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Nasuverse Discussion Board (New Forum)

Kisaragi_Megumi said:
SPOILER_1695814535646585.jpg

"A Servant without a Master. True Name: **********. Class: Ruler.

He's acting as the boss of a textile business. On the moment of his summon, he immediately figured out the value of the Waxing Moon Ritual and lost all interest. He's not planning on doing his Ruler job. You can't tell a king what to do.

He has some level of interest in Miyamoto Iori and Yamato Takeru, always showering his "vassals" with unreasonable requests."
"If the Edo Period is to be defined as the era of peace achieved through overcoming the Warring States, Chiemon is the one discarded by the era. He was blueprinted to be a character that would never work as the protagonist but still shines brighter than anyone else.

Fate/Samurai Remnant has him as an independent agent who never sides with either Iori or the masterminds.

He is one of the very few survivors of the Shimabara Rebellion and learned the basics of magecraft from Mori Souiken. His lineage as a mage lasted only one short-lived generation, but he was quite effective in combat. Either he was naturally talented or he had an unknown mage ancestor.

His wish for the Holy Grail is revealed late into the story. Wholesale salvation to the abandoned ones. Even if that salvation is pointless."
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Ironically, this would be the exact reason why he qualifies as a Ruler lol, since Rulers are not supposed to have any wish for the Grail
 
LehenDuo said:
Archetype: Earth wouldn't have her many layers of advantage vs being that are not of this Earth like actual Types. She prtobably forever is gonna be Archetype of Earth, but for Earth to ever reaach the "one end" that a Type is is basically impossible, literally goes against the policies of how PHH is conducted
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Her power as a type has no necessary contingency on earth, she has crimson moons powers who's practically a type.
LehenDuo said:
Ultimate One, but not a Type. The conclusion and goal has not been reached.
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There's no meaningful distinction between types and ultimate ones.
LehenDuo said:
And even if we know that there is definitely at least one thing donig the recording that did so for the ENTIRE universe and beyond, Even Void, in the "connecting to "Root"" the character with the most things to be said, can only "kill the World" be using the system of layers, and in actuality "end the old and build a new" but with a hack about what she can change. Same Ryougi couldn't see anything at all in Arcs body, and she has killed things like "futures" that had become targetable because they were tethered.
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Idk what you're talking about ngl, maybe you can clarify what you meant by this.
LehenDuo said:
Shiki with her Kunesada Koji and the kimono, white to pink and floral like, embodied the very essence of swordman and the very essence of her way of being, as the kimono represents the flowrs in the inner sea of the planet, a flower bed of the possibilies and future.

She can, but in the case of someone like Shiki that doing so is LITERALLY making her stronger, there wouldn't seem the most obvious.
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I.... Don't know what you're saying here too
LehenDuo said:
can't help but find it funny, because "Void Shiki" can only talk using Shiki's mind.
But, that is what makes the discussion so ????????

Have they ever not acted as one when it was important?
It's like discussin "who someone" is because she decided to get water one day, but the next ond drank milk.
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I.... Don't know what you're talking about again...
BasedNecoScaler69 said:
The kimono she wore is pink, with no pattern, the kimono void shiki wears in all media is the exact same
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That was not the point, I'll re-clarify this for you. Shiki has many kimomo's, void shiki appearing with the same one various times doesn't necessarily mean when we see shiki ryougi with that kimono it immediately implies it's void shiki, for all we know regular shiki has many kimomo's that could just be one of them that she can use at any time.

Even if we grant this, it doesn't justify anything.
BasedNecoScaler69 said:
there is if you read
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No.
BasedNecoScaler69 said:
the "I" here is especially important. Void is generally referred to as "Ryougi Shiki" with quotation marks.
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I really don't know what the first one statement proves, as far as knk goes regular shiki isn't aware of "Ryougi Shiki". As far as linguistics and semantics go "I" can mean anything without inherently implying "I" is "Ryougi Shiki", because the latter is referenced upon using quotations.

So idk what that justifies too, was that all?
BasedNecoScaler69 said:
nasu's own wog puts arcueid at her strongest above void.
Click to expand...
OH, same nasu who states ort is the strongest in the type moon? Arcueid recently was re-afffimed as the strongest in mahoyo and the tsukihime world currently, Ort was stated to be the strongest.

Immediately invalidates the "old interview statements". Arcueid(AE) =crimson moon, why isn't he there but she's there. I don't believe the ranking was made in order as well.

That wasn't specified.
That all?

BasedNecoScaler69 said:
Arcueid was probably not even a complete thought in nasu's mind when knk was written
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Ooo fs, it's not like they don't say she's omnipotent in fgo. Let's not talk about that right?
BasedNecoScaler69 said:
Saber shiki in fgo. saber shiki's name uses the same quotation marks.
Click to expand...
I agree with this, no need I just had to recheck the source material.
 
Theoretical said:
That was not the point, I'll re-clarify this for you. Shiki has many kimomo's, void shiki appearing with the same one various times doesn't necessarily mean when we see shiki ryougi with that kimono it immediately implies it's void shiki, for all we know regular shiki has many kimomo's that could just be one of them that she can use at any time.
Click to expand...
regular shiki has never worn that same kimono, it'd take more assumptions to believe that it's not void's trademark. Void always wears this kimono in the media she appears in.
Theoretical said:
No.
Click to expand...
yes
Theoretical said:
I really don't know what the first one statement proves, as far as knk goes regular shiki isn't aware of "Ryougi Shiki". As far as linguistics and semantics go "I" can mean anything without inherently implying "I" is "Ryougi Shiki", because the latter is referenced upon using quotations.
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These scans aren't from knk, they're from melty blood. At least in melty shiki is aware that another her exists. the male personality is dead, so that leaves him out. Also shikis last arc is literally void taking over. It shares the same name as void shiki's np in fgo, same visuals, literally a 1 to 1 recreation.
Theoretical said:
So idk what that justifies too, was that all?

OH, same nasu who states ort is the strongest in the type moon? Arcueid recently was re-afffimed as the strongest in mahoyo and the tsukihime world currently, Ort was stated to be the strongest.
Click to expand...
No, there's an interview with 4-gamer after the remake in which nasu says she's the strongest in tm history. anyway, knk still falls under the mahoyo side of things.
Theoretical said:
Immediately invalidates the "old interview statements". Arcueid(AE) =crimson moon, why isn't he there but she's there. I don't believe the ranking was made in order as well.
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red arc is already equal to crimson moon. also it's literally a top 3, if it wasnt ordered that would've been specified
Theoretical said:
That wasn't specified.
That all?


Ooo fs, it's not like they don't say she's omnipotent in fgo. Let's not talk about that right?
Click to expand...
holy grail is also stated to be omnipotent
Theoretical said:
I agree with this, no need I just had to recheck the source material.
Click to expand...
 
Theoretical said:
That was not the point, I'll re-clarify this for you. Shiki has many kimomo's, void shiki appearing with the same one various times doesn't necessarily mean when we see shiki ryougi with that kimono it immediately implies it's void shiki
Click to expand...
?
Then prove it. Your own sentence very much goes against your argument, and as result requires a much bigger leap in assuming it
 
Lol you Arc fanboys should make a crt then. I would disagree nonetheless but let's see this in a crt.
 
Violatas said:
What's even your problem???
This entire debate you've done nothing but make snide remarks when no one else has replied in such a manner back
Click to expand...
I literally just said you should make a crt lol. I'm simply tired of these illogical metas used to wank Arc when she's not even top 3. I've proved and explained multiple times why Void never faced Arc and why Void would utterly neg Arc if they ever faced but nah, you guys just keep meat riding Arc endlessly. So yeah, you fanboys ahould just make a crt already cuz nothing here is going to change if you only blab about something that's Innacurate.
 
Tdjwo said:
I literally just said you should make a crt lol. I'm simply tired of these illogical metas used to wank Arc when she's not even top 3. I've proved and explained multiple times why Void never faced Arc and why Void would utterly neg Arc if they ever faced but nah, you guys just keep meat riding Arc endlessly. So yeah, you fanboys ahould just make a crt already cuz nothing here is going to change if you only blab about something that's Innacurate.
Click to expand...
void shiki literally exists in melty, her last arc is void taking over, the same as saber shiki ( who is void)'s np in fgo. the counter evidence was just " not possible" and "self suggestion", which is impossible, as shiki isnt even carrying a sword
 
Tdjwo said:
I literally just said you should make a crt lol. I'm simply tired of these illogical metas used to wank Arc when she's not even top 3. I've proved and explained multiple times why Void never faced Arc and why Void would utterly neg Arc if they ever faced but nah, you guys just keep meat riding Arc endlessly.
Click to expand...
" Refrain from spamming, trolling, threatening, using derogatory comments of any form (ethnic, homophobic, belittling the physically disabled or mentally ill, et cetera), and rude, vulgar, sexist, etcetera offensive language. We do not tolerate any form of bigotry in any direction whatsoever. Furthermore, do not instigate drama or toxicity, and follow the instructions in official staff warnings."
 
Ah yes WOG statement that has Void Shiki has top 1 in KNK, FGO, and literally just her existence being the root which is undeniably top 1 in the verse. Make it make sense. Using an outdated interview from 20 yrs ago before ORT was even created is hilarious because ORT has the exact same ridiculous statement which only proves Nasu just says whatever at a given point. The only reason we know Void is undeniably the strongest in the verse is because of her root powers and a literal statement within one of the series that pits her at the strongest tier in comparison to Arc or ORT. Claiming otherwise is pure copium.
 
nasu has said each time that arcueid is the strongest in every work she appears in
Recent interview with Nasu on Tsukihime remake where he calls Arc the strongest Type Moon character:

シエルルートが特別なんですよ。TYPE-MOON伝奇の最強格を敵に回したらどうなるかを，絵として見せなくてはならなかったので。残りのルートがあれ以上派手になることはありません。……ないと……思います……。
Click to expand...
Fate/Extra material:

ところで、物質世界より情報世界の方が主流となっているEXTRA世界においては、そう最強なワケでもない。
Click to expand...
情報世界では伝説が真となるため、自然現象を擬神化したいわゆる”神様”が、元になった自然現象以上の力を持つ事が多々あるからだ。
Click to expand...
Explaining that Arc is “no longer” the strongest in the Moon Cell cause it’s a pure information World, the clear implication being that she is the strongest in the physical world.

He never even placed her directly above void that top 3 list wasn’t even stayed to be in order at all he was just listing the apparent 3 strongest within the nasuverse I don’t think there has ever been a time where he says it’s in order
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Comptiq 2007-05:

Ｑ：奈須きのこ作品全部を通して（空の境界、月姫、Fate、DDD）最強キャラトップ3を決めるとしたら誰になりますか？（石川県／聖なるパンダ）
Click to expand...
Ａ：マジカルアンバー（ルビーちゃん）。ネコアルク。虎。―――ではなく。 真面目な話なら1.アルクェイド、2.“両儀式”、3.原初の悪魔でしょうか。（サーヴァント除く）
Click to expand...
Note the numbers. If you’re going by fan translations, the one on the wiki at least left the numbers out.
 
BasedNecoScaler69 said:
void shiki literally exists in melty, her last arc is void taking over, the same as saber shiki ( who is void)'s np in fgo. the counter evidence was just " not possible" and "self suggestion", which is impossible, as shiki isnt even carrying a sword
Click to expand...
I've told you a gazillion times already that it wasn't Void fighting but whatever floats your boat. Make a crt and let's discuss it there.
 
BasedNecoScaler69 said:
nasu has said each time that arcueid is the strongest in every work she appears in
Recent interview with Nasu on Tsukihime remake where he calls Arc the strongest Type Moon character:


Fate/Extra material:



Explaining that Arc is “no longer” the strongest in the Moon Cell cause it’s a pure information World, the clear implication being that she is the strongest in the physical world.


Comptiq 2007-05:



Note the numbers. If you’re going by fan translations, the one on the wiki at least left the numbers out.
Click to expand...
The interview you showed me came from 2021, ORT debuted in FGO just last year and his profile came out just last year. And that same profile puts him at the strongest in type moon. So who are we supposed to take seriously? No one. Kinoko Nasu literally says whatever is on his mind at a particular point without thinking through until he actually sits and reads more about what he's writing. Hes done this with Gilgamesh vs Karna. Hes done it with Achilles, Lancer, etc. Pamphlets and interviews ahould be taken with a grain of salt when it's coming from Nasu. It's only if there are no contradictions, then we could use them as an evidence. ORT and Arc have contradicting statements and the only person who doesn't have any contradiction and actually sounds more logical, is Void Shiki being the strongest.

Also, wasn't Arc ********** the crap out of the root, talking about how supreme it is, guess who's the root?
 
Tdjwo said:
The interview you showed me came from 2021, ORT debuted in FGO just last year and his profile came out just last year. And that same profile puts him at the strongest in type moon.
Click to expand...
Can i see ort's fgo profile?
Tdjwo said:
So who are we supposed to take seriously? No one. Kinoko Nasu literally says whatever is on his mind at a particular point without thinking through until he actually sits and reads more about what he's writing. Hes done this with Gilgamesh vs Karna. Hes done it with Achilles, Lancer, etc. Pamphlets and interviews ahould be taken with a grain of salt when it's coming from Nasu. It's only if there are no contradictions, then we could use them as an evidence. ORT and Arc have contradicting statements and the only person who doesn't have any contradiction and actually sounds more logical, is Void Shiki being the strongest.
Click to expand...
nasu has said over 15 years, over different eras of type moon that arcueid is the strongest, or weakened, so she's no longer the strongest here. this is different from the typical one off interview statements.
Tdjwo said:
Also, wasn't Arc ********** the crap out of the root, talking about how supreme it is, guess who's the root?
Click to expand...
correction, void isnt "literally the root", she just has an extremely strong connection and access to it. plus, she's stated to be part of it, not all of it.
 
Right, that is Shiki's power. Like Fujino she can see channels that normal people can't see, she is able to see the spiral of origin with her eyes. But, I can go even deeper. No... maybe I myself am that spiral."
".... Spiral of origin, its where all cause and effect begin, where everything and nothing exist, that is my true identity. Even though we are just connected, but since I am part of it, I too am an equivocal existence, right? That is why I can do anything..hmm like restructuring the laws governing atomic matter, or go back in time to change the evolution and development of all life, to reconstruct the orders and laws of this world is easy for me too. Not making change to the existing world, but rather annihilate the old world with a new world."
 
BasedNecoScaler69 said:
Can i see ort's fgo profile?
Click to expand...
Just search it up. I'm on my phone rn.
BasedNecoScaler69 said:
nasu has said over 15 years, over different eras of type moon that arcueid is the strongest, or weakened, so she's no longer the strongest here. this is different from the typical one off interview statements.
Click to expand...
Yeah....sure. So are you saying ORT is now the "strongest Type Moon?" Cuz you know what that means?
BasedNecoScaler69 said:
correct, void isnt "literally the root", she just has an extremely strong connection and access to it. plus, she's stated to be part of it, not all of it.
Click to expand...
She literally stayed she "is it" after saying she is part of if. Also, her fgo profile of Saber shiki literally implies she is the physical manifestation of the root. Thays why her personality is void itself. Her origin is emptiness itself just like the root.
 
Tdjwo said:
Yeah....sure. So are you saying ORT is now the "strongest Type Moon?" Cuz you know what that means?
Click to expand...
Ultimate One of Mercury (?).

Companion to the Ultimate Ones that appear in the Sci-Fi short story Notes.... though due to some hick-up, this clutz has landed on Earth a bit early (about 5000 years or so).
The truth is... it's actually not one of the "ultimate species" that intercepted Earth's SOS signal, or something.
It's also stated that ort isnt even the strongest enitity that answered the earth's call
Tdjwo said:


She literally stayed she "is it" after saying she is part of if. Also, her fgo profile of Saber shiki literally implies she is the physical manifestation of the root. Thays why her personality is void itself. Her origin is emptiness itself just like the root.
Click to expand...
she says "maybe as in she's unsure." also if that was true, why was she threatened by the counter force?
 
Theoretical said:
Idk what you're talking about ngl, maybe you can clarify what you meant by this.

I.... Don't know what you're saying here too
Click to expand...
Can you eat using your hands?
Can you sleep in the ground?
Can you go naked everywhere?

The answer is yes to all those question.
You still don't usually do it like that. You would think it was strange if anyone did it, probably.
Something like that.
 
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