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Nasuverse Discussion Board (New Forum)

Weird Question; Why not go back into the 3 anime routes we have and look for some shots of the mountains to pixel scale from when using the feats from the visual novels? Who was it again? Was it saber alter who was able to vaporize a mountain or was it something about Hercules? Its been so long i don't remember.
 
Well, average mountain volume is 758590275.6 Meters^3

Fragmentation is 1.45 Megatons (Small City level)

Violent Fragmentation is 12.5 Megatons (City level)

Pulverization is 38.9 Megatons (City level)

I think Violent Fragmentation is a reasonable end to use, so theoretically the Servants would be "At least 7-B, possibly/likely High 6-C"
 
outside of debating the stuff brought up on this thread i just can't think of anything else that that could be calc'able.

I think everything that could be thought of has been brought up.
 
I genuinely believe that the best basis for scaling would likely be going off the feats of normal mages, hence why I want more Case Files translated. After that, the primordial runes boost could be applied to some of the magecraft shit they pull off.

Alternatively, they could simply scale far above since even middle tier Servants treat very powerful mages like shit.

I mentioned it before, but there is this fight between Sven and the Faker Servant. She's full C attributes, with only a strength of B. Sven, on the other hand, is using Beast Magecraft that enhances his bodily ability far beyond any normal Reinforcement, and then he is boosted by Volume Hydrageum wrapping around him as armor. Despite all of this and Faker seemingly not being a very strong or very skilled physical combatant, she matches Sven's assault with so much ease that Reines thought she wasn't trying, and cut through both his mercury maido armor and Reinforced body like butter. He was even marginally faster.

And this despite Volumen being comparable to Fiore's Bronze Link Manipulators, which would give a third-rate the power of a first-rate Magus.

I also believe that we should adjust Caster's durability, and other people with E Dura by extent. Caster outright tells Rin to her face that she must have gems left over, so why can't she fight a little longer? Hence, Rin being Rin, she should have abused one of those when she boosted herself to attack Caster (we even get told the gems she uses, and she indeed has still not used some by the end of the battle). Reinforcement is literally just putting mana on things to reinforce them- If someone with Caster's AP can boost Suzuki enough to hurt a weakened Saber and kill a weakened Rider, it makes sense that Rin can boost herself enough to hurt the pathetic durability of Caster, when her gems had enough energy to match Caster's own individual blasts, 5 gems were enough to kill Berserker in one shot, and in Caster's own words Rin could have used the gems to shield herself instead of negating Caster's spells entirely, and she had enough energy to shield herself 3 times with a single gem instead of wasting the entire gem for one attack (Rin did this to not kill Shirou, since Caster's attacks would have engulfed the entire room and she had cast protection on Souichirou.)
 
Unless we have a calc of a good feat from those magi, I believe scaling to this very simple thing that happened in Stay Night (before the Servant experienced hard power-creep) is the safest bet.
 
7-B for Attack Potency without using NPs for the higher-end physical Servants like Hercules does seem a lot more coherent.
I don't remember off the top of my head any good physical AP feats, but will se if I can find something.
 
Question, is it possible to scale physical stats to hercules backhanding a caladbolg II?? I don't remember the context of the seen though
 
There's differences between the UBW anime scene and how it was shown in the visual novels. Let me see if I can find the question Nasu talks about it

EDIT:
Q: Berserker took no damage from Archer's A-rank Noble Phantasm "Broken Phantasm" (Caladbolg), is it ineffective due to Berserk's Noble Phantasm, or was he simply able to withstand it naturally? <Not Mr. Shanoa>

Nasu: Oh, that. In the original work it was like "Even though up until then none of the attacks had been worth dodging, this one would have been fatal, so Berserker counters → the resulting explosion from the Noble Phantasm is devastating." Yet in the anime version it was handled as "Berserker could not respond to it due to a severe injury from Saber → losing one of his lives, and regenerates," which may be something to think about. In all he lost 2 lives because of it.
Takeuchi: Oh, so that's why God Hand in the anime version needed 3 days to recover!
Click to expand...
So, in the VN he counters the attack (presumibly using the axe-sword), while in the anime he gets hit and killed.
 
The explosion still occurs, which is the effect of Caladbolg hitting, but instead of hitting Herakles, it hits his sword. The common trope of ''cutting the enemy attack'', I would imagine. Or at least that's how it seems to me.

EDIT: Confirming, he did attack Caladbolg with his axe-sword.
 
Question related to servant scaling.

Most of the servants profiles' stamina is section says that they can fight for a entire day (Or two) on. As far I know all of them are scaled to Cu fight Gilgamesh.

But is not this feat unscalable (At least to most servants) due to Lancer having specific skills, I.e Battle Continuation and Resistances to Arrows?
 
Newendigo said:
But is not this feat unscalable (At least to most servants) due to Lancer having specific skills, I.e Battle Continuation and Resistances to Arrows?
Click to expand...
None of those Skills are related to Stamina, though. Battle Continuation is like ''my HP is 0, but I'm still alive'' and Protection from Arrows is defense agaisnt ranged attacks.
The Stamina thing is because all Servants are Ether bodies that, when materialized, imitate normal flesh and blood, but are still only dependent on magical energy. I remember seeing a quote about how their metabolism is optional and etc, let me see if it deals with this point or if I'm misremembering.

But, given an unlimited supply of magical energy, ''Stamina'' or ''Fatigue'' shouldn't be a thing to worry.
 
They can also be "suffocated", but they don't actually need air. Stopping the process just stops the circulation of magical energy in their body, as explained when Paracelsus stuffs Bryn in a water elemental of his making.

And I actually argued before that Caladbolg likely is weaker than it's rank should imply. Either that, or Berserker intercepts the blow so that when it explodes, he isn't taking the majority of it.

Otherwise, he's matching and coming out unscathed from clashing with Caladbolg, yet getting one shot by Durindana, which has enough left over power after piercing him to hurt Asterios. The contrast feels a little too massive.

Edit: As for stuff scaling to normal physical strength beyond 6-C, there was Arjuna's feat. He completely levels the forest you are fighting in when using his NP Agni Gandiva at full power in one attack, leaving nothing but a wasteland, so pulverization or vaporization seem possible. It may even be slightly lowballed, since we see the height of the ground is highly irregular all around but then it is all level and smooth after he is done. He also says that normally he uses only 10% of it's power, so dividing that by 10 should give us his normal AP as that's how he normally fights.
 
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LSirLancelotDuLacl said:
And I actually argued before that Caladbolg likely is weaker than it's rank should imply. Either that, or Berserker intercepts the blow so that when it explodes, he isn't taking the majority of it.
Click to expand...
In the VN, he definitely ''softens'' the impact. Now, Durindana, he just straight up takes it on.
25-UBW03-07a-060.jpg

Yet, as Nasu said in the question I posted above ''the resulting explosion from the Noble Phantasm is devastating''
The original Caladbolg is an Anti-Army, also. I couldn't find anything of the type of Caladbolg II, but it definitely doesn't seem big enough to be an Anti-Army.
 
Though now that I am thinking about it, not sure how to really get a proper size for the forest... the map is in Germania, so perhaps a picture of the interlude area would help.
 
Caladbolg II is still a sword isn't it?

Also, as far as I am aware. In series feats > WoG unless there is further proof for WoG.
 
It is a sword, yes. But heavily modified to serve more as an arrow.

And yeah, feats come first. But if they are inconsistent, we have to work out what makes the most sense from the available information.

Hence me arguing that Berserker by no means should be scaling to A Rank NPs because he struck Caladbolg. Almost always NPs are plain stronger than Servant's normal attacks, and Berserker got one shotted by another NP of equal rank, so scaling him to that was dumb as best.

Though Caladbolg does twist space, so is anyone's guess if it's explosion is even comparable to the actual power of a proper NP. Doesn't really feel like it's main feature, more a nice added benefit.

Edit: Actually, wait. We see that the entire area in the map is very forested, all the way to the very long line of mountains near the map area (which is just called Germania, so that should be the Alps). After it is turned into a wasteland, there is not a single tree all the way to the mountains in the background even through in the map, the extended forested area reaches to their base. Best way I can think of calcing would be checking how high those mountains are, and then how far away they are. It could give a very good result, especially since it would seem you are at the epicenter of it all.
 
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Some physical feats:

There is Berserker's attack which repelled the explosion of Broken Phantasm Caladbolg, and the weakened explosion would have been enough to kill Saber.

Arjuna and Karna have casual hill busting


And for what it is worth, Mecha Eli-Chan activates her rocket punch and threatens to blow up a mountain to lure a kaiju out.

The four throw-away Noble Phantasms Gilgamesh used on the Giant Horror were thrown with enough power to split mountains. Berserker was able to repel several high-quality Noble Phantasms from Gilgamesh.

Alcides was buried into a hill as high as a skyscraper, and by jumping he made a volcano-like eruption that resulted in countless large boulders rising up, to the point that a person on an other hill had to crane her head up to see how high the boulders went.

Jeanne was able to block Crying Warmonger Spartacus' attack, which resulted in shockwaves that made the cloud-level Hanging Guardian violently shake as if there is an earthquake. In LB3 he used Crying Warmonger to obliterated a giant meteor and leave no trace of it after he was given the Command Spell 'Jump', he was able to survive briefly but died from his injures with his Saint Graph destroyed afterwards.

Nero physically blocked Excalibur Galatine with Aestus Estus.
 
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Nero blocking Galatine is an outlier left and right, that should never be used.

The Spartacus feat is impossible to use for normal specs, that would belong in the Higher with NP area and really couldn't be scaled to normal Spartacus nor other Servants.

The rest sounds good though.
 
SuperKamiNappa said:
Is that necessary? We already have a general calc for mountain busting that we could use
Click to expand...
I like having a direct calc for a specific verse to link to, that blog would make it blatantly obvious what the servants scale to, whereas beforehand, it was confusing as ****, I mean so many profiles on this site are confusing and make it really hard to find the ratings of a specific tier and character
 
I would imagine that's also partly just the general inefficiency of many profiles to articulate things well so that it is easy to find what people scale to.

Though how does the forest feat sounds to you, Mitch? We know which forest it is, there's literally no trace left of it and it turns into a wasteland so pulverization could work (sadly the stock image for wasteland is not scorched so vaporization would likely just not work...) and just gotta divide the value by 10.
 
LSirLancelotDuLacl said:
I would imagine that's also partly just the general inefficiency of many profiles to articulate things well so that it is easy to find what people scale to.

Though how does the forest feat sounds to you, Mitch? We know which forest it is, there's literally no trace left of it and it turns into a wasteland so pulverization could work (sadly the stock image for wasteland is not scorched so vaporization would likely just not work...) and just gotta divide the value by 10.
Click to expand...
What feat is that again? I can try and calcing several things for Fate
 
It is Arjuna's Interlude 1.

He is trying to fight a bunch of beasts to see if you can wield him as a weapon, with increasingly stronger monsters. By the end, he is getting into the groove of things a little too much, so he uses the full power of Agni Gandiva, his bow, to kill the enemy with one last attack. The background goes from the forested one to a full-on wasteland after, and Mash says that the forest has been leveled/disappeared. The map area is in Germany and John mentions that it is outright called out as the Black Forest (an actual forest in the south-south-west of Germany).

He also says outright at the start that he normally uses a mere 10% of the bow's power. So we can scale off to other characters since that'd be his standard AP most of the time.
 
LSirLancelotDuLacl said:
It is Arjuna's Interlude 1.
Click to expand...


/\ Link if needed. The landscale destruction is the very last section of the video.

But there's a problem, he chants ''Oh Shiva'' bla bla bla before, what means that the feat is from his Pashupata, not from Agni
He is chanting for Agni -> says ''this is not enough'' -> chants Pashupata
(And the context here, that seems relevant - It's the Interlude to upgrade Pashupata)
 
So if it was done with Pash then it can't be used for scaling.
Even if it was Gandiva isn't that a noble phantasm? would it really be appropriate to backscale his normal stats to a NP release?
 
SuperKamiNappa said:
So if it was done with Pash then it can't be used for scaling.
Even if it was Gandiva isn't that a noble phantasm? would it really be appropriate to backscale his normal stats to a NP release?
Click to expand...
His normal attack is Gandiva, so, at least for him, that would be correct - he's one of the archers who actually use archery.
Clarent is also a NP, Kansho and Bakuya are also NP, etc etc, though.

Agni release =/= Agni as Arjuna's normal attack weapon.
 
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