• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Nasuverse Discussion Board (New Forum)

Makenai said:
No way this is true, Magellan was used by Olga to manifest. In short Morgan failed to destroy the Fantasy Tree even by exploiting the connection between her fantasy tree and Magellan. Besides Kirschtaria was able to defend Rhong despite being exhausted after fighting Chaldea means that Morgan just a little bit stronger than him. Kirschtaria was only rivaling terminal Zeus, he can't match Zeus Mechanical Body which mean Kirschtaria is still weaker than the likes of Arjuna Alter and Surtr. So Morgan isn't anywhere stronger than them.
Click to expand...
Olga was only able to manifest thanks to Muramasa cutting Atlas before it was fully burned by Morgan (hence why she ended with that form). Wodime didn't use his grand spell against Chaldea (you know, when he use the cosmos as literal magic circle), using it cost him literally his life which is why he said he was going to only use it three times in total (first against Zeus, second against Chaldea in Olympus and third against Zeus if he won, which he didn't so he used it against Rhongo to save Chaldea), it's only gameplay wise that he use it to make the fight hard (otherwise you genuinely believe that a tired Ritsuka, Mash and Holmes defeated a peak Wodime with his grand magic after also fight Caenis? Because that's stupid), and since his grand magic use the energy itself of the stars it doesn't matter how physically tired he could be as his own energy don't play any rol with that. Wodime grand magic was so powerful that Zeus would need to go with everything to face it, and go with everything don't mean use his Aletheia, it means unleash all his Authorities, because literally at no point of the Olympus lostbelt history the machine gods ever fought with their terminals, and if he only had really defeated a terminal then there wouldn't be a reason for Aphrodite and Demeter to be slack-jawed in shock, nor Zeus would consider him his equal, nor the rest of gods would believe that nothing but Zeus himself could face him, heck Demeter herself says that he could easily single-handedly destroy their Aletheias, which include herself with her absurd authority that makes things immortal, and if you didn't know only when Zeus go with everything and unleash his limiters and Authorities is that his thunders reach a point where not even Demeter Auhtority can save people, which means that Wodime grand magic necessarily need to be at least this strong. So the fact that a simple Rhongo basically broke the grand magic of Wodime means that Morgan is above Zeus.
Makenai said:
No, just because Kirsch saw LB 6 as threat doesn't mean Morgan > Zeus. Kirsch also consider Surtr as biggest threat before. LB6 became threat to humanity because it's no longer a Lostbelt and can Invade PHH unlike other LB. It became threat to planet because of Vortigern and Cernunnos not Morgan. Surtr sword was also compared to Rhongomyniad with the only difference is that Surtr sword were made to destroy the world unlike Rhong which is made to hold the planet texture.
Click to expand...
You know that Ibuki, compared with Zeus, defeated a sligthly weakned Surtr right? Which means that full power Surtr is stronger than that, which makes completely logical why Wodime was worried of him you know? You also knows that Oberon needed Chaldea and Castoria help to defeat her right? You also know that Oberon was defeated by servant Castoria and that the Abyssal Worm was even cut open with the attack of an dying Albion? The same Albion that was fatally wounded by a weapon that Morgan used in the past long before she got her superior spear Rhongo? The same Albion that stated several times that Morgan is the only being in Fae Britain (along as well as Calamity Barguest, who btw was called Cath Palug equal) able to face her? You also know that someone vastly below Morgan was able to destroy 90% of Cernunnos curses correct? Cool if Surtr sword is equal to Rhongo, he only have one though while Morgan have twelve.
Makenai said:
No, she was only compared to Terminal Zeus and other Olympians, so she is still weaker than true body Zeus, she was defeated offscreen by Douman anyway.
Click to expand...
When casually showing a fraction of her power (she literally just walked and said kneel) she was compared to Zeus by the dudes who got to know the full power of Zeus, heck she didn't eve begin to show some minimal intent to fight (which was more due to amusement than anything else) until living Shuten used her own power, and due to feel more enterteined from their fighting back she casually unleashed with a single utterance a pressure far stronger than the one which was compared to Zeus (and this even after already be weakened by Shuten), so as result we get that a super casual Ibuki is stronger than Zeus pressure. Also, Ibuki wasn't killed by Douman (she never even considered Douman a treat to fight, she only saw him as amusing), she was only absorbed by the three due to she deciding that she would help our side, and even after get absorbed she was still able of so casually enjoy our side fIght that she even granted Kintoki a weapon able to defeat Douman with his grow tree and all. Literally at every single point of LB 5.5 Ibuki was so casual that its hilarous how she despite that surpassed Zeus and defeated the big bad villain Douman with a grow tree, it's almost memetic.




I understand the desire to see Zeus as the top of the Lostbelts, Wodime Lostbelt was hyped a lot after all and Atlantis itself was the peak writing of the first half of part 2, but the fact is that despite all that hype the writers don't actually care much for Zeus and don't hold him in such a great position in the great panorama of things.
 
Last edited:
Expectro2000xxx said:
You also knows that Oberon needed Chaldea and Castoria help to defeat her right?
Click to expand...
Oberon needed Chaldea because Cernnunos was blocking him from surfacng. Morgan sealing Cernnunos instead of killing him is why he can't deal with mogran.
Expectro2000xxx said:
You also know that Oberon was defeated by servant Castoria
Click to expand...
Castoria is sort of a counter to oberon.
Expectro2000xxx said:
that the Abyssal Worm was even cut open with the attack of an dying Albion?
Click to expand...
Albion cut open the abyssal worm after oberon was defeated and the abyssal worm closed its mouth. Basically after the abyssal worm was no longer a threat. I am not sure if cutting the abyssal worm open when oberon hasn't been defeated yet would really do anything.
Expectro2000xxx said:
You also know that someone vastly below Morgan was able to destroy 90% of Cernunnos curses correct?
Click to expand...
If you mean castoria, then thats kinda of a weird comparison since she used Morgan's preperations to deal with Cernunnos to destroy 90% of the outer curse layers.

Other than that I pretty much agreed with what you wrote.

I think the way the writers wrote each lostbelt had made it so that each lostbelt have a stronger king, so my personal ranking is Kukulkan>Morgan>Zeus>Arjuna>Mothman>Sutr>Ivan. Not sure about Mothman>Sutr tho.

On the other hand, and what I personally find more interesting, I am curious on how you guys rank the characters from lostbelt 6. Personally, I think its Morgan with her entire preparation(All the energy she gathered in the throne + the 12 rongos)>Cernunnos>Abyssal Worm (However, I don't think morgan really have a way to deal with the abyssal worm if oberon doesn't come out to get killed)>Melusine>Barghest>Morgan when she is off her throne(I honesty don't know about placing her this low since she should be way stronger, but I also don't really see Woodwose and a bunch of faeries killing either calamity)>Castoria.
 
vsbattles.com

Arcueid % changes and key revisions

Melty Blood Arcueid % rating: Something I noticed after going through Tsukihime and Melty Blood awhile back is that the site currently has a "50%" rating for how much power base Arcueid is supposedly using during Melty Blood. Just one problem...this is actually never stated anywhere. No WoG...
vsbattles.com vsbattles.com

Told myself I wouldn't bother with another Nasuverse CRT but since this shouldn't be controversial I figured oh well
 
Excaliburhuman said:
Oberon needed Chaldea because Cernnunos was blocking him from surfacng. Morgan sealing Cernnunos instead of killing him is why he can't deal with mogran.
Click to expand...
Oberon state that he had no means of defeating Morgan, so he needed someone who defeated both Morgan and Cernunnos so he could have free way to destroy the planet, both of them were a threat that he couldn't face (heck, even Albion and Calamity Barguest seem to also be a threat to him considering how he waited for both to die and how a dying Albion cut his Abyssal Worm).
Excaliburhuman said:
Castoria is sort of a counter to oberon.
Click to expand...
For how she talk it doesn't seem like Excalibur possess some special properties that make it ideal against Oberon, instead it she make it sound as if Excalibur is another thing he can consume in his endless emptiness but something powerful/dangerous enough to hurt him (which she did as his Spirit Core ended injuried enough that he fell in the endless abyss, something that anyone strong enough could had do).
Excaliburhuman said:
Albion cut open the abyssal worm after oberon was defeated and the abyssal worm closed its mouth. Basically after the abyssal worm was no longer a threat. I am not sure if cutting the abyssal worm open when oberon hasn't been defeated yet would really do anything.
Click to expand...
The Abyssal Worm was still a threat though, by losing its connection with the outside it was become even more inescapable than before, so there was no drop out of performance and instead his performance as a hollow seemed to actually be increasing. Also, Oberon consider Albion a threat in his voice lines, and he also states that Morgan is his nemesis that he needed to give everything to kill (and end by genuinely showing respect for her, something that the bastard haven't do for anyone else).
Excaliburhuman said:
If you mean castoria, then thats kinda of a weird comparison since she used Morgan's preperations to deal with Cernunnos to destroy 90% of the outer curse layers.
Click to expand...
Yes and no, she used the Rhongo's as cannyons but since she was unable to use them like anything close to what Morgan could she had to instead sacrifice her everything to instead use Excalibur and destroy 90% of Cernunnos curses, which means that a Castoria with absolutely everything she have is close to Morgan for only a single moment/attack.
Excaliburhuman said:
I think the way the writers wrote each lostbelt had made it so that each lostbelt have a stronger king, so my personal ranking is Kukulkan>Morgan>Zeus>Arjuna>Mothman>Sutr>Ivan. Not sure about Mothman>Sutr tho.

On the other hand, and what I personally find more interesting, I am curious on how you guys rank the characters from lostbelt 6. Personally, I think its Morgan with her entire preparation(All the energy she gathered in the throne + the 12 rongos)>Cernunnos>Abyssal Worm (However, I don't think morgan really have a way to deal with the abyssal worm if oberon doesn't come out to get killed)>Melusine>Barghest>Morgan when she is off her throne(I honesty don't know about placing her this low since she should be way stronger, but I also don't really see Woodwose and a bunch of faeries killing either calamity)>Castoria.
Click to expand...
I don't necessarily thinks so but the scaling is close enough to yours that it doesn't matter much, like Qin Shi Huang is in a sort of limbo without much scaling and Surtr would be above Zeus but meh.

Morgan > Cernunnos > Albion = Calamity Barguest > Castoria (after reach her peak, before that she would be below) > Oberon. Also, pretty sure Morgan death was more from plot convenience than anything else, at that point she was so broken that I'm sure Nasu didn't know how else they could take her down except for surprise attacks plus betrayal of her subjects (something that would also fit her role as tragic heroine in the story), heck they have gone so far to made her broken that they literally made her able to define the victor and loser by manipulating luck (aka fate as we now how luck in the verse is bullshit) with her skill as Lostbelt King (that's the effects of her From the Edges of the World: A). In cases like Arjuna Alter they buffed Karna to Super Sayan levels, with Zeus they used a Grand Servant, in Morgan battle they didn't have any of those narrative recurses (no new servants could appear to save the day and all out forces were at checkmate) so they had to come with that.
 
Don't really feel like arguing too much since in my mind they are all pretty relative to each other, but
Expectro2000xxx said:
Oberon state that he had no means of defeating Morgan, so he needed someone who defeated both Morgan and Cernunnos so he could have free way to destroy the planet, both of them were a threat that he couldn't face
Click to expand...
So the full scene was, Oberon saying Cernnunos blocks him from surfacing, Morgan is keeping Cernnunos sealed instead of kill ing Cernnunos, He has no way to deal with Morgan. So I inerpret it as he has no way to deal with Morgan due to Morgan keeping Cernnunos sealed.
Expectro2000xxx said:
The Abyssal Worm was still a threat though, by losing its connection with the outside it was become even more inescapable than before,
Click to expand...
That really only applies to people already trapped inside of it, Albion was outside which is why it helped chaldea when she struck the worm.
Expectro2000xxx said:
Yes and no, she used the Rhongo's as cannyons but since she was unable to use them like anything close to what Morgan could she had to instead sacrifice her everything to instead use Excalibur and destroy 90% of Cernunnos curses, which means that a Castoria with absolutely everything she have is close to Morgan for only a single moment/attack.
Click to expand...
The problem isn't that Castoria isn't close to Morgan interms of power its that Morgan designed the rongo set up to be operated by Morgan her self. Which is why Castoria had to change it to Excaliburs for it to hurt Cernnunos.
 
Excaliburhuman said:
Don't really feel like arguing too much since in my mind they are all pretty relative to each other, but

So the full scene was, Oberon saying Cernnunos blocks him from surfacing, Morgan is keeping Cernnunos sealed instead of kill ing Cernnunos, He has no way to deal with Morgan. So I inerpret it as he has no way to deal with Morgan due to Morgan keeping Cernnunos sealed.

That really only applies to people already trapped inside of it, Albion was outside which is why it helped chaldea when she struck the worm.

The problem isn't that Castoria isn't close to Morgan interms of power its that Morgan designed the rongo set up to be operated by Morgan her self. Which is why Castoria had to change it to Excaliburs for it to hurt Cernnunos.
Click to expand...
Same, don't feel like wanting to argue much over something this minor, so probably also my last post in the matter.

Even if we take it like that, that would still mean that Morgan is above Oberon as she could face Cernunnos who was blocking Oberon, either interpretation ends with her above him.

Albion saw the destroyer of Fae Britain while destroying Fae Britain and decided to take it down before she herself died completely. Also, again, there is literally nothing that states that the Abyss Worm was weaker at that point from stopping of consuming things, after all the thing is completely different to other threats that grow stronger by consuming things (like Sefar for example), his threat come entirely from the fact that he suck things inside a infinite void that people can't escape, so in that sense by becoming even more inescapable (like it was turning at that point) is that it seems to have become in any way more dangerous. Besides, the fact remain that Oberon still straight up says in his voice lines that Albion/Melusine is dangerous and that he need to run from her.

You are missing how it's stated that the system was supposed to be used by a genius, and how Castoria lacks sufficient circuits to use twelve Rhongo's and trying to use them regardless destroy her body, in other words her body itself is incapable to sustain the energy of twelve Rhongo's while Morgan have no problem doing so. You are also ignoring how Castoria says that she never come close to Morgan in strength or ability, and that she was given only a single more chance to show her worth for a single moment to her, something that required Castoria to sacrifice everything she had. Although in favor of Castoria, in retrospective she already was tired by the point of fighting Cernunnos so the fact that the remaining energy/strength she had was able to destroy 90% of Cernunnos is even more impressive, she would still be below Morgan (because she straight up says that several times) but that bump her overall strength a lot.
 
Most people forget Zeus even with 100% power can't destroy complete tree of emptyness and the fact he run away from U-Olga is proved he below Kukulkan and Morgan.
 
Tripleaccel555 said:
Most people forget Zeus even with 100% power can't destroy complete tree of emptyness and the fact he run away from U-Olga is proved he below Kukulkan and Morgan.
Click to expand...
His plan was to uproot it and replace it as the power source sustaining the Lostbelt, so why would he try to destroy it?

We don't know if it would have worked, but none of the other characters seem to think it to be an unrealistic outcome.
 
Currently re-watching Fate Apocrypha

Friendly reminder Caster of Red, aka William Shakespeare is awesome

acb8d48a336d76617589823e6c757294a3cae1fd_00.gif
 
Minor edit proposal

I saw Lostbelt Zeus had a profile now. I've found a full body render for his terminal so maybe it could be good to replace his current terminal profile pic with this (I can't do it since the profile is locked and I prefer to suggest the idea here anyway)


m2l2uoioflya1.png
 
Tdjwo said:
He also called ORT the strongest. Nasu doesn't know what he's saying during interviews. His opinion during interviews doesn't matter. We should know that by now.
Click to expand...
he's said variations of this statement a total of 3 times. if it was 1 off i would agree but 3 times gives more credibility. also im pretty sure that ort statement was just for notes, as its stated to be like a super-boss
 
BasedNecoScaler69 said:
he's said variations of this statement a total of 3 times. if it was 1 off i would agree but 3 times gives more credibility. also im pretty sure that ort statement was just for notes, as its stated to be like a super-boss
Click to expand...
Using your logic, Shiki still stomps. Do I even need to tell you how many times the root has been stated to be the most powerful thing in the verse. And guess who's basically the root.
ORT legit had the title of the strongest entity in TYPE MOON. Just like Arcueid did. Thr only difference we know is that Nasu is always saying rubbish in interviews compared to when he actually starts writing stuff down which means ORT being stronger than Arcueid is more logical than Arcueid being stronger than ORT. Nonetheless, both are victims of Shiki.
 
BasedNecoScaler69 said:
there's literally an infinite amount of mystic eye users in the tm world, why would she come from her own universe to target arcueid specifically


main-qimg-77a09c8163c0caee3ff146c9d48327cf-pjlq


more evidence
Click to expand...
I dont understand what that image was supposed to prove? Shiki and Arcueid have almost nothing similar in terms of abilities. Shiki is literally connected to the innefable Root. Archetype is different. Not even Crimson Moon compares to the root.
 
Tdjwo said:
Shiki and Arcueid have almost nothing similar in terms of abilities.
Click to expand...
"I" is referring to void shiki. she wants to hunt arcueid because she is similar to "herself". Also this line proves my point even more, as they have little shared besides a possible root connection
 
BasedNecoScaler69 said:
"I" is referring to void shiki. she wants to hunt arcueid because she is similar to "herself". Also this line proves my point even more, as they have little shared besides a possible root connection
Click to expand...
My brother in christ. Void Shiki has NEVER interacted with Arcuied before. Are you referring to Shiki with her self suggestion active? That's not Void Shiki. That's just Shiki with her Kusanada blade.
 
In all honesty, with Nasu being as inconsistent as he is, it's a neverending debate, though at least Archetype Earth and VS are at the top of the setting
 
ArkhamDC06 said:
In all honesty, with Nasu being as inconsistent as he is, it's a neverending debate, though at least Archetype Earth and VS are at the top of the setting
Click to expand...
nasu probably does not even know a damn thing about his verse tbh. He probably is in toriyama's position where he just writes the structure and details gets filled in by his squad. Dude was claiming shit like ryogi shiki cannot fight servants yet you have her killing 99 servants in Extra.
 
Grand_Saver_Ritsuka said:
nasu probably does not even know a damn thing about his verse tbh. He probably is in toriyama's position where he just writes the structure and details gets filled in by his squad. Dude was claiming shit like ryogi shiki cannot fight servants yet you have her killing 99 servants in Extra.
Click to expand...
"Void Shiki can barely fight Ciel" 🙃
 
Violatas said:
"Void Shiki can barely fight Ciel" 🙃
Click to expand...
Ah yes, the one (well, one of the two but considering who the other is and how obscure she is...) being who can have free access to the absolute power of the entire verse and basically whatever the heck she wants can barely fight someone far below anything even close to her
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Violatas
  • Locked
Nasuverse: Word of God Scaling Removal
2
Replies
71
Views
5K
Firestorm808
Firestorm808
CrimsonStarFallen
  • Locked
Nasuverse Discussion Rule
2
Replies
56
Views
5K
Violatas
Violatas
OuterLine0
Nasuverse Tier 0 Update
Replies
8
Views
2K
Spectra_Schiffer
Spectra_Schiffer
Tdjwo
Minor Ability addition for some Nasuverse characters
Replies
22
Views
3K
ShiftCtrlAltDeleteTabFn
ShiftCtrlAltDeleteTabFn
Tdjwo
  • Locked
The Truth About The Outer Gods in Nasuverse.
Replies
24
Views
5K
Antvasima
Antvasima
Back
Top