Ninjago Star Tiering and Possible New Value

[YmTheSuper]

Please tell me why Ki was accepted as a UES over the simple scan of: Ki can be used to physically amplify their stats?

This is whataboutism using one of the most straight forward UES in fiction being Ki in Dragon Ball where literally all their physical stats rely directly on Ki and all their techniques and combat rely on it.

Nothing even remotely close to this is even implied in regards to Mindaro's magic. No correlation between his physicals and magic is shown except for him becoming weaker physically with his magic becoming which is directly stated to be not enough for a UES.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Because they also show during the series that their energy attacks scale to their physicals. It's not just ki amplifying their bodies.
This is why you don't use whataboutism arguments.

This is whataboutism using one of the most straight forward UES in fiction being Ki in Dragon Ball where literally all their physical stats rely directly on Ki and all their techniques and combat rely on it.

Nothing even remotely close to this is even implied in regards to Mindaro's magic. No correlation between his physicals and magic is shown except for him becoming weaker physically with his magic becoming which is directly stated to be not enough for a UES.

I addressed this already here

He doesn't have much "different type of attacks". When at normal power lvls, he can both make a creature as strong as he is and make a barrier to contain him

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

I addressed this already here

If that's all there is, then I'm currently in agreement with YmTheSuper.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

If that's all there is, then I'm currently in agreement with YmTheSuper.

What else needs to be proven?

 

[Lloydblitzed]

This is whataboutism using one of the most straight forward UES in fiction being Ki in Dragon Ball where literally all their physical stats rely directly on Ki and all their techniques and combat rely on it.

Nothing even remotely close to this is even implied in regards to Mindaro's magic. No correlation between his physicals and magic is shown except for him becoming weaker physically with his magic becoming which is directly stated to be not enough for a UES.

I will address the other feats later

If that's all there is, then I'm currently in agreement with YmTheSuper.

U told me to prove a Non Physical System which I did, what is wrong with it?

 

[AigerTheKing]

Yes It's used as one of the many requirements for a UES not the sole requirement. The UES page itself states that it isn't enough.

Because they also show during the series that their energy attacks scale to their physicals. It's not just ki amplifying their bodies.

This is why you don't use whataboutism arguments.

His physical are said to be reliant on his magic. The same scan I just sent also explains he can make magical barrier strong enough to keep his creation from getting out of the dimension, which means his Creation = His other Attacks = his Physicals

This is very obviously an unrealistic sun.

Mindaro did not make this Sun. Jalena also implies what's painted is real. Many of his other paintings got realistic looking Celestial bodies anyways

Being able to use the GWs =/= surviving the golden weapons exploding and creating a star after becoming unstable, merging and being sent into space under the effects of the Megaweapon (Which itself is made of 4 other GWs).

The GWs were used to destroy the Mega Weapon, the Mega Weapon had no influence on that. Do we have to go back to the point of the GWs having a UES again?

There's no reason why being able to use the weapons requires surviving their destruction after becoming unstable.

When did the GWs ever get destroyed? Also, I think we keep forgetting what I posted on the 1st page. The GWs power have a physical effect on others, with their power going inside someone's body, which is the reason weaker beings die off trying to hold them

Nope, the weapons merging making them create a star automatically is Orange's argument. You can't deny the influence of the Megaweapon on the GWs which is shown in the show that makes it a special case that shouldn't be used to scale the GWs normally. The blog you're using to scale the feat agrees that the weapons collided with the Megaweapon further supported by Garmadon stating that they collided.

Collide ≠ Merging btw

I already went further into detail here. And most staff members agree that this feat in particular shouldn't be used to scale them.

They agree that the explosion feat specifically shouldn't be used

Nadakhan creating a copy of Ninjago that is illuminated:
1. A star is never shown in the pocket dimension.
2. The arguments for djinn magic being a UES are that Arrakor is weaker physically without his powers and that he Became stronger after regaining them which according to the page about universal energy systems is not enough for it to be considered a UES which would just make it simply a creation feat.
3. I don't even think anyone would scale to Nadakhan AP wise

Did you listen to Kai's wish?

Kai: Dad? (Grunts.) I wish you could take me back. Back to when things were good. Back to before all this mess, when people likes us and bad guys like you were never a problem. Back to the days when girls were crazy for me.

Which implies he remade Ninjago like it was before Nadakhan's crew stepped in

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

His physical are said to be reliant on his magic. The same scan I just sent also explains he can make magical barrier strong enough to keep his creation from getting out of the dimension, which means his Creation = His other Attacks = his Physicals

That is definitely not what it says. He gets physically weakened (in other words, tired) by the exercise of keeping the Chroma contained, not that he physically literally depends on his magic. This is stamina, not AP expenditure.

 

[AigerTheKing]

That is definitely not what it says. He gets physically weakened (in other words, tired) by the exercise of keeping the Chroma contained, not that he physically literally depends on his magic. This is stamina, not AP expenditure.

Still proves Non physical Energy System

 

[YmTheSuper]

Mindaro did not make this Sun. Jalena also implies what's painted is real. Many of his other paintings got realistic looking Celestial bodies anyways

Just because we see his paintings containing stars doesn't mean they are the same size as normal ones as we don't see characters enter these paintings for scale. But even if we do consider them 4-C creation feats they wouldn't scale to physicals because it isn't a UES and neither to the rest of his magic because it isn't a Non-Physical energy system. And even if we consider them as such I don't think 2 4-C pocket dimension creation feats are enough justification to upscale the main cast from Tier 7 to Tier 4.

The GWs were used to destroy the Mega Weapon, the Mega Weapon had no influence on that. Do we have to go back to the point of the GWs having a UES again?

I talked about this extensively here I don't think much more justification is needed.

Also, I think we keep forgetting what I posted on the 1st page. The GWs power have a physical effect on others, with their power going inside someone's body, which is the reason weaker beings die off trying to hold them

Yes but nothing implies that the AP required to use them is 4-C.

Collide ≠ Merging btw

The blog used in the op agrees that the Megaweapon and GWs colliding lead to their merging and the creation of a new Megaweapon and it's even implied in the show since the golden weapons disappear while revolving around the Megaweapon and then it starts flashing more brightly. If you have a different interpretation then explain it.

Did you listen to Kai's wish?

Which implies he remade Ninjago like it was before Nadakhan's crew stepped in

There's no reason to believe that he recreated the whole realm or anything like that when we only see Ninjago City being created and the sun is never shown so assuming it's there is just headcanon. Also again Djinn magic isn't a UES so it wouldn't scale to Nadakhan's physicals and also no character really scales directly to Nadakhan's physical so even if accepted It would just apply for him.

 

[Demon_Lord18]

Jalena also implies what's painted is real. Many of his other paintings got realistic looking Celestial bodies anyways

This is level 4-A since it has a starry sky