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Nasuverse Discussion Board (New Forum)

Phew, good thing i have blocked Tjdwo, the man is freaking obnoxious and it's getting on my nerves so much
Tho what are we debated here atm? I kinda lost with all of the long paragraphs there and there lel
 
Kisaragi_Megumi said:
Phew, good thing i have blocked Tjdwo, the man is freaking obnoxious and it's getting on my nerves so much
Tho what are we debated here atm? I kinda lost with all of the long paragraphs there and there lel
Click to expand...
Dude hop off my 🍖 I don't remember the last time I ever replied you stupid ass. Literally everytime, you talk about me even when I don't reply or talk to you. Bros obsessed😭
 
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Kisaragi_Megumi said:
Phew, good thing i have blocked Tjdwo, the man is freaking obnoxious and it's getting on my nerves so much
Tho what are we debated here atm? I kinda lost with all of the long paragraphs there and there lel
Click to expand...
archetype earth >= ryougi shiki
there's quite a bit of word of god and statements and such to imply this
 
Violatas said:
^

That's Ryougi herself, and she had no idea how she ended up in EXTRA.
Dunno why the sass
Click to expand...
I didn't say it wasn't Ryougi. I said her "magically appearing" in another parallel world isn't something that happened only in melty blood. It happened to her in Extra as well and we know that Extra Shiki is not Void Shiki
 
Tdjwo said:
I didn't say it wasn't Ryougi. I said her "magically appearing" in another parallel world isn't something that happened only in melty blood. It happened to her in Extra as well and we know that Extra Shiki is not Void Shiki
Click to expand...
I think you're confused. We know Void herself doesn't fight in Melty; no one even says otherwise.

AE was clearly speaking to Void through Ryougi though
 
And in terms of how the fight prolly ended: Ryougi maybe became Void after the screen faded to black (and who wins at that point depends on what you buy) or if you don't think that, got stomped by AE since Ryougi doesn't have a chance.
 
Violatas said:
I think you're confused. We know Void herself doesn't fight in Melty; no one even says otherwise.

AE was clearly speaking to Void through Ryougi though
Click to expand...
What BasedNeco is implying is that Arc defeated Void based on her victory quote, isn't it? That's why I'm saying it doesn't make sense since Arc never fought Void in the first place. She only fought Shiki Ryougi.
 
Tdjwo said:
What BasedNeco is implying is that Arc defeated Void based on her victory quote, isn't it? That's why I'm saying it doesn't make sense since Arc never fought Void in the first place. She only fought Shiki Ryougi.
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"void" compels shiki to come to the universe of mb to find arcueid. from then on arcueid is only talking to void ( which a normal being without any root ****** wouldnt be aware of without an outside source to begin with.) Arcueid also says something about both of them choosing the wrong time to wake up, implying that shiki's normal personality was not fighting ryougi
 
Tdjwo said:
What BasedNeco is implying is that Arc defeated Void based on her victory quote, isn't it? That's why I'm saying it doesn't make sense since Arc never fought Void in the first place. She only fought Shiki Ryougi.
Click to expand...
The victory quote was noted to be a minor thing, and it was just in regards to who prolly won the fight since we don't see it on screen.

Its debatable whether or not Void comes out when Ryougi is about to fight AE since Ryougi herself obviously doesn't have a chance, and Void wouldn't have sent Ryougi to just die like that.
This is whole convo is just saying that it was Void that AE was speaking to.
Who's stronger is more debatable than people think I'd say, but that's not really why I even entered this convo. This entire time I've just been saying that the Ryougi in Melty is clearly meant to be KNK Ryougi, and that Archetype was so clearly speaking to Void.
 
Tdjwo said:
Void Shiki>>>>>>>>>>>>Outer Gods/Abigail>~MHXX>ORT>Ultimate Ones>Archetype Arc
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Idk why mhxx is above ultimate ones, she only fights foreigners not outer Gods.

Why is archetype earth below ultimate ones? Base arc unmake the contract altrouge made to turn wallachia into phenomenon and allow for him to reincarnate through the akashic records.

Outer gods have not been shown to do anything like that, the akashic records encompasses everything including their realms. Archetype earth is an ultimate one, I still don't know why she's below what she is.
BasedNecoScaler69 said:
she's literally talking to shiki when making those statements and addressing "her" directly.
Click to expand...
This doesn't matter at all, you just used 8 paragraphs of vague evidence that's very questionable. Against a character that's omniscient and directly posits herself as omnipotent.
BasedNecoScaler69 said:
Also apparently true ancestors are based on the vampire hunter D series, with the main villian, True Ancestor, being able to manipulate the akashic records
Click to expand...
Where does this come from?
BasedNecoScaler69 said:
she's literally talking to shiki when making those statements and addressing "her" directly.
Click to expand...
How does this matter?
Tdjwo said:
Just because she knows who Void is, doesn't mean she's fighting or interacting with Void. It's obvious Arc is well versed on the Akashic records. Doesn't mean she is as powerful as it.
Click to expand...
Idk since when was talking to void implies she's fighting her, I guess there's a new cancer in the nasuverse scaling community. The idea that "arc is above void shiki, because she knows her".
BasedNecoScaler69 said:
in official media after knk, void shiki wears a kimono with a flower pattern, while ryougi wears the red jacket and stuff
Click to expand...
Hello? Base shiki wore a kimono to fight araya? Just because after knk she didn't wear a similar kimono doesn't mean she won't always wear it like she did against Araya.
BasedNecoScaler69 said:
also, why would arcueid be talking about wakin up , and all encompassing order and going back to emptiness if she ISNT talking about void?
Click to expand...
Why does her saying all of that validate the statements? Why would anyone take her statements as truth apt if there's literally no feats corresponding to that.

Void shiki is omniscient and apathetic, she has no reason to lie on purpose and if she's not lying what she is saying is true about being omnipotent and having the capacity "to do anything".

Also about "all creation dancing to the tune of her magic", Archetype is part of creation she falls under that.
BasedNecoScaler69 said:
also thats just wrong, void shiki appears in shiki's last arc, with the same outfit she wears in fgo. shiki and void shiki's nps in fgo are based on shiki's arc drive and last arc respectively.
Click to expand...
Have you ever seen void shiki use a sword? That's literally just self suggestion base shiki, not void shiki.
 
BasedNecoScaler69 said:
there's literally no evidence that suggests this
Click to expand...
You're acting like there's evidence suggesting she's void shiki.
Violatas said:
Its debatable whether or not Void comes out when Ryougi is about to fight AE since Ryougi herself obviously doesn't have a chance, and Void wouldn't have sent Ryougi to just die like that.
Click to expand...
Why would she care about ryougi dying?
BasedNecoScaler69 said:
"void" compels shiki to come to the universe of mb to find arcueid. from then on arcueid is only talking to void ( which a normal being without any root ***** wouldnt be aware of without an outside source to begin with.) Arcueid also says something about both of them choosing the wrong time to wake up, implying that shiki's normal personality was not fighting ryougi
Click to expand...
When did void compel shiki to come to the mb universe, she made it clear she doesn't care about anything?
 
Theoretical said:
When did void compel shiki to come to the mb universe, she made it clear she doesn't care about anything?
Click to expand...
Why would she do it now too, void shiki knows everything that happens, will happen, has happened. If she wanted to shiki to go to the mb universe, she would've done it a long time ago. She would knew archetype was gonna be there at that time. She wouldn't make it clear during the knk events that doesn't care about anything, if she knew she'd eventually want base ryougi to meet archetype earth at that time.
 
Theoretical said:
Why is archetype earth below ultimate ones? Base arc unmake the contract altrouge made to turn wallachia into phenomenon and allow for him to reincarnate through the akashic records.
Click to expand...
Archetype: Earth wouldn't have her many layers of advantage vs being that are not of this Earth like actual Types. She prtobably forever is gonna be Archetype of Earth, but for Earth to ever reaach the "one end" that a Type is is basically impossible, literally goes against the policies of how PHH is conducted.

Theoretical said:
Outer gods have not been shown to do anything like that, the akashic records encompasses everything including their realms. Archetype earth is an ultimate one, I still don't know why she's below what she is.
Click to expand...
Ultimate One, but not a Type. The conclusion and goal has not been reached.
And even if we know that there is definitely at least one thing donig the recording that did so for the ENTIRE universe and beyond, Even Void, in the "connecting to "Root"" the character with the most things to be said, can only "kill the World" be using the system of layers, and in actuality "end the old and build a new" but with a hack about what she can change. Same Ryougi couldn't see anything at all in Arcs body, and she has killed things like "futures" that had become targetable because they were tethered.

Hello? Base shiki wore a kimono to fight araya? Just because after knk she didn't wear a similar kimono doesn't mean she won't always wear it like she did against Araya.
Click to expand...
I don't think no one is saying that it's required and necessary, but that it's the thing that make sense.
Shiki with her Kunesada Koji and the kimono, white to pink and floral like, embodied the very essence of swordman and the very essence of her way of being, as the kimono represents the flowrs in the inner sea of the planet, a flower bed of the possibilies and future.

She can, but in the case of someone like Shiki that doing so is LITERALLY making her stronger, there wouldn't seem the most obvious.

Void shiki is omniscient and apathetic, she has no reason to lie on purpose and if she's not lying what she is saying is true about being omnipotent and having the capacity "to do anything".
Click to expand...
Yeah, she can basically see anything, but there's two things - She can only see it from her poitn of view and she, herself, doesn't have any type of scale to jude them. She has to use the "language" one of the other personalities had learned, for example. Even if she's not lying, she's not necessarily correct.

Also about "all creation dancing to the tune of her magic", Archetype is part of creation she falls under that.
Click to expand...
Shiki still has some struggles, and still fight and etc, so she has to do it directly some times.
But it's definitely very very feasible for one to think she could easily do it indirectly, controlling everyone like puppers, a la Unconsconsciouss.
But doing it like so would probably be seen as "too boring and demanding".
 
Theoretical said:
You're acting like there's evidence suggesting she's void shiki.
Click to expand...

I can't help but find it funny, because "Void Shiki" can only talk using Shiki's mind.
But, that is what makes the discussion so ????????

Have they ever not acted as one when it was important?
It's like discussin "who someone" is because she decided to get water one day, but the next ond drank milk.
 
—The flesh, we may say, becomes the basis of the intellect. It does not itself "have" an intellect. The flesh simply "is." But the flesh does have a personality, a will, of a kind. It grows up as one with, and gives birth to, the intellect. That - is what I am.

Ah, he said. He'd heard it somewhere before, hadn't he. That the human being is composed of three different things. Mind and soul, to which is added the fleshly body. Supposing, then, that the mind resides in the brain, and the soul in the body. That makes her - what? Shiki's essence. Her true character. A personality, "the body", with nothing of Shiki's heart.

—They were my creations. Each of them an "I" of the same order as myself. Or, no; since they each possessed a will, an inclination of their own, you could say they were of a higher order than myself. Even if they were different personalities, their lines of thought were one in that they were both essentially the good and evil within "Ryougi Shiki." They originated from me, and concluded with me. Had they not, their differing inclinations should never have been able to coexist.
Click to expand...
—The flesh, we may say, becomes the basis of the intellect. It does not itself "have" an intellect. The flesh simply "is." But the flesh does have a personality, a will, of a kind. It grows up as one with, and gives birth to, the intellect. That - is what I am.

—They were my creations. Each of them an "I" of the same order as myself. Or, no; since they each possessed a will, an inclination of their own, you could say they were of a higher order than myself. Even if they were different personalities, their lines of thought were one in that they were both essentially the good and evil within "Ryougi Shiki." They originated from me, and concluded with me. Had they not, their differing inclinations should never have been able to coexist.
Click to expand...

About Will of Heavens and if beingused to define Void Shiki, instead of "Ryougi Shiki"
 
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Theoretical said:
Hello? Base shiki wore a kimono to fight araya? Just because after knk she didn't wear a similar kimono doesn't mean she won't always wear it like she did against Araya.
Click to expand...
The kimono she wore is pink, with no pattern, the kimono void shiki wears in all media is the exact same,
Theoretical said:
You're acting like there's evidence suggesting she's void shiki.
Click to expand...
there is if you read
Theoretical said:
Why would she care about ryougi dying?
Click to expand...
Shiki sustains her own existence, as she's also shiki.
Theoretical said:
When did void compel shiki to come to the mb universe, she made it clear she doesn't care about anything?
Click to expand...
maybe uhh, read the post

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1039008145495838740/1039023816325738557/1.png
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1039008145495838740/1039023815965016154/7.png
the "I" here is especially important. Void is generally referred to as "Ryougi Shiki" with quotation marks.
Theoretical said:
Why does her saying all of that validate the statements? Why would anyone take her statements as truth apt if there's literally no feats corresponding to that.
Click to expand...
nasu's own wog puts arcueid at her strongest above void.

Theoretical said:
Also about "all creation dancing to the tune of her magic", Archetype is part of creation she falls under that.
Click to expand...
Arcueid was probably not even a complete thought in nasu's mind when knk was written
Theoretical said:
Have you ever seen void shiki use a sword? That's literally just self suggestion base shiki, not void shiki.
Click to expand...
Saber shiki in fgo. saber shiki's name uses the same quotation marks.

ill respond to the rest later
 
The spoiler for Samurai Remnant has dropped out
384263461_224927243910291_5624154414939630708_n.jpg

"A Servant without a Master. True Name: Kiso no Yoshinaka. A warrior in white raising opposition against Rider Minamoto no Raikou/Ushi Gozen.

Immediately after his summon, he recognized Rider's evil oni presence and relentlessly jumped in to purge it. Although he was unaware of the connection, both of them are related to the extended Minamoto clan.

His incarnation in this game's story, he can't see a warrior lady eye-to-eye, but warrior ladies had a major presence in his life. His dear wife was none other than Tomoe Gozen, the 3rd Heroic Spirit Swordmaster fighting in the Seven Duels of the Heroic Spirit Swordmasters.

Tomoe Gozen was a woman born with the supernatural powers of a non-human species... an oni. Perhaps his reason to pursue to Rider was less about his insticts as a fellow Genji warrior and more for the purpose of better understanding non-humans."
F6-6XKhXkAAfrv3
F6-6XiRWIAARek7

"One of Fate/Samurai Remnant's protagonists. True Name: Yamato Takeru. Class: Saber. Iori's buddy.

A combat genius. Far beyond human limitations. Their battle prowess trumps monstrous yokai, exterminates human armies, and sometimes challenges deities in single combat. Even Iori, who lived in times of war, sees them as a warrior someone beyond reach.

Their fascination with rice is because they interpret agriculture as a laudable symbol of peace. Takeru derives joy from the existence of delicious rice and possibly also feels the metaphorical presence of their dearly beloved Otachibanahime.

At first, they regarded Iori as a powerless weakling and made it clear that they needed no Master's help... Play the game's story mode to find out how their shared days of conflict changed their opinion of Iori.

Their trump card is an always concealed Noble Phantasm, in a style following the example of Saber Arthuria in the original Fate/stay night. Arthuria hid her blade with the wind of her Invisible Air Noble Phantasm, while Takeru hides their blade with the water of their Suijin Noble Phantasm and adds an extra layer of concealment by morphing it into a serpentine shape.

On an unrelated note, most people who meet Takeru assume they're a woman, and since Takeru never corrects them on that, their gender is never commented on in this game."
F6-6WyHXwAAti33

"The Servant summoned by Tsuchimikado Yasuhiro. His Class is Caster but he calls himself Recorder instead. True Name: Hieda no Are.

A very peculiar Servant, marked by his nitpicky, unreasonable, and obstinate impression. Since he's not an author, he's very insistent that his writings should be called "records" rather than "literature". For that reason, his wish for the Waxing Moon Ritual is that all records in the world are perfectly preserved in their most accurate form. Because that would mean confirming that Hieda no Are truly existed. (Note: "accurate" here means what Are personally considers accurate.)

As a Caster, he cannot use advanced magecraft, and his Territory Creation and Item Construction are his weaker skills. Consider him the kind of Servant that overcomes oppositions only on the strength of his Noble Phantasm, if even that. And considering how difficult to use his Noble Phantasm is, he's overall a tool that only shines in niche situations."
 
Translations time
"The Servant summoned by Zheng Chenggong. True Name: Zhou Yu. Class: Archer.

A character plainly designed for the player to find pretty. Design-wise, the intention was to portray him as somewhat younger than the public's general image of Zhou Yu.

He's Zhou Yu's historical fact facet and his Romance of the Three Kingdoms facet melded into one, but his mind seems more grounded in the historical fact version. For that reason, he feels like his abilities associated with the Romance of the Three Kingdoms are OP powers granted to him for no discernible reason (but he doesn't reject them on any level).

He's extraordinarily compatible with his master Zheng Chenggong. The only way things could possibly be better for him is if he could drag along his original lords Sun Ce and Sun Quan.

And that's exactly what his Talent to Assist the King Skill does when used to its maximum effectiveness.

If his top-class power level wasn't enough, he can power up further with this Skill, making a figure that enemies want to avoid 1v1 combat against at all costs."
"The Servant summoned by Chiemon. True Name: Jeanne D'Arc. Class: Lancer. An Alter summon. It's normally impossible to summon an Alter of Jeanne D'Arc. Therefore, the version summoned in Fate/Samurai Remnant is a heavily distorted form.

Her mind and identity are based on the Ruler version of Jeanne D'Arc rather than on the regular Jeanne Alter.

Her Alter state comes in exchange of being unbelievably weaker than Ruler. Imagine a Jeanne with less strength of will.

The key concept is that of a saint accompanying a man who wishes for hell.

She has already discerned what Chiemon's true wish for the Waxing Moon Ritual is, and that is why she made her decision to dedicate her time in this summon exclusively to his salvation rather than to the salvation of many."
"A non-standard homunculus living for her ideals. She shares her name with a historical figure, but the question of "Who is Yui Shousetsu?" has a completely different answer in the pruned event that is Fate/Samurai Remnant.

She is an artificial life created by the sorcerer Mori Souiken. She has all the characteristics of a high-quality homunculus: a short lifespan, advanced intellect, excellent Magic Circuits, and an innocent mind. She never heard of this name, but the source of homunculus technology used to create her is the occidental Einzbern family.

She inherited Mori Souiken's idealist side and pursued her own ideal to correct a "distortion": the world's cruelty.

Throughout the game, she becomes attracted to Iori without ever noticing it. Iori's drive to live correctly as a human being reminded her of the noble dreamer Amakusa Shirou whom she heard Souiken talk so much about."
"Servant without a Master. True Name: Tamamo Aria. A dreadful and wicked fox with an easygoing demeanor.

A tail in the group popularly known as Tamamo Nine. Her soft and peaceful attitude works like a mirror. If you distrust her, she will act suspicious. If you consider her innocent, she'll be the purest entity she can. She has no will to commit atrocities, but the humans around her drive themselves crazy. In short, she's a natural-born troublemaker.

Fortunately, in this summon, she's head over heels for Iori, and Iori couldn't be more harmless when it comes to that, so there were no noticeable tumults.

By the way, her reason for being a Rider is that she is the one who stands at the top manipulating many humans. Her ability to command humans and use them as stepping stones is something she does without trying, which doesn't help with the allegations that she is another of the Ruinous Consort."
"A girl who holds Nobless Oblige at the core of her heart. The daughter of the Swedish noble and Dutch merchant Frederick Coyett.

She participates in the Waxing Moon Ritual but sees it as merely one more checkpoint in the story of her life, having no intention whatsoever of sacrificing herself or her family belongings for the rite.

However... She was born privileged. Her responsibilities as a noble are her greatest priority. If it is to accomplish her duties, she doesn't hesitate to use her life.

In the historical facts, her father Frederick would later be defeated by Zheng Chenggong. However, in the pruned timeline of Fate/Samurai Remnant... it's still possible that after the events of the story, Frederick and Chenggong fought on the same side."
"The Servant summoned by Dorothea Coyett. True Name: Kouga Saburou. Class: Assassin.

He claims himself to be the founder of what would later become the Kouga School of Ninjutsu and utilizes many strange jutsus. However, despite being the ancestor of the Kouga Mochizuki Clan, there are no legends describing Saburou as a ninja. Regardless, he can use abilities so similar to ninjutsu, and the reason for it is that he was born with multiple divine powers and accomplished the feat of developing the survival techniques necessary for traveling outside of the world.

He likes his Master Dorothea and sees his own past as a feudal lord in her.

However, he ultimately chose the path of betrayal and rampage. All so that she could evolve by overcoming him."
"A Servant without a Master. True Name: Samson. One of the two Berserkers defending Yoshiwara.

A man manifested not to kill, not to destroy, but to forgive. His wish for the Waxing Moon Ritual is to forgive someone. His mind inside the cage of Mad Enhancement can't stop thinking "I must say to my once-beloved Delilah the forgiving words I couldn't say before".

He's not mistaking Takao Dayuu for Delilah. He knows fully well they're different people. The invincible man mountain simply wants to forgive someone, even if he knows this is a meaningless act of self-satisfaction."
"The 15th Servant. Since she is the Possession type, she can be considered an incarnated Servant. The possessing Servant is a Caster. True Name: Otachibanahime.

She is Yamato Takeru's wife. The "oto" part of her name used to mean "younger person", but as the language evolved, it came to mean "younger brother", therefore, she more often calls herself Tachibanahime.

She has no direct combat abilities as a Servant and even her main Caster powers are support abilities, so it's hard to imagine her ever winning a regular Holy Grail War.

As Ogasawara Kaya, she is a cheerful, intrusive, and adorable sister who cherishes her older brother. As Ototachibanahime, she is more like a girl single-mindedly devoted to Yamato Takeru.

Their being summoned together is a miracle that will never happen again and both know that. That said, their relationship was already concluded in their lifetime, which might be the main reason why they were able to choose the option silently watching each other from behind."
 
SPOILER_1695814535646585.jpg

"A Servant without a Master. True Name: **********. Class: Ruler.

He's acting as the boss of a textile business. On the moment of his summon, he immediately figured out the value of the Waxing Moon Ritual and lost all interest. He's not planning on doing his Ruler job. You can't tell a king what to do.

He has some level of interest in Miyamoto Iori and Yamato Takeru, always showering his "vassals" with unreasonable requests."
"If the Edo Period is to be defined as the era of peace achieved through overcoming the Warring States, Chiemon is the one discarded by the era. He was blueprinted to be a character that would never work as the protagonist but still shines brighter than anyone else.

Fate/Samurai Remnant has him as an independent agent who never sides with either Iori or the masterminds.

He is one of the very few survivors of the Shimabara Rebellion and learned the basics of magecraft from Mori Souiken. His lineage as a mage lasted only one short-lived generation, but he was quite effective in combat. Either he was naturally talented or he had an unknown mage ancestor.

His wish for the Holy Grail is revealed late into the story. Wholesale salvation to the abandoned ones. Even if that salvation is pointless."
 
Kisaragi_Megumi said:
If the Edo Period is to be defined as the era of peace achieved through overcoming the Warring States, Chiemon is the one discarded by the era. He was blueprinted to be a character that would never work as the protagonist but still shines brighter than anyone else.
Click to expand...
Tiamat mama vibes in that origin.
 
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