as they wouldn't just do this normally by themselves)

the other one being created a Super continent

They didn't do this normally or by themselves since it was the FSM who used them to create Ninjago (one of the God-Tiers in the verse), there's no reason to believe this is their regular output.

If we want to talk about casual feats for the Golden Weapons then we have two other feats of them making contact that show much lower scale of power. (Both feats are being used in the op as evidence for the main cast scaling the The GWs)

the weapons did went in space at MFTL+ Speed

The fact that they got sent to space at MFTL+ feats further supports that this isn't a normal feat for the GWs and that there was an outside influence on them. We literally see them merge in the series prior to this and nothing like this happens.

Also, what does it change to the fact Garmadon can control their whole power combined

You need to prove that being able to use the Golden Weapons requires one to scale to them or have the same power as them in the first place.
Even then you need to explain why The Golden Weapons Merging and flying at MFTL+ speed into space creating a star and getting physically deformed in the process makes it require 4-C AP to wield.

Why tf is this even discussed again? Like DarkDragon said, we already went over this, stop clogging this thread:

I mainly talked here about replies made directly to DDM's message but yeah most replies being made aren't really contributing anything and are just clogging the thread. Please everyone just wait for more staff response as most things have been discussed extensively.

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

Speed matters nothing here considering KE has no effect since they are above the speed of light also all the weapons were going at the same speed so KE doesn't matter.

You can’t get an exact value from KE, but you still need an enormous amount of energy to travel at huge speeds.

Your whole point is about scaling a feat of the mega weapon to all 4 golden weapons which are obviously inferior to the mega weapon which is a combination.

Megaweapon is literally Golden Weapons combined + it was literally stated that MW can be only destroyed by the weapon of an equal power which led Ninjas to GWs.

None of that talks about their individual full power but the ability to use all 4 weapons, being capable of manipulating the 4 elements≠ manipulating all elements with 4-C potency.

No? It says you must be as powerful, you are genuinely contradicting the most established thing in the series regarding Golden Weapons.