Ninjago Star Tiering and Possible New Value

[YmTheSuper]

Not really, bc their AP = Their Dura

I'm not talking about the 4-C scaling, I'm saying that the contact between the weapons doesn't cause existence erasure but a physical blast and that the EE of the golden weapons is hax based and not AP based, and the arguments you're using imply that the EE of the golden weapons is only related to the AP and dura of the holder.

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

I'm not talking about the 4-C scaling, I'm saying that the contact between the weapons doesn't cause existence erasure but a physical blast and that the EE of the golden weapons is hax based and not AP based, and the arguments you're using imply that the EE of the golden weapons is only related to the AP and dura of the holder.

You do realize that the only way to trigger EE is to be less powerful than GWs, which is, uh, supportive in favor of 4-C Ninjas rather than debunk against it?

 

[YmTheSuper]

You do realize that the only way to trigger EE is to be less powerful than GWs, which is, uh, supportive in favor of 4-C Ninjas rather than debunk against it?

And it is also supportive in the existence erasure of the GW not working on anyone who scales to 4-C or above and Garmadon losing his resistance to existence erasure (since it would be tied to AP)

 

[YmTheSuper]

Btw we should probably get some staff votes

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

And it is also supportive in the existence erasure of the GW not working on anyone who scales to 4-C or above and Garmadon losing his resistance to existence erasure (since it would be tied to AP)

I actually planned to nerf EE stuff, but never got my hand onto it

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Btw we should probably get some staff votes

Yeah, we need 1 more

 

[REX9097]

And it is also supportive in the existence erasure of the GW not working on anyone who scales to 4-C or above and Garmadon losing his resistance to existence erasure (since it would be tied to AP)

Lloyd literally stated that he is stronger than before (Novel: Way of the Departed), it was also never mentioned that he lost it as Lloyd himself said that his powers had become stronger than before.

 

[YmTheSuper]

Tbh I agree that the golden weapons and megaweapon creating a star is a star level feat but I still think they should be considered outliers since for mid-tiers/low-tiers (who are characters that would scale to this) the next highest feat is a 6-A feat which is on a vague statement from a magazine (and it mentions that Scythe of Quakes helped in forming the continents of ninjago so we can take the statement to mean that the Scythe of Quakes was used to create the continents of Ninjago along the other weapons which is already stated in the show and I established earlier that the individual Golden Weapons shouldn't be scaled using the feats of them combined and that's even mentioned in the blog)

If we ignore both of those feats then we get consistent Tier 7 and Tier 8 feats for the verse for the mid-tiers/low-tiers as shown here, here and here

Overall I don't think that 2 feats that vastly outscale everything in the series for the base ninja and other characters in their same tier of power should be used to scale basically every character in the series (Try opening any profile of a character that appeared in the original series and you'll find 4-C scaling) and overall I think they should be considered outliers.

 

[REX9097]

Tbh I agree that the golden weapons and megaweapon creating a star is a star level feat but I still think they should be considered outliers since for mid-tiers/low-tiers (who are characters that would scale to this) the next highest feat is a 6-A feat which is on a vague statement from a magazine (and it mentions that Scythe of Quakes helped in forming the continents of ninjago so we can take the statement to mean that the Scythe of Quakes was used to create the continents of Ninjago along the other weapons which is already stated in the show and I established earlier that the individual Golden Weapons shouldn't be scaled using the feats of them combined and that's even mentioned in the blog)

If we ignore both of those feats then we get consistent Tier 7 and Tier 8 feats for the verse for the mid-tiers/low-tiers as shown here, here and here

Overall I don't think that 2 feats that vastly outscale everything in the series for the base ninja and other characters in their same tier of power should be used to scale basically every character in the series (Try opening any profile of a character that appeared in the original series and you'll find 4-C scaling) and overall I think they should be considered outliers.

6-A is now obsolete, we have Low 4-C now but no changes have been applied.

 

[YmTheSuper]

6-A is now obsolete, we have Low 4-C now but no changes have been applied.

What's the Low 4-C feat?

 

[REX9097]

What's the Low 4-C feat?

Each Golden Weapon get upgrade to Low 4-C due to 4-C (all GWs togheter) divided in 4 being Low 4-C (meaning each Golden Weapon is 1/4 of 4-C feat)

 

[YmTheSuper]

Each Golden Weapon get upgrade to Low 4-C due to 4-C (all GWs togheter) divided in 4 being Low 4-C (meaning each Golden Weapon is 1/4 of 4-C feat)

So it basically would basically scale from the same feat which means that this wouldn't be supporting evidence since I was mentioning how the 4-C scaling and this feat would be an outlier since the next feat for the base Ninja and people that scale to them (mid-tiers and low-tiers) would be 6-A (which is questionable as I clarified in the previous post) and after that feat we get many consistent feats in the Tier 7 and Tier 8 range.

Also, you can't just split the powers of combined Golden Weapons into the individual ones since the Golden Weapons combined behave differently and have different properties from the golden weapons individually and thus can't be scaled linearly (the special abilities being mainly the Existence Erasure that is only a property of the Golden Weapons together and also having the power of creation), even the blog mentions that the golden weapons combined are much stronger than each of them individually.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Tbh I agree that the golden weapons and megaweapon creating a star is a star level feat but I still think they should be considered outliers since for mid-tiers/low-tiers (who are characters that would scale to this) the next highest feat is a 6-A feat which is on a vague statement from a magazine (and it mentions that Scythe of Quakes helped in forming the continents of ninjago so we can take the statement to mean that the Scythe of Quakes was used to create the continents of Ninjago along the other weapons which is already stated in the show and I established earlier that the individual Golden Weapons shouldn't be scaled using the feats of them combined and that's even mentioned in the blog)

If we ignore both of those feats then we get consistent Tier 7 and Tier 8 feats for the verse for the mid-tiers/low-tiers as shown here, here and here

Overall I don't think that 2 feats that vastly outscale everything in the series for the base ninja and other characters in their same tier of power should be used to scale basically every character in the series (Try opening any profile of a character that appeared in the original series and you'll find 4-C scaling) and overall I think they should be considered outliers.

Completely disagree, as most of these calcs used to scale the Ninjas are were made at a time where
the existence of the Star feats in the verse was ignored (Heck, I could downgrade any verse by basing myself on calcs alone instead of clear feats/statements that bring us higher). Not only that but the blog clearly establish the fact it isn't an outlier bc the GWs combined have a little amount of feats (which is a disqualifier for outlier), as well as tanking the GWs itself being shown twice at the beginning of the show, and again in S16, and I'd like to remind you the GW feat is backed up with another Star feat from a character who made a dimension with a Star casually, the same guy who also took the GWs power and is on par with the Ninjas in power. I feel like that's just downplaying at this point

Also, you can't just split the powers of combined Golden Weapons into the individual ones since the Golden Weapons combined behave differently and have different properties from the golden weapons individually and thus can't be scaled linearly

I really don't see why their power would decrease or change. The GWs exploding and killing weaker being physically is just like Wu's punches and Elemental attacks scaling to each other yet not necesserally "being the same thing"

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

The co-existence of two feats, and the fact that these feats are pretty blatant and there is no contradiction in them, pretty much kills any possibility of 4-C being an outlier. Objective scaling > fan calcs. I will just note that if Ninjago will be downgraded to Tier 6-7 due to that, I will just make 100+ calcs on Tier 9-10 Ninjago and downgrade Ninjago to that level by a similar logic.

 

[YmTheSuper]

as most of these calcs are done ignoring the existence of the GWs (Heck, I could downgrade any verse by using feats that doesn't reach a certain lvl of power just through calcs).

I'm not saying it's an outlier because weaker feats exist. I'm saying it's an outlier becasue in all 15 seasons of the original series only this feat reaches even remotely close to 4-C for the Ninja in their base and the characterrs they scale to every other feat is much lower in scale than this one.

I'd like to remind you the GW feat is backed up with another Star feat from a character who made a dimension with a Star casually, the same guy who also took the GWs power. I feel like that's just downplaying at this point

Even if we consider Wu's dimension creating feat star level I still think It's an outlier because using only 2 star level feats to scale every single character in the verse out of more than 200 episode that establish a much lower scale of power simply feels wrong.
I don't know how one can watch the series and end up concluding that Ultra Violet is star level

GWs combined have a little amount of feats (which is a disqualifier for outlier)

According to the page on outliers in the wiki

An Outlier is an event or incident that is considered to be completely and irreconcilably inconsistent with a character, entity, group, or series' normal displayed level of power.

The feat is indeed an outlier in regards to the group of characters it is used to scale.

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

There are tons of AP-based verses anyways… unless you expect a series to destroy star for whatever reason in each season.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

I'm not saying it's an outlier because weaker feats exist. I'm saying it's an outlier becasue in all 15 seasons of the original series only this feat reaches even remotely close to 4-C for the Ninja in their base and the characterrs they scale to every other feat is much lower in scale than this one.

Because what? Of fan made calcs being used over primary feats? This is just going back to what Aiger said: Goku didn't shake Universe 7 plenty of times so he's not Low Multiversal

Even if we consider Wu's dimension creating feat star level I still think It's an outlier because using only 2 star level feats to scale every single character in the verse out of more than 200 episode that establish a much lower scale of power simply feels wrong.

What? That's just extremely wrong bc the Ninjas scaling to Wu is also heavily shown consistant in the show. Why would we need characters to produce 20 Star feats to scale to it when the scaling chain scales them there?

I don't know how one can watch the series and end up concluding that Ultra Violet is star level

Why?

According to the page on outliers in the wiki
The feat is indeed an outlier in regards to the group of characters it is used to scale.

The blog already address why it isn't

 

[Lort15]

There are tons of AP-based verses anyways… unless you expect a series to destroy star for whatever reason in each season.

My headcanon but maybe we need a discussion rule for Kids cartoon like not blowing up Planets/stars for every second in the episodes, Cartoons usually don't kill characters in a brutal way because of the age limit

 

[YmTheSuper]

Why would we need characters to produce 20 Star feats to scale to it when the scaling chain scales them there?

Because the feats scale much higher than anything else used to scale them.

Goku didn't shake Universe 7 plenty of times so he's not Low Multiversal

This just whataboutism and Goku and characters of his caliber actually have many feats and scaling close to Low Multiversal throughout the series not to mention that characters on his level being threats to the universe is a recurring thing in super.

Because what? Of fan made calcs being used over primary feats?

Show me a single feat that comes even remotely close to star level that can be used to scale the base Ninja other than the Golden Weapons star creation feat and Wu creating a dimension.
Also the wiki relies on calcs to scale the characters so calcs here are considered accurate sources of scaling.

Also I want to point out that we don't have a timeframe for Wu creating his dimension to scale the feat and also that The Virtues of Spinjitzu (the short series where the feat) being canon is disputed due to statement of people involved with Ninjago (here and here)

The blog already address why it isn't

The blog only mentions that the Golden Weapons together don't have many feats but completely ignores that this feat will be used to scale existing characters that have many feats and showings.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Because the feats scale much higher than anything else used to scale them.

Its actually low considering Ninjas have wisthanded blows from L1C character in the series

Show me a single feat that comes even remotely close to star level that can be used to scale the base Ninja other than the Golden Weapons star creation feat and Wu creating a dimension.

Lloyd's feats

Also the wiki relies on calcs to scale the characters so calcs here are considered accurate sources of scaling.

A lot of verse are also reliant on 1 or 2 feats that puts them to a certain lvl bc a scaling chain exist

Also I want to point out that we don't have a timeframe for Wu creating his dimension to scale the feat and also that The Virtues of Spinjitzu (the short series where the feat) being canon is disputed due to statement of people involved with Ninjago (here and here)

Stories written by Tommy can be trusted canon. Stories not contradicting the show is are canon

The blog only mentions that the Golden Weapons together don't have many feats but completely ignores that this feat will be used to scale existing characters that have many feats and showings.

Many feats of these characters harming others who are established to be on the GWs lvl of power from the beginning of the show

 

[AigerTheKing]

Because the feats scale much higher than anything else used to scale them.
This just whataboutism and Goku and characters of his caliber actually have many feats and scaling close to Low Multiversal throughout the series not to mention that characters on his level being threats to the universe is a recurring thing in super.

A verse such as Honkai Star Rail has its characters at Star lvl over a single feat. You don't need 1 million star feats if characters are shown on the same level as someone who produced a Star feat

Also I want to point out that we don't have a timeframe for Wu creating his dimension to scale the feat

Wu instantly vanished the dimension with a hand swipe

The blog only mentions that the Golden Weapons together don't have many feats but completely ignores that this feat will be used to scale existing characters that have many feats and showings.

The blog does take it into account

• Four main Ninjas (Kai, Jay, Zane, and Cole) tank the explosion created by four Golden Weapons together, even laughing it off later.
• Lloyd was also implied to have the power of the Golden Weapons, which explained how he could use element of Earth without using them, twice.
• Cole briefly touches the Megaweapon and not starting to be erased from existence. Meanwhile it might seem too short in order to deduce via that Cole scaling to Megaweapon, Megaweapon does not start to "shine" when Cole touches it, and Cole doesn't begin to be erased from existence, unlike the pirate who tried to do the same and started to "disappear" almost instantly. Also, logically, Cole would not do that if it was fatal to his life.
• Kai can harm and tank blows from Lord Garmadon.
• Kai, Lloyd, Jay, and Cole tank the explosion made by the elements of former three.
• Ninjas are consistently relative to each other.
• It was heavily implied that by the end of Legacy of the Green Ninja, Lloyd is far superior to his father. Later, in Sons of Garmadon, Lloyd can fight off Reborn Garmadon who is far superior to his past counterpart.
• Wu and Garmadon tank the explosion created by the 4 Golden Weapons together.

 

[OrangeFR]

I agree with OP

 

[Minaaaa]

Looks like the old star topic has came up again but anyways, i have issues (as always)

1. why are we using feats from the pilots to scale to something that happened in season 2? Besides the fact that them "tanking" the blast in the pilots is a clear indication of PIS and is treated as a gag, its consistently stated that no one could wield all of the weapons at once. Wu literally says this before Samukai dies trying to, not even garmadon could handle their power at that point so anything from the pilots cant be used.
2. Lloyd having the power of the GW is clearly talking about having all of the elemental powers (zane literally says this). GW are their own seperate thing.

It doesn't make sense to scale to them before the feat because of the whole, No one but garmadon can posses the weapons, and the star feat takes place after garmadon scaling.
It cant scale after the feat either because zane couldn't handle the power when attatched to overlord (Hell the GW themselves cant handle their own power in Crystallized), meaning the other ninja cant scale to it either. even if the feat is valid, it would scale to literally no one except the GW.

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

Looks like the old star topic has came up again but anyways, i have issues (as always)

Waited for it

1. why are we using feats from the pilots to scale to something that happened in season 2?

We have no implications of them being weaker in Pilots than Season 2.

1. Besides the fact that them "tanking" the blast in the pilots is a clear indication of PIS and is treated as a gag, its consistently stated that no one could wield all of the weapons at once.

Kai was equal to Garmadon and Cole could take the MW anyways, even if you interpret it as a gag, although it’s a legit feat.

1. Wu literally says this before Samukai dies trying to, not even garmadon could handle their power at that point so anything from the pilots cant be used.

Because you need to be BOTH as powerful AND have 4 hands.

1. Lloyd having the power of the GW is clearly talking about having all of the elemental powers (zane literally says this). GW are their own seperate thing.

It was more of a supportive anyways.

It doesn't make sense to scale to them before the feat because of the whole, No one but garmadon can posses the weapons, and the star feat takes place after garmadon scaling.

Garmadon is the only one who has 4 hands.

It cant scale after the feat either because zane couldn't handle the power when attatched to overlord

Are you implying that the strongest Overlord fo was killed by 4-C power? Lol. The whole scene overall is just a massive contradiction to everything established for the sake of sad death, unless you want to break everything established we just dismiss this point.

(Hell the GW themselves cant handle their own power in Crystallized), meaning the other ninja cant scale to it either. even if the feat is valid, it would scale to literally no one except the GW.

Kai scales to Garmadon who directly scales to MW.
Lloyd also one-shotted Garmadon with his mech.
Cole could take the MW without getting EE’d.

 

[Minaaaa]

We have no implications of them being weaker in Pilots than Season 2.

its doesnt need to. we already have direct statements saying almost no one could handle the power, if samukai and pre realm of madness couldnt, then the ninja cant.

Kai was equal to Garmadon and Cole could take the MW anyways, even if you interpret it as a gag, although it’s a legit feat.

see above

Because you need to be BOTH as powerful AND have 4 hands.

no you just needed to be powerful enough to hold them. samukai had 4 but was killed cuz he wasnt strong enough, on the other hand, the overlord didnt have 4 hands but was strong enough to hold them

Cole could take the MW without getting EE’d.

if garmadon himself gets weakned by the MW, then why would cole's "feat" even be usable? hes nowhere near as strong as garmadon. This is just a case of PIS

 

[AigerTheKing]

its doesnt need to. we already have direct statements saying almost no one could handle the power, if samukai and pre realm of madness couldnt, then the ninja cant.

no you just needed to be powerful enough to hold them. samukai had 4 but was killed cuz he wasnt strong enough, on the other hand, the overlord didnt have 4 hands but was strong enough to hold them

Garmadon is vastly above Samukai at that point (Notice how the scan specifically states he needed more strength than Samukai, which he had), and was also powerful enough to tank its power. However he lacks the 4 arms aspect which is needed. The other Dimension feat also exist

if garmadon himself gets weakned by the MW, then why would cole's "feat" even be usable? hes nowhere near as strong as garmadon. This is just a case of PIS

He gets weakened because he consummes a lot of energy after a wish using the MW. That really doesn't change anything and is just a huge Stamina draining case

 

[Minaaaa]

We'd have the pilot ninja scaling to a feat that happened in season two scaling from a guy who was the literal only one said to be able to handle said power? Also if garmadon needed four arms (confirmed here) to scale to the weapons, why are we scaling to people without it? this would either mean no one scales to it but garmadon or its been retconned.

this verse's scaling is very weird

 

[Lloydblitzed]

We'd have the pilot ninja scaling to a feat that happened in season two scaling from a guy who was the literal only one said to be able to handle said power?

He could've been lying as well since he knows Wu could handle the power

Also if garmadon needed four arms (confirmed here) to scale to the weapons, why are we scaling to people without it? this would either mean no one scales to it but garmadon or its been retconned

Bc UES as pointed out earlier + we have Wu's feat which would scale to those people. Hopefully staff can comment here

 

[YmTheSuper]

Its actually low considering Ninjas have wisthanded blows from L1C character in the series

If they withstood attacks from Low 1-C characters then try to scale them to that (which would be an even bigger outlier) since this has no relation to the star feat.

Also they withstood which characters' blows?

Lloyd's feats

Which feat exactly? Afaik he doesn't preform any feats even remotely close to 4-C.

A lot of verse are also reliant on 1 or 2 feats that puts them to a certain lvl bc a scaling chain exist

When the feats aren't outrageously above the established scaling for the characters this applies to

Many feats of these characters harming others who are established to be on the GWs lvl of power from the beginning of the show

You can't say a feat isn't an outlier because the people that would scale to it scale to other characters. You're just relying on the same feat

 

[YmTheSuper]

A verse such as Honkai Star Rail has its characters at Star lvl over a single feat. You don't need 1 million star feats if characters are shown on the same level as someone who produced a Star feat

I'm not really familiar with Honkai but from what I can tell they have other feats that are Large Planet level and Brown Dwarf level which are pretty close to 4-C

Wu instantly vanished the dimension with a hand swipe

No he simply teleported them out of the dimension since we literally see them traveling to the dimension with a portal which means that the dimension exists in a different place from the Monastery of Spinjitzu where they returned. Nothing implies that he destroyed the dimension.

The blog does take it into account

All this scaling still relies on the exact same feat, this isn't supporting evidence.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

If they withstood attacks from Low 1-C characters then try to scale them to that (which would be an even bigger outlier) since this has no relation to the star feat.

Im not scaling that to them, Im saying 4-C feats are low bc the verse has many L1C feats

Also they withstood which characters' blows?

Garmadon, Iron Doom (Doesn't have a profile yet but he's Low 1-C)

Which feat exactly? Afaik he doesn't preform any feats even remotely close to 4-C.

Him having the GW power

When the feats aren't outrageously above the established scaling for the characters this applies to

Bc they all follow a consistant scaling chain like here? Ninjas consistanly fights on par with people comparable to their own dura, yet somehow its "an outlier" bc "they don't blow up stars outside a fight" ...

You can't say a feat isn't an outlier because the people that would scale to it scale to other characters. You're just relying on the same feat

If we take in account the established scaling chain, no its not inconsistant at all, which is you're main argument? And are we seriously using Kai using Boreal as a city block calc, the same dragon who scale to a guy who frooze a whole planet? And we have Morro feat who was done when he was at a weakened state due to Lloyd constantly fighting off his possession (which is why he's at "most 4-C")

This is exactly why using these calcs shouldn't be reliable to scale them

 

[Lloydblitzed]

No he simply teleported them out of the dimension since we literally see them traveling to the dimension with a portal which means that the dimension exists in a different place from the Monastery of Spinjitzu where they returned. Nothing implies that he destroyed the dimension.

After he got mad over the Ninjas and cites the main virtues, the dragon appears behind the door and starts knocking on it, which suggest he made them instantly

 

[YmTheSuper]

Im not scaling that to them, Im saying 4-C feats are low bc the verse has many L1C feats

God-Tiers of the verse scaling to Low 1-C has nothing to do with 4-C being an outlier for the low-tiers/mid-tiers of the verse. I asked basically the same question yesterday about Bleach and I got this response from a staff member.

Garmadon, Iron Doom (Doesn't have a profile yet but he's Low 1-C)

1. Was the Iron Doom being Low 1-C ever accepted
2. Garmadon's scaling to Low 1-C is already iffy since the only reason for him scaling to that is because of him saying his powers are the only ones capable of battling back The Oni (the justification mentions that he could battle the entier oni army which isn't stated) and because the oni would eventually cover the realms in darkness (the justification mentions that they would destroy all the realms which isn't true, we literally see in both the book that wu is reading and in the series that the so called "destruction" of the realms is covering them in darkness which obviously isn't a Low 1-C feat). Also you can't say that the ninja are 4-C because they tanked Low 1-C attacks, if they tanked such attacks they would be Low 1-C (which is again a massive outlier)

Him having the GW power

We are just going in circles. I asked you to state a feat that is remotely close to the Star creation feat and Dimension feat in term of scaling and you mention Lloyd having the power of the Golden Weapons which relies on the star creation feat being 4-C. You're just saying a feat isn't an outlier because a character has the power of the objects that preformed the feat (he doesn't have any other feat remotely close to 4-C that can be used to scale him other than the Dimension Creation feat)

Bc they all follow a consistant scaling chain like here? Ninjas consistanly fights on par with people comparable to their own dura, yet somehow its "an outlier" bc "they don't blow up stars outside a fight" ...

That's not my argument...
Imagine a verse where we have a group of characters consistently scaling to tiers around city level and many feats on that level with no feats that would scale much higher than that then suddenly a weapon in that verse destroys a star and this group of characters (the same versions) survive blasts from that weapon and the characters fight many characters that would scale to them. No imagine that even after this event basically no other feat that appears in hundreds of episodes even comes remotely close to it and the scale of feats return to city level. Would you say this isn't an outlier because they fight characters equal to them and because
there is a scaling chain that originated from that feat? Obviously not as this would be a textbook outlier.

If we take in account the established scaling chain, no its not inconsistant at all, which is you're main argument? And are we seriously using Kai using Boreal as a city block calc, the same dragon who scale to a guy who frooze a whole planet?

1. We have no reason to scale boreal to Zane, he is simply a dragon he created
2. Creating an eternal winter in a planet is very different from freezing a planet. Also freezing a planet isn't as impressive as you think, it's only impressive if the entire atmosphere of the planet is frozen or if the planet is frozen to its core as shown here (Also I'm pretty sure that the planet in the realm of Ninjago is smaller than earth and since the Neverrealm is a realm parallel to Ninjago its main planet should have the same size)

 

[YmTheSuper]

After he got mad over the Ninjas and cites the main virtues, the dragon appears behind the door and starts knocking on it, which suggest he made them instantly

We see that Wu says "I instructed them to go into the yard and meditate on the Six Fundamental Virtues of Spinjitzu, and instead they demolished my wall!" which implies that he started teaching them the virtues before the episode and could have been planning to teach them through the dimension he created due to their behavior since the ninja always act irresponsibly and he was telling them to meditate for a reason. So yes while Wu getting angry and then the dragon taking him to the dimension he created is supporting that he created the dimension right then there isn't really conclusive evidence for that especially since the feat is going to be used to scale every character in the verse.

 

[AigerTheKing]

We see that Wu says "I instructed them to go into the yard and meditate on the Six Fundamental Virtues of Spinjitzu, and instead they demolished my wall!" which implies that he started teaching them the virtues before the episode and could have been planning to teach them through the dimension he created due to their behavior since the ninja always act irresponsibly and he was telling them to meditate for a reason. So yes while Wu getting angry and then the dragon taking him to the dimension he created is supporting that he created the dimension right then there isn't really conclusive evidence for that especially since the feat is going to be used to scale every character in the verse.

He created the dimension because the Ninjas were not listening to him, not that he already planned to do it beforehand

God-Tiers of the verse scaling to Low 1-C has nothing to do with 4-C being an outlier for the low-tiers/mid-tiers of the verse. I asked basically the same question yesterday about Bleach and I got this response from a staff member.

1. Was the Iron Doom being Low 1-C ever accepted

Yes, and it also scales to the already accepted cosmology anyways

2. Garmadon's scaling to Low 1-C is already iffy since the only reason for him scaling to that is because of him saying his powers are the only ones capable of battling back The Oni (the justification mentions that he could battle the entier oni army which isn't stated)

"The Darkness" refers to the Onis

and because the oni would eventually cover the realms in darkness (the justification mentions that they would destroy all the realms which isn't true, we literally see in both the book that wu is reading and in the series that the so called "destruction" of the realms is covering them in darkness which obviously isn't a Low 1-C feat).

No, they will obliderate all of Creation, which would logically include the Realms of Creation (aka the 16 Realms)

That's not my argument...
Imagine a verse where we have a group of characters consistently scaling to tiers around city level and many feats on that level with no feats that would scale much higher than that then suddenly a weapon in that verse destroys a star and this group of characters (the same versions) survive blasts from that weapon and the characters fight many characters that would scale to them.

The difference is that these Ninjas were already established to the Star level of power at the beginning of the show after gaining access to their EP, and

No imagine that even after this event basically no other feat that appears in hundreds of episodes even comes remotely close to it and the scale of feats return to city level. Would you say this isn't an outlier because they fight characters equal to them and because
there is a scaling chain that originated from that feat? Obviously not as this would be a textbook outlier.

You're basically using "low level" downplaying calcs produced by characters that consistanly supports a set chain, which doesn't really works here. I also find it wrong to use these calcs because Wu rarely use his Creation powers throughout the show (except when he does Spinjitzu). Wu also fought a guy in a Dream World who could do this. I'd also like to point out the Ninjas constanly grows in power overtime, so it wouldn't make sense for them to somehow become "weaker". I really feel like this rule would apply here

The attack potency depends on the energy output of a single attack, not the area of effect of the attack.

As such it isn't proof of a low attack potency, if a character's attacks only cause a small amount of destruction.

because using your logic, I can downplay a lot of verses because their standard attacks doesn't reach a certain lvl of power

Not only that, but why should we use these feats when the Ninjas harming those scaling to the Star feats are far more consistant than the city feats, especially Zane simply creating a big wall calc

1. We have no reason to scale boreal to Zane, he is simply a dragon he created

Boreal was powered by Zane's ice power

2. Creating an eternal winter in a planet is very different from freezing a planet. Also freezing a planet isn't as impressive as you think, it's only impressive if the entire atmosphere of the planet is frozen or if the planet is frozen to its core as shown here (Also I'm pretty sure that the planet in the realm of Ninjago is smaller than earth and since the Neverrealm is a realm parallel to Ninjago its main planet should have the same size)

That's still way beyond the tier 8/7 that's being proposed

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

its doesnt need to. we already have direct statements saying almost no one could handle the power, if samukai and pre realm of madness couldnt, then the ninja cant.

Already addressed. Four arms is a requirement for wielding all 4 weapons too. I don't see Ninjas having more than two hands.

no you just needed to be powerful enough to hold them.

No.

samukai had 4 but was killed cuz he wasnt strong enough

This does not contradict anything we say.

the overlord didnt have 4 hands but was strong enough to hold them

Overlord held Golden Armor, not Golden Weapons.

if garmadon himself gets weakned by the MW, then why would cole's "feat" even be usable? hes nowhere near as strong as garmadon. This is just a case of PIS

Garmadon is not weakened by just holding it, he is weakened by using it for RW... I don't see why we would dismiss it as PIS.

We'd have the pilot ninja scaling to a feat that happened in season two scaling from a guy who was the literal only one said to be able to handle said power? Also if garmadon needed four arms (confirmed here) to scale to the weapons, why are we scaling to people without it?

Kai scales due to fighting Garmadon, not holding 4 GWs.
Cole scales due to holding MW, not GWs.

this verse's scaling is very weird

It's actually pretty solid when you don't try to nitpick.

the feat is going to be used to scale every character in the verse.

I mean, is it our fault that 97% of the verse scales to base Ninjas?

 

[Minaaaa]

All I'm saying is, it's weird to scale the entire verse to the GW feat considering it took place after all of that and scaling off of a guy who was one of like two people who was stated to be able to handle all of them at once (already addressed the four arms thing after doing research)

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

All I'm saying is, it's weird to scale the entire verse to the GW feat considering it took place after all of that

All of GWs related feats mostly happened in S1-S2...

and scaling off of a guy who was one of like two people who was stated to be able to handle all of them at once

I mean, ask Tommy & Hagemans why they didn't make Garmadon all-powerful compared to the Ninjas in terms of physicals, not me

 

[Minaaaa]

All of GWs related feats mostly happened in S1-S2...

Im saying that the other feats took place before the star feat

I mean, ask Tommy & Hagemans why they didn't make Garmadon all-powerful compared to the Ninjas in terms of physicals, not me

Plot

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Im saying that the other feats took place before the star feat

Not like the GWs togheter never produced an AP feat beyond the end of Pilots and S2 anyways

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