Ninjago Star Tiering and Possible New Value

[YmTheSuper]

the Ninjas harming those scaling to the Star feats are far more consistant than the city feats

Ninjago Anti-Feats

vsbattles.fandom.com

It's one thing to have 1 or 2 anti-feats. It's another matter when you have this many anti-feats especially when you are trying to scale characters above their usual showings and relying on only 2 feats that are far far above any other feat they would scale to. (Will probably add more anti-feats to the blog later because uploading to Imgur isn't working for me right now)

 

[YmTheSuper]

Also since we are using characters tanking the blasts of the Golden Weapons to scale them to 4-C coming into contact there is a contradiction.

This thread and the blog are going under the assumption that the contact of the golden weapons should scale similarly to one holding the four weapons at once, and that both scale to the feat where the golden weapons get shot into space and form a star and there are problems with that.

We know that Garmadon in the pilots can't use all 4 golden weapons at once and that he was able to use them only after going to the realm of madness where he used dark magic to grow four arms. But we see that he managed to survive a blast that was formed after the golden weapons came into contact BEFORE the pilots which would lead to a contradiction. We also see the ninja in the end of the pilots tank the same blast and we know that they scale lower than Garmadon by that point.

So since holding the golden weapons at once and getting hit by a blast created from them coming into contact have different results this would imply one of two things:
1. Surviving Holding the Golden Weapons at once and getting hit by a blast coming into contact do not require the same level of power

2. Holding the golden weapons has nothing to do with stats but rather requires immunity to existence erasure

Also why would the contact of the golden weapons or holding the golden weapons together even require 4-C to survive since the 4-C feat required the Golden Weapons to react to the Megaweapon and to get send to space at very fast speed, the two feats are very different.

Due to this and all my previous arguments for the feat being an outlier I will disagree with the op.

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

Ninjago Anti-Feats

vsbattles.fandom.com

It's one thing to have 1 or 2 anti-feats. It's another matter when you have this many anti-feats especially when you are trying to scale characters above their usual showings and relying on only 2 feats that are far far above any other feat they would scale to. (Will probably add more anti-feats to the blog later because uploading to Imgur isn't working for me right now)

I can debunk literally any ******* verse to 10-B by the same logic, these are blatant PIS.

Also since we are using characters tanking the blasts of the Golden Weapons to scale them to 4-C coming into contact there is a contradiction.

This thread and the blog are going under the assumption that the contact of the golden weapons should scale similarly to one holding the four weapons at once, and that both scale to the feat where the golden weapons get shot into space and form a star and there are problems with that.

Yes, due to UES. Unless you can debunk it, lul.

We know that Garmadon in the pilots can't use all 4 golden weapons at once and that he was able to use them only after going to the realm of madness where he used dark magic to grow four arms. But we see that he managed to survive a blast that was formed after the golden weapons came into contact BEFORE the pilots which would lead to a contradiction. We also see the ninja in the end of the pilots tank the same blast and we know that they scale lower than Garmadon by that point.

Holding GWs would EE you if you are not as powerful AND do not have 4 arms, so they can be as powerful and still be unable to hold it because they have only 2 arms.

2. Holding the golden weapons has nothing to do with stats but rather requires immunity to existence erasure

This is just lying atp, it was very explicitly said that you need to be as powerful to hold GWs/MW.

Also why would the contact of the golden weapons or holding the golden weapons together even require 4-C to survive since the 4-C feat required the Golden Weapons to react to the Megaweapon and to get send to space at very fast speed, the two feats are very different.

UES. This is the feat that GWs did when they contacted each other, so.

 

[YmTheSuper]

I can debunk literally any ******* verse to 10-B by the same logic, these are blatant PIS.

The anti-feats wouldn't matter if the verse had more than two 4-C feats which isn't the case, not to mention that every other feat that can be used to scale them is far lower.

Also I'm not suggesting to downgrade them to 10-B or anything that low since there exists a good amount of Tier 7/Tier 8 feats that are pretty consistent.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Ninjago Anti-Feats

vsbattles.fandom.com

It's one thing to have 1 or 2 anti-feats. It's another matter when you have this many anti-feats especially when you are trying to scale characters above their usual showings and relying on only 2 feats that are far far above any other feat they would scale to. (Will probably add more anti-feats to the blog later because uploading to Imgur isn't working for me right now)

Man Im sorry but what the heck? These arguments are mostly all related to LS or are just Character Induced Stupidity you can see in a lot of other shows in the wiki

Kai says the ninja can't break or lift a door because it's made of metal

Heavy case of CIS (A lot of cartoons display such stuff like that as well)

Cole struggles to turn gears

LS issue

Cole struggles in a feat against a giant spider and gets stuck in its web

Heavy CIS (He litterally keeps up with Vangelis later on, who is far above that Spider)

Ninja can't open a locked wooden door and need True Potential Cole to open it

LS issue again

Ninja need to combine their powers to open a large door

Clearly just the Ninjas lacking the LS to open the fortified door. (And this is contradicted with Cole having the strength to move mountains)

Jay and Nya are afraid of dynamite

That just doesn't justify anything. If X character fear bullets, does that seriously makes him 9-B??

Ninja are unable to stop their boat from hitting rocks during a storm and they pass-out for a while from the impact

That's just the momentum and the force caused by the impact boat to make them go unconscious. I don't understand how is that an anti feat

Jay and Cole struggle to remove wooden planks used to a lock door opening

LS ≠ AP

It's implied that this would have damaged Lloyd's body

Nya created tech that is capable of harming the Ninjas, as shown in S1

Ninja get stuck under a ship's mast

LS crush again

Cole shows some struggle to destroy a lock

That's a lock supposively made of Vengestone to keep the Ninjas from escaping, Cole would be weakened here

Lloyd and Harumi believed that a cave collapsing on the Ninja would kill them (they only survived because they hid inside of an old train)

The Ninjas feared they would get LS crushed by the rocks

Ninja get overwhelmed by Treehorns (Wildlife in Ninjago)

Really don't see what that justifies. Monsters could just be as strong as they are

Cole gets injured from this fall

Yeah...while taking bunch of blows from Yang

Lloyd is scared of getting shot by a flintlock

CIS yet again. This is legit just like Wonder Woman getting harmed by bullets even if her dura scales way higher

Harumi dies from a building collapsing (Confirmed in Crystalized)

Getting LS crushes ≠ AP + Harumi isn't even star lvl

Overall, these are mostly not anti feats at all, and most of these feats have no relations to AP. We also have a rule about sharp objects harming people

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

The anti-feats wouldn't matter if the verse had more than two 4-C feats which isn't the case, not to mention that every other feat that can be used to scale them is far lower.

Also I'm not suggesting to downgrade them to 10-B or anything that low since there exists a good amount of Tier 7/Tier 8 feats that are pretty consistent.

Gravity Falls has all of the cast scaling to 8-B and Relativistic+ despite them having more consistent Tier 10-9 and Superhuman speeds. As you see, just one primary feat and another supporting that is close but not even not in the same tier is already more than enough, and here we literally have two legit feats, and the anti-feats you mentioned work literally against any Tier 9-8-7 as well… so yeah, you are just lowballing for the sake of doing so.

 

[YmTheSuper]

Gravity Falls has all of the cast scaling to 8-B and Relativistic+ despite them having more consistent Tier 10-9 and Superhuman speeds. As you see, just one primary feat and another supporting that is close but not even not in the same tier, and here we literally have two legit feats, and the anti-feats you mentioned work literally against any Tier 9-8-7 as well… so yeah, you are just lowballing for the sake of doing so.

The gap between 8-B and Tiers 9/10 is way smaller than the gap between 4-C and Tiers 7/8. It's not even comparable.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

The anti-feats wouldn't matter if the verse had more than two 4-C feats which isn't the case, not to mention that every other feat that can be used to scale them is far lower.

I still fail to see why making an Ice Column and a feat done by a weakened Morro are used over these 2 feats being made more consistant (Not only that but the said characters who produces the feats keeps up with people scaling to the 4-C chain when fighting). Morever, the Ninjas keeps getting stronger over the course of the show, really don't see why we would downplay them so hard

The gap between 8-B and Tiers 9/10 is way smaller than the gap between 4-C and Tiers 7/8. It's not even comparable.

This is just heavy downplay. There's many verses who are reliant on a few or a single feat with a solid and consistant chain to mark their rank, Tier 8 is such a downplay as the lowest ranks next to 4-C in the verse is Low 4-C individual GWs

 

[YmTheSuper]

LS issue again

Clearly just the Ninjas lacking the LS to open the fortified door. (And this is contradicted with Cole having the strength to move mountains)

LS ≠ AP

They could have destroyed the doors in all of these feats to achieve the same effect.
Also I'm using these anti-feats to show that the Ninja are not portrayed to be anything even close to star level.

 

[YmTheSuper]

There's many verses who are reliant on a few or a single feat with a solid and consistant chain to mark their rank

1. This is just whataboutism
2. I assume such verses would have other feats that are close to that feat. (a 1 or 2 tier jump wouldn't really be an outlier for most tiers)

is such a downplay as the lowest ranks next to 4-C in the verse is Low 4-C individual GWs

The individual GWs scaling to Low 4-C literally relies on the same feat that puts them together at 4-C. This isn't really an argument.

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

The gap between 8-B and Tiers 9/10 is way smaller than the gap between 4-C and Tiers 7/8. It's not even comparable.

Still supposed to be an outlier in both cases, yet here we are. Another example is Wander over Yonder which scales to 4-C due to a single feat. I can show you wayyyy more. That’s just not how outliers work.

They could have destroyed the doors in all of these feats to achieve the same effect.
Also I'm using these anti-feats to show that the Ninja are not portrayed to be anything even close to star level.

They are not portrayed as Tier 7 mfs either, just Wall level then.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

They could have destroyed the doors in all of these feats to achieve the same effect.
Also I'm using these anti-feats to show that the Ninja are not portrayed to be anything even close to star level.

No, they were clearly not using striking strength to open these doors, and mind you the Jay/Cole feat was done while they were powerless

1. This is just whataboutism

No, that's just not how we qualifiy inconsistancies/outliers.

The individual GWs scaling to Low 4-C literally relies on the same feat that puts them together at 4-C. This isn't really an argument.

Lowballed weakened feats isn't a supportive argument either, especially when the character has stronger ones

 

[Scarletjet]

Man Im sorry but what the heck? These arguments are mostly all related to LS or are just Character Induced Stupidity you can see in a lot of other shows in the wiki


Heavy case of CIS (A lot of cartoons display such stuff like that as well)

LS issue

Heavy CIS (He litterally keeps up with Vangelis later on, who is far above that Spider)

LS issue again

Clearly just the Ninjas lacking the LS to open the fortified door. (And this is contradicted with Cole having the strength to move mountains)

That just doesn't justify anything. If X character fear bullets, does that seriously makes him 9-B??

That's just the momentum and the force caused by the impact boat to make them go unconscious. I don't understand how is that an anti feat

LS ≠ AP

Nya created tech that is capable of harming the Ninjas, as shown in S1

LS crush again

That's a lock supposively made of Vengestone to keep the Ninjas from escaping, Cole would be weakened here

The Ninjas feared they would get LS crushed by the rocks

Really don't see what that justifies. Monsters could just be as strong as they are

Yeah...while taking bunch of blows from Yang

CIS yet again. This is legit just like Wonder Woman getting harmed by bullets even if her dura scales way higher

Getting LS crushes ≠ AP + Harumi isn't even star lvl

Overall, these are mostly not anti feats at all, and most of these feats have no relations to AP. We also have a rule about sharp objects harming people

So... hum... class T characters having an hard time with normal locks and doors? "Elemental Masters are naturally stronger than normal humans" some of the feats they has an hard time with could be done by normal humans

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

So... hum... class T characters having an hard time with normal locks and doors? "Elemental Masters are naturally stronger than normal humans" some of the feats they has an hard time with could be done by normal humans

Stop derailing, this is an AP discussion, not LS one. Go ahead and downgrade the verse in terms of LS in your own separate thread.
Why are there so many Ninjago haters popping up from everywhere lately lmfao

 

[Aolphl]

Although the Golden Weapons explosion scene looks strange, I agree with the thread

 

[Aolphl]

So... hum... class T characters having an hard time with normal locks and doors? "Elemental Masters are naturally stronger than normal humans" some of the feats they has an hard time with could be done by normal humans

Simply P.I.S, not anything

 

[OrangeFR]

What, is Saitama below average human in speed because he couldn’t catch a mosquito? Is Sonic wall level because he dies from spikes? Is Paper Mario wall level because he can’t break metal blocks without a stronger hammer? Is Goku less than planetary because he struggled to lift 40 tons in base? Of course not, anyone could spend like 5 minutes playing any video game or watching any show or movie or reading any book that has anything to do with powerscaling and nerfing them to average human level because of inconsistencies.

Ninjago Anti-Feats

vsbattles.fandom.com

It's one thing to have 1 or 2 anti-feats. It's another matter when you have this many anti-feats especially when you are trying to scale characters above their usual showings and relying on only 2 feats that are far far above any other feat they would scale to. (Will probably add more anti-feats to the blog later because uploading to Imgur isn't working for me right now)

 

[Scarletjet]

Yes, due to UES. Unless you can debunk it, lul.

The weapons that got "deformed" by the tier 4 feat shouldn't scale to a normal blast from the GW even in a full on UES

 

[Lloydblitzed]

The weapons that got "deformed" by the tier 4 feat shouldn't scale to a normal blast from the GW even in a full on UES

The blog already goes over this, read it. They kept all their normal powers and propreties, and the OP address that point

 

[Scarletjet]

The blog already goes over this, read it. They kept all their normal powers and propreties, and the OP address that point

I read it and it wouldn't matter, if that blast was tier 4 it would have "deformed" the weapon just like it happened in that other time.