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Charmeleon and Pupitar are both 1st stage Pokemon! Charmander and Larvitar are Basic Stage and Charizard and Tyranitar are 2nd stage.Calaca Vs said:
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Natsu Dragneel vs. Charizard (This Time, They're Really On Fire!) (Voting Completed)
- Thread starter Starter_Pack
- Start date
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Call them whatever you like. Doesn't change the fact that Charmeleon is Low 7-B.
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He's using card terminology.
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- Thread starter
- #124
Bump.
By the way, I'm gonna switch it to Base Charizard soon if everyone is in agreement with Mega Pokemon being High 7-A.
By the way, I'm gonna switch it to Base Charizard soon if everyone is in agreement with Mega Pokemon being High 7-A.
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- Thread starter
- #125
The High 7-A upgrade went through, so every vote so far has become null and void, and I'm exchanging Mega Charizard for Base. Now, proceed from there.
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I want to vote Natsu but I can't adequately explain why so I'm going to hold off on voting until someone who can explain it better then I can. So for reasons to be given below.
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reeeeeee fine
AP:
So, it's Natsu who solidly overpowered Etherios Mard Geer who is stronger than Base Mard Geer who is superior to 578 megatons vs Charizard who is undamaged by 326 megatons and is superior to 531 megatons. So, they start off pretty comparable. Then, Natsu's FDS means he gets stronger when eating fire and this is especially true when the fire comes from a strong person. So eating Charizard's fire would make him stronger. There's also Dragon Slayer's Magic buff against Dragons. Before anyone says anything, Yes, I know that Charizard is Fire/Flying, not Dragon. However, that doesn't matter. What matters is if the opponent is considered a dragon/bears resemblance to one which is what Charizard would look like to Natsu. The Dragon Slayer Magic buff let's Low 7-B+ characters harm characters comparable to 7-A+ character.(No, it's not an outlier or PIS, it's directly stated that happened due to the Dragon Slayer magic.) So, Natsu would have a solid AP advantage.
Powers and Abilities:
Since Natsu resists fire, Charizard's fire attacks aren't going to have any effect on him and will just be eaten for amps. Natsu can probably eat the lightning off the thunder punch too and that would let him use lightning attacks as well which is what Charizard's weak to. Charizard's also resistant to fire and would be pretty alright with Natsu's fire too. Charizard's Blaze is also pretty much a non factor, since it raises the power of it's fire attacks so Natsu would just eat those and get even stronger. Because there's a misconception about this I've seen sometimes, Natsu is not rendered powerless without his flames. Not only does his regular fists still hit around the same level of strength, but he's adapted to fighting his opponents that his fire doesn't work against by doing other things like using his flames behind his fists to use as propulsion for his fist to hit the opponent without the fire connecting. Charizard still has his other moves to fall back on like his Mega kicks/punchs, Wing attacks, Shadow Claw, etc.
Skill/Experience:
Natsu's fought opponents that are hundreds of years old by this point. He's been trained for most of childhood by Igneel who's also hundreds of years old. He's also skilled enough to fight two people for a few minutes and then memorize their fighting styles and the patterns that they make when they move. In comparison, Charizard has more of a general species profile than a specific individual with feats. Generally, most pokemon are trained to and fight for most of their lives with Charizards being known for seeking out challenges.
Weaknesses:
Natsu can't eat his own flames. Charizard's are also known to be proud and overconfident. Charizard will instantly die if it's tail flame is put out.
Conclusion:
I'm going to say Natsu takes it for these reasons. The fire attacks will be no selled so it's mainly going to be a CQC battle. You could argue that Charizard could stick to the air and attack him with Dragon Breath which isn't fire, but I disagree that a Charizard would try winning with a strategy like that. It would mean it doesn't think it can take a human in close quarters and I feel like they're too prideful for that. I mean, they even fight legendaries who vastly overpower and outskill them. So, I think Natsu would beat Char via amp from the first few fire attacks and DS magic amp which should still apply with the moves even if the fire directly doesn't connect.
AP:
So, it's Natsu who solidly overpowered Etherios Mard Geer who is stronger than Base Mard Geer who is superior to 578 megatons vs Charizard who is undamaged by 326 megatons and is superior to 531 megatons. So, they start off pretty comparable. Then, Natsu's FDS means he gets stronger when eating fire and this is especially true when the fire comes from a strong person. So eating Charizard's fire would make him stronger. There's also Dragon Slayer's Magic buff against Dragons. Before anyone says anything, Yes, I know that Charizard is Fire/Flying, not Dragon. However, that doesn't matter. What matters is if the opponent is considered a dragon/bears resemblance to one which is what Charizard would look like to Natsu. The Dragon Slayer Magic buff let's Low 7-B+ characters harm characters comparable to 7-A+ character.(No, it's not an outlier or PIS, it's directly stated that happened due to the Dragon Slayer magic.) So, Natsu would have a solid AP advantage.
Powers and Abilities:
Since Natsu resists fire, Charizard's fire attacks aren't going to have any effect on him and will just be eaten for amps. Natsu can probably eat the lightning off the thunder punch too and that would let him use lightning attacks as well which is what Charizard's weak to. Charizard's also resistant to fire and would be pretty alright with Natsu's fire too. Charizard's Blaze is also pretty much a non factor, since it raises the power of it's fire attacks so Natsu would just eat those and get even stronger. Because there's a misconception about this I've seen sometimes, Natsu is not rendered powerless without his flames. Not only does his regular fists still hit around the same level of strength, but he's adapted to fighting his opponents that his fire doesn't work against by doing other things like using his flames behind his fists to use as propulsion for his fist to hit the opponent without the fire connecting. Charizard still has his other moves to fall back on like his Mega kicks/punchs, Wing attacks, Shadow Claw, etc.
Skill/Experience:
Natsu's fought opponents that are hundreds of years old by this point. He's been trained for most of childhood by Igneel who's also hundreds of years old. He's also skilled enough to fight two people for a few minutes and then memorize their fighting styles and the patterns that they make when they move. In comparison, Charizard has more of a general species profile than a specific individual with feats. Generally, most pokemon are trained to and fight for most of their lives with Charizards being known for seeking out challenges.
Weaknesses:
Natsu can't eat his own flames. Charizard's are also known to be proud and overconfident. Charizard will instantly die if it's tail flame is put out.
Conclusion:
I'm going to say Natsu takes it for these reasons. The fire attacks will be no selled so it's mainly going to be a CQC battle. You could argue that Charizard could stick to the air and attack him with Dragon Breath which isn't fire, but I disagree that a Charizard would try winning with a strategy like that. It would mean it doesn't think it can take a human in close quarters and I feel like they're too prideful for that. I mean, they even fight legendaries who vastly overpower and outskill them. So, I think Natsu would beat Char via amp from the first few fire attacks and DS magic amp which should still apply with the moves even if the fire directly doesn't connect.
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Natsu FRA
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It was agreed that Charizard isn't considered Dragon and shouldn't be weak against DSM in the previous thread. IIRC FT World have Wyverns in Tenro which shares great simmilarities with dragons and aren't considered dragons.
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Yeah, but in both that Cobra vs Berserker and the thread where we added the whole DSM does more damage to dragon things, it was agreed on that it just has to look like a dragon. The Wyverns in Fairy Tail have their arms and their wings be connected/one thing, while the dragons have the wings be offshoots from the back and have seperate arms. This is what makes Charizard look like a dragon. So a Pokemon like Aerodactyl wouldn't be considered a dragon to DSM.
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Natsu FRA. The Wyverns appeared in the Oracion Seis arc, they were created via Pict Magic. A Blizzardvern appears on Mt Hakobe.
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Even if we ignore the DSM dura neg in Dragon's post, they have similar AP with Natsu amping to Charizard's level if it is stronger. Natsu would still have the advantage considering his cqc feats are better and he doesn't have a glaring weakness like Charizard does, something that if the oppurtunity presents itself, he will take despite his lack of knowledge on it. Natsu for Dragon's reasons.
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Damn, Kudos Dragon
Natsu FRA
Natsu FRA
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Jin Kisaragi for reason above.
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More like Assassin (Fate/stay night) if you're a dub person
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You know the one form of Charizard that could beat Natsu in any of Natsu's Forms? Hyper Nazi Charizard!
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That's one hell of an assumption tho.
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With the best example of something furthest apart from a dragon that DSM has worked on, the Dorma Anim, it was just a mecha that was called and shaped like a dragon. So I feel like Charizard, who is similar enough, would also fit these qualifications. This is an assumption, true, but it is one based on what has been presented so far.
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I don't remember the Dorma Anim being susceptible to DSM just because it looks like a Dragon.
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And because they called it one. This was right after they explained that it was a robot made out of magic canceler alloy.
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I don't see the similarity tho
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Between Charizard and Dragons or Dorma Anim and Charizard?
I'm saying something like Dorma Anim was close enough to Dragons so Charizard should be in that range as well.
I'm saying something like Dorma Anim was close enough to Dragons so Charizard should be in that range as well.
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I'm talking that there's no evidence that the Dorma Anim is weak against DSM and you haven't posted the evidence. Just because it seems like one doesn't mean it is like one.
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Because that's what happens in the fight? https://*********.com/Manga/Fairy-Tail/Fairy-Tail---190?id=307620
Every time they hit it, they do serious damage and it's said that it's because of their DSM.
Every time they hit it, they do serious damage and it's said that it's because of their DSM.
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I could assumed that the Dorma Anim's Armor is made of dragon's scales and that should be as valid as your argument. And it'd make much more sense.
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But Dragons don't exist on Edolas. Porlusica is a human on Edolas but is the Dragon Grandeeny on Earthland. Also, if you had dragon scales, which resist magic, then why would you also use an alloy that cancels out magic? That would be redundant.
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Natsu FRA
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I still disagree with Natsu's feat against Sting being used as its heavily inconsistent with his other skill feats. For example Monkey D Luffy is able to do the same thing as Natsu but he's far more consistent with it. Natsu does it once and never does it again. It's not really a skill feat that should be used for Natsu and we've gone over this in the past.
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How many feats of it does Luffy have? That was more supporting evidence anyways.
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He's done it with Crocodile, Megallan, Enel, and a few other One Piece Antagonists. Mostly from his Pre Time skip version much like Zoro where his shown feats as better than his feats after the time skip.
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What's inconsistent about being a superior fighter to ur opponent?
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Why would DSM be effective against something that isn't a Dragon but it looks like one? Considering there's no dragons in Edolas the Dorma Anim shouldn't be prepared against DSM at all. There's why the DSM should be able to ignore that power.
Take for example the martians in War of the Worlds. They were prepared for Mars' enviroment and diseases but the flu killed them because their bodies weren't prepared for such a thing.
Take for example the martians in War of the Worlds. They were prepared for Mars' enviroment and diseases but the flu killed them because their bodies weren't prepared for such a thing.
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@Rin
Natsu is a very skilled fighter, I don't see why that is so hard to comprehend, how is it inconsistent at all, Natsu has never been shown to be dumb in a fight, so why is it weird that he he can do things, is it because he doesn't tell the opponent everything he sees them do, he dodged Mard Geers Unpredictable Thorns on his first time seeing them, which according to Mard Geer is the first time that has happened, he also finessed the Alavarrz Soldiers with skill, as well as his team coordination against Hades, Dorma Amin, and others, Natsu has been shown to be a masterfully skilled fighter, so stop downplaying that he can read his opponents, the author told us that so that we know how knowledgeable he is, it shouldn't be ignored because you feel like he's an idiot
Natsu is a very skilled fighter, I don't see why that is so hard to comprehend, how is it inconsistent at all, Natsu has never been shown to be dumb in a fight, so why is it weird that he he can do things, is it because he doesn't tell the opponent everything he sees them do, he dodged Mard Geers Unpredictable Thorns on his first time seeing them, which according to Mard Geer is the first time that has happened, he also finessed the Alavarrz Soldiers with skill, as well as his team coordination against Hades, Dorma Amin, and others, Natsu has been shown to be a masterfully skilled fighter, so stop downplaying that he can read his opponents, the author told us that so that we know how knowledgeable he is, it shouldn't be ignored because you feel like he's an idiot
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No, I'm saying the resemblance to a dragon is all it takes for DSM to be effective.Calaca Vs said:
What do you mean by this? DSM is why their attacks did more damage than usual.
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No, that's the assumption you made. "They are DS so they can damage a Dragon ROBOT".
IDK why do I care. This is the same BS that makes FT infamous.
IDK why do I care. This is the same BS that makes FT infamous.
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@Demon
First things first, calm down your accusations. It makes you look both childish and extremely bias. You tend to burst out like this whenever it comes to FT threads in general and it's rather repetitive.
Natsu is a very skilled fighter, I don't see why that is so hard to comprehend, how is it inconsistent at all, Natsu has never been shown to be dumb in a fight, so why is it weird that he he can do things, is it because he doesn't tell the opponent everything he sees them do, he dodged Mard Geers Unpredictable Thorns on his first time seeing them. which according to Mard Geer is the first time that has happened.
I never said Natsu wasn't skilled, what I'm addressing is that Natsu's feat against Sting shouldn't be used. He's never been shown to memorize his opponents fighting skills and be able to counter them again after that fight. Against Mard Geer his attacks aren't unavoidable to begin with. All his attacks are just thorn based projectiles, of course Natsu would be able to avoid them with his Enhanced Senses via Dragon Slayer abilities and his Extra Sensory Preparation. While Natsu is a skilled Brawler he isn't as impressive as you might think. As for the majority of his fights they include him launching fire enhanced Hay Markers and such. And I don't care if nobody could dodge his attacks beforehand, we've never seen him actually fight beforehand in the past and Sting was able to dodge his attacks as well. Unless you wanna say that Meliodas is more skilled than Zoro simply because he's older. Because directly after the Sting fight Natsu doesn't show skills anywhere near this level. He didn't remember and counter the fighting style of Acnologia, Zeref and various other villains.
He also finessed the Alavarrz Soldiers with skill, as well as his team coordination against Hades, Dorma Amin, and others, Natsu has been shown to be a masterfully skilled fighter, so stop downplaying that he can read his opponents, the author told us that so that we know how knowledgeable he is, it shouldn't be ignored because you feel like he's an idiot.
He didn't finess the Alavarrz Soliders via skill, most of them were taken out via AoE and they even had Natsu and Co on the ropes at some point. This isn't impressive in the slightest. Team Coordination isn't the same as your own fighting skill. So far all of your arguments don't hold up and have been debunked. Natsu has shown to be a skill brawler yes but he isn't Iron Fist or Garou. Also again, stop getting over emotional in threads just because people don't agree with you. This happens way too of with you where you get annoyed because not everyone agrees with you then you resort to the typical ad Hominem or throwing the "Ur downplaying" card which I could easily counter by saying you're wanking. But I won't because that would be petty, childish and uncalled for. If you want to debate with me then show some respect, because so far I have yet to throw an insult towards you meanwhile you've acted like this god know how many times now. You're supposed to act civil. I respect you whenever we're in a debate much like how I respect everyone I debate with so I could appreciate it if you could do the same instead of throwing tantrums and accusing others of downplay. It's this type of behavior that makes people think that FT threads and fans are bad.
First things first, calm down your accusations. It makes you look both childish and extremely bias. You tend to burst out like this whenever it comes to FT threads in general and it's rather repetitive.
Natsu is a very skilled fighter, I don't see why that is so hard to comprehend, how is it inconsistent at all, Natsu has never been shown to be dumb in a fight, so why is it weird that he he can do things, is it because he doesn't tell the opponent everything he sees them do, he dodged Mard Geers Unpredictable Thorns on his first time seeing them. which according to Mard Geer is the first time that has happened.
I never said Natsu wasn't skilled, what I'm addressing is that Natsu's feat against Sting shouldn't be used. He's never been shown to memorize his opponents fighting skills and be able to counter them again after that fight. Against Mard Geer his attacks aren't unavoidable to begin with. All his attacks are just thorn based projectiles, of course Natsu would be able to avoid them with his Enhanced Senses via Dragon Slayer abilities and his Extra Sensory Preparation. While Natsu is a skilled Brawler he isn't as impressive as you might think. As for the majority of his fights they include him launching fire enhanced Hay Markers and such. And I don't care if nobody could dodge his attacks beforehand, we've never seen him actually fight beforehand in the past and Sting was able to dodge his attacks as well. Unless you wanna say that Meliodas is more skilled than Zoro simply because he's older. Because directly after the Sting fight Natsu doesn't show skills anywhere near this level. He didn't remember and counter the fighting style of Acnologia, Zeref and various other villains.
He also finessed the Alavarrz Soldiers with skill, as well as his team coordination against Hades, Dorma Amin, and others, Natsu has been shown to be a masterfully skilled fighter, so stop downplaying that he can read his opponents, the author told us that so that we know how knowledgeable he is, it shouldn't be ignored because you feel like he's an idiot.
He didn't finess the Alavarrz Soliders via skill, most of them were taken out via AoE and they even had Natsu and Co on the ropes at some point. This isn't impressive in the slightest. Team Coordination isn't the same as your own fighting skill. So far all of your arguments don't hold up and have been debunked. Natsu has shown to be a skill brawler yes but he isn't Iron Fist or Garou. Also again, stop getting over emotional in threads just because people don't agree with you. This happens way too of with you where you get annoyed because not everyone agrees with you then you resort to the typical ad Hominem or throwing the "Ur downplaying" card which I could easily counter by saying you're wanking. But I won't because that would be petty, childish and uncalled for. If you want to debate with me then show some respect, because so far I have yet to throw an insult towards you meanwhile you've acted like this god know how many times now. You're supposed to act civil. I respect you whenever we're in a debate much like how I respect everyone I debate with so I could appreciate it if you could do the same instead of throwing tantrums and accusing others of downplay. It's this type of behavior that makes people think that FT threads and fans are bad.
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Calaca Vs said:
There's no need to be so hostile. This is literally what is said in the chapter I linked.
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Also Dragon those scans aren't the official scans. I thought I gave you the official scans for that fight no?
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Can I have them again?
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Wait, let me try and find them.
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