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Nasuverse Discussion Board (New Forum)

Marshadow29 said:
Yea she killed his future that he predicted, but her catchphrase is literally "if it's alive, i can kill anything, even the gods themselves."
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Yeah, the problem is that as Roa and Shiki's conversations have put directly (even though it is blatant in the rest of the work), everything is alive in her sense.
She also cuts the limit that define infinite as infinite in the BF she was put.
 
Marshadow29 said:
Shiki kills vlov's idea blood (which is a concept, with no notable side effects)
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LOL Wut??????
Ciel consumes Vlov's IB, how the **** would Shiki have killed it? (in her fight vs Arc)

But I do recall the scene, Shiki is said to cut something, but it wasn't Vlov. I don't remember if they say what it was that he cut, only that he didn't killed Vlov himself.
 
Marshadow29 said:
re-read the shiki vs vlov fight, he stabs a point representing vlov's principle
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Sorry, but to lazy to find the specific point.
The fact is it's not "without" side-effects. Corridor scene, Mystic Eye Killers reason of existing and Shiki only having a decade to live by the end of the VN (probably assuming he never uses his eyes again/keep them sealed with ME Killers) is proof. The latter is in the last Day Ciel Route IIRC.

EDIT: Rereading Ciel vs Arcueid fight because I had it pasted in a word file, Vlov's IB is clearly stated to still have A Principle, but it hasn't been stabilized to be useful as Magecraft, and she therefore uses it as heat/ME.
 
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LehenDuo said:
Sorry, but to lazy to find the specific point.
The fact is it's not "without" side-effects. Corridor scene, Mystic Eye Killers reason of existing and Shiki only having a decade to live by the end of the VN (probably assuming he never uses his eyes again/keep them sealed with ME Killers) is proof. The latter is in the last Day Ciel Route IIRC.

EDIT: Rereading Ciel vs Arcueid fight because I had it pasted in a word file, Vlov's IB is clearly stated to still have A Principle, but it hasn't been stabilized to be useful as Magecraft, and she therefore uses it as heat/ME.
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not sure whats going on there then, vlov's principle is rendered useless for the rest of the fight, though things regenerating from the meodp isnt completely unheard-of
 
Marshadow29 said:
not sure whats going on there then, vlov's principle is rendered useless for the rest of the fight, though things regenerating from the meodp isnt completely unheard-of
Click to expand...
If you mean Arc's Body, it didn't regenerate.

The part I was refering that shows Ciel using Roa's IB/mentioning it has a principle.
[Putting her] breath to order, Ciel tore the armaments from the greatbow (弩弓, dokyuu).
　By Arcuied's claws was the greatbow crushed.
　[Following] forth from her sniping with pursuant shots was no longer possible.
　She couldn't but [engage] the battle with her remaining armaments — the assault rifle what was as the 1st Cause of Death, and the pile driver what was as the composite equipment [wrought] of the 3rd and 4th Causes of Death.

　However, the mana [borne] by Ciel herself was nearly exhausted.
　Supposing that the quantity of mana generated by the average magus is 20, Ciel's quantity of generation [can] reach 5000.
　Having meaninglessly expended an offensive what carried such a vast quantity of mana, Ciel's mental exhaustion was immeasurable.

「— unscathed.
　You were unscathed just now, Arcuied — ?」

　Below was the figure of the True Ancestor, slowly rising from he crumbling building.
　Just slightly, a hesitation manifested as of Ciel's [train of] thought.

　I can't win.
　As expected, I can't win.
　I should escape.
　If I don't —

　There has to be another way.
　Possibilities yet remain.
　Therefore, I should escape.
　Because I don't want to die.
　I don't want to [come] unto a thing like that, more painful than death.
　At present, I can make it as yet.
　If I clasp his hand and run away to the extent that strength permits, then surely — !

「— no. That alone is certainly [impermissible].
　The match does here begin, Arcuied.
　Setting aside everything else —
　with regards to him alone, I cannot lose to you」

　Resolving herself to a battle to the death, Ciel unsealed her final trump.
　She took in hand the 『fruit』 what was stowed as of her pile driver —
　a crimson fruit, alike to jellied blood.
　This was the sole vestige of the Curse what remained as of the elimination of Vlov Arkhangel.
　A crystallization of a power as to encroach upon the World, termed as Preceptual Blood BoundaryIdea Blood (原理血戒イデアブラッド, genri kekkaiidea buraddo, lit. "principle blood commandment").

「— Vlov's Principle (原理, genri) isn't nurtured.
　Even that this is put to words, a novel grand thaumaturgy (大魔術, dai-majutsu) cannot so be brought to formulation.
　However —」

　But even that it doesn't assume a Form (カタチ, katachi), it [can] become as the heat (熱量, netsuryou) of a Curse.
　The three Principles situatedembedded as of Ciel's body activated.
　Making use of Vlov's Preceptual Blood Boundary what had been held [in reserve] as a new reactor core (炉心, roshin), Ciel replenished her mana.
　The price to be paid was the burden upon the flesh what could come 『hereafter』, and a loss of humanity (人間性, ningensei, lit. "human nature").
　[Also], she would come to more approximate a monster (怪物, kaibutsu) than a human being.

「Set — Code, Galgalim (ガルガリン, garugarin).」

　To the distant skies, she raised her hand.
　Unconcerned even so, Ciel leapt forth into the city of the night.
　The drop would land her as of the canyon of building [veiled] in dust.
　The final hell where the white vampire fearlessly laughed; where awaited a horrific death.

「... less than 3 minutes till Vlov's Principle is burned to consumption.
　At the very least, I'll have you see that I can hold until then — !」

　Ejecting (噴出, funshutsu, v. "jet") mana [come of] excessive generation (過剰生成, kajou seisei) as if it were blood, the Executor plunged forth into the final battle.
Click to expand...

Wasn't the thing that Shiki killed the sire's Principle?
 
Ultra_instinct_issei said:
whoa dude, careful with that. Any any staff sees you you would end up in trouble
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😭This was funny for some reason
Tdjwo said:
Yes. There's obviously a High 1B structure in the verse and I've argued for it several times but goons wouldn't accept it.
Click to expand...
💀
MrUnderlord said:
Outer Gods at least planet and gods +1, so this is fine for me. Ehehe
Click to expand...
Idk about that.
BestMGQScalerEver said:
I meant all of nasu.
Click to expand...
Idk about that.
 
Anyone remember 5-B Goetia ? I think I remember that profile around 2018 something

and yeah Before the 4-D invulnerability stuff , NasuVerse had plenty of matches in the 6-C category , seemed like mindless fun back then
 
If the high 1B stuff is about the superdimensional hypercube stuff, then it's not even close to High 1B. Rather, it's 4D max.
 
Ultra_instinct_issei said:
same.

um ok, but where does the high 1-B/infinite dimensional part comes from? as far as others told me, remake is basically one of the weakest series in nasu and true ancestors where nerfed like arucied's backup only allowing her a finite power which the planet supplies her before she explodes and other stuff.
Click to expand...
og tsuki is already one of the most op nasuverse works (mostly because of lore)
 
Ultra_instinct_issei said:
same.

um ok, but where does the high 1-B/infinite dimensional part comes from? as far as others told me, remake is basically one of the weakest series in nasu and true ancestors where nerfed like arucied's backup only allowing her a finite power which the planet supplies her before she explodes and other stuff.
Click to expand...
Heres the nasuverse works rated by power
1. FGO
2. Mahoyo (mostly because of Aoko, true magic is THAT broken)
3. Tsukihime Remake
4. Fate/extra
5.Og tsuki
6. Kara no Kyoukai (yes, void shiki exists, but she doesn't even fight except as a servant)
7. Fate stay night and anyother fate work not mentioned above
 
Marshadow29 said:
Heres the nasuverse works rated by power
1. FGO
2. Mahoyo (mostly because of Aoko, true magic is THAT broken)
3. Tsukihime Remake
4. Fate/extra
5.Og tsuki
6. Kara no Kyoukai (yes, void shiki exists, but she doesn't even fight except as a servant)
7. Fate stay night and anyother fate work not mentioned above
Click to expand...
Kara no Kyoukai should be first. It doesn't matter if she fought or not. We still know how powerful she is.
 
Marshadow29 said:
we know she's an avatar of the root, but not if her powers are limited by the counter force like manaka
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Manaka is not an avatar to the root. Her connection is nowhere close to Void Shiki's. Void Shiki implied she could end the entire Nasuverse if she wanted to.
 
Marshadow29 said:
yea, i dont see anything, only thing that might pass is that arceuid keeps exponentially increasing in power infinitely, and we already know finite changes in arceuid's power buffs her to higher infinities
Click to expand...
I feel like there's no statement. It's just a possible misconception they have. If there was, I would have known. After all, I already listed how the verse has multiple High 1B statements and implications.
 
Tdjwo said:
I feel like there's no statement. It's just a possible misconception they have. If there was, I would have known. After all, I already listed how the verse has multiple High 1B statements and implications.
Click to expand...
speaking of, finite changes in power = higher infinities is supported by multiple systems in the nasuverse
 
Tdjwo said:
Finite changes in power?
Click to expand...
ex arceuid at 30% of her power is 6-B, while her full power is 1-C

Also the numbers in the saint graph rankings, with 1-c characters being given finite power levels.

Avenger Iri gaining the power of the grail after absorbing 7 tier 6 servants ( which failed)

There's also the fact that the luminary could go into an infinite process of creating a stronger self, and retransforming into the luminary,with each iteration being stronger ( though the previous self would die after each attempt )
 
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Marshadow29 said:
ex arceuid at 30% of her power is 6-B, while her full power is 1-C

Also the numbers in the saint graph rankings, with 1-c characters being given finite power levels.

Avenger Iri gaining the power of the grail after absorbing 7 tier 6 servants ( which failed)

There's also the fact that the luminary could go into an infinite process of creating a stronger self, and retransforming into the luminary,with each iteration being stronger ( though the previous self would die after each attempt )
Click to expand...
Zeus, also
 
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