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Nasuverse Discussion Board (New Forum)

LSirLancelotDuLacl said:
@Velox So what I have said forever, asking where people even get their "information" that Olympus was disliked. It has issues, but everyone I asked never had concrete reasons and could never answer correctly.
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For most part, it cames from twitter and then that guy who made that reddit thread used all of that as said "information", yet its all of bullcrap lel
 
TheUnshakableOne said:
This is a Mystic Code designed and created by Zelretch, a magician known and feared as the "Kaleidoscope."

Its true form is not a sword, but a staff.
Although limited, it can draw out magical energy leaked from parallel worlds...
Making the Second Magic a reality and creating slashes of light from concentrated energy.
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Zelretch CE description
Quantum Lock still retcons.

@ThisIsMySwagPack If you can't be bothered to understand the argument, don't derail, at least.
 
CRT's can be made now, so what's going to be made first?

I'm very interested to see what's going to go down
 
I myself don't have anything planned, though I am likely to comment on anything that gets made.

Focusing on college and some other smaller series I follow. If I stop feeling so lazy ;w;
 
From what I remember Its Authority, speed and「　」.

Pretty sure there's more though.

But the others are busy with the other verse crt.

Edit: All A+ Anti-Army NP upgraded too 6-B
 
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I can do my CRT on Zouken and Bazett, but if no one is planning a big revision, I'd rather there be a general all-purpose Nasuverse CRT.
 
Not sure if there's anything that merits a general all-purpose CRT.

Rather, a blog about terms may be better. Or linking and crediting resources like the material books, Tmdict, translations for stuff like TMIII, and/or the explanation doc from BL that is like 400 pages long but has a good index.
 
Well, I guess we can start with revising Base Servant stats, the current 6-C rating is completely wrong
 
One thing I believe is definitely necessary (not only in Nasuverse profiles really, but probably in the wikia as a whole) is to source the reason for the Powers better. So many things are thrown there without a link or reasoning and it gets really confusing really fast.
 
LehenDuo said:
One thing I believe is definitely necessary (not only in Nasuverse profiles really, but probably in the wikia as a whole) is to source the reason for the Powers better. So many things are thrown there without a link or reasoning and it gets really confusing really fast.
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Tell me about it, it took me forever to figure out where the 6-C rating even came from at first
 
Quantum Time-Lock is just a function performed by the World (namely Alaya)

If someone wipes out all timelines containing humanity and Alaya, he would automatically wiping out all of the forces that created and keep the Quantum Time-Lock system functioning, thus eliminating it entirely. This would make the timelines branch out infinitely since the Quantum Time-Lock System is no more.

Quantum Time-Lock didn't even exist back then when the solar system was created. Even gods are older than the history of humanity and its Quantum Time-Lock.

If the "World (Alaya)" was a person, can you claim Nasuverse is finite because "that one person (Alaya)" with 2-A Attack Potency (pruning infinite parallel worlds) keeps cutting parallel worlds out?

How do you deal with 2-A Character in other franchise, if he/she somehow deletes all parallel worlds? Does that convert all the other 2-A character to 2-B just because of that 1 event performed by that 1 dude?
 
You are mixing things, let's go back to the concept.

Quantum Timelock
#
A Quantum Timelock is a metaphysical event, it calculates the average “value” of each parallel world’s events, then locks past events down. A phenomenon that separates what was, and is, from what might be.
Our universe allows for countless possibilities and creates many parallels worlds and histories with different developments.
The universe has a finite amount of energy to spend maintaining each parallel world. Because the universe itself would expire if these realities were to expand without limit, it conserves energy by, excising worlds, at specific intervals, that have veered too far from the strongest, most stable timelines.
The Moon Cell has concluded that the universe we perceive of, which should be unstable, is being stabilized across the present, past, and future by this culling process and by quantum time locks.
The easiest way to visualize the process is to envision time as a giant tree, one that would grow indefinitely if left alone. The excision process is comparable to trimming the unneeded branches and leaving only the trunk of that tree.
History that becomes a part of the “time lock”1 will not change, even if it is affected by the past and future. The incidents that occur during a time lock will, in fact, never change, no matter what happens.
Even if one were to go back in time before the time lock to try and change history, once one reached the time lock, history would be forcefully restored to what was already registered there.
In a universe with quantum time locks, the outcome that is registered in an quantum time lock will not change. A time traveler can only alter the “process” by which it happens, but never the “result.”
For example, imagine that there was a war in Britain, and that the “result” that was locked in afterwards was that Britain was destroyed.
Even if you could manage to travel back in time and affect history so that Britain flourished, the war ended peacefully, and everyone had a happy ending… the moment that history reached the time lock, it would cause whatever “corrections” were necessary to ensure that, despite your efforts, Britain was still destroyed.
You might be able to change the lives of one, two, or perhaps even a handful of people, but you could not change the course of the vast river of human history.
That is the “Quantum Time Lock,” also known as the “Foundation of Human Order” in the world of magecraft.
On the other hand, it could be possible to deny human history from its foundations by destroying a quantum time lock through some great feat. But even with that method the most that could be done is deny human history beyond the destroyed quantum time lock.
The ones who can determine the next coming quantum time lock are those living in the era. Past and future intervention cannot affect the quantum time lock.
Archimedes’ goal in this game is to completely destroy the Moon Cell before the next quantum time lock, leading to a base world that would start from that precondition.
While it is normally not something that could happen, to do that Archimedes continued to shift across worlds.
If Archimedes were to completely shut down the Moon Cell before the setting of the next quantum time lock from his subjective perspective, he would achieve victory.
Although Archimedes emerges victorious on several occasions, he is not able to destroy the Moon Cell in any timeline.
While Archimedes was endeavoring to bring his plans to fruition, the Main Character was able to prove proved the route of a world that was average yet with the most potential to grow, and the quantum time lock was decided.
And just like that, Archimedes’ plans went up in smoke.
By the way, the timeline where the Main Character entered the titan’s cavern with Archimedes and was split into several pieces (right after the start of the main story of EXTELLA) is listed as “Quantum Time Lock A,” while the True Nero route ending is “Quantum Time Lock B.”
No matter what Archimedes does within this timeframe, the final “result” has already been determined.
Click to expand...
 
Is just a general issue of wording, which I would say some profiles in general have across many verses. Making it so that the person has to make the least amount of clicks towards Gawain as possible seems ideal.

@Tam0n3n I am gonna be honest, I am not entirely sure what you are arguing for or against or what you are trying to say in general. I am just mostly confused.

But the point remains the same. The only thing that is truly infinite is possibilities, timelines meanwhile are just infinitely growing. Possibilities would be what in arithmetic is understood as a complete infinity, while timelines would be an incomplete one. The second one is just a number that grows infinitely but is always finite. You are free to look it up yourself.

Not to mention the definition of Quantum Timelocks in the material book outright differentiating possibilities and timelines. Even Waver, one of the 12 lords of the Clocktower and feared for being able to analyze magecraft so easily, admits parallel worlds are not his specialty and he can only speak on the subject due to information feed to him upon his station as a Pseudo-Servant, so we can't just take everyone talking about the subject like some kind of expert. If Rin actually understood the entire theory well enough, she would actually know how to make the Zelretch Sword, not merely shave off a lot time and potentially create it ahead of when Zelretch expected it.
 
... So no one is going to mention that after all these years, Nobukatsu was finally added to FGO, and as a limited 1* to boot?
 
LSirLancelotDuLacl said:
If Rin actually understood the entire theory well enough, she would actually know how to make the Zelretch Sword, not merely shave off a lot time and potentially create it ahead of when Zelretch expected it.
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I may be remembering this wrong, but as Operation of Parallel Worlds is true Magic, it CANNOT be understood. Something about true Magic users only being capable of interacting with their respective spells throught intuition, or something like that. But could be wrong.

Ionliosite said:
... So no one is going to mention that after all these years, Nobukatsu was finally added to FGO, and as a limited 1* to boot?
Click to expand...
I have only one word to describe my reaction - CUUUUUTTEEEE :3
Hahahaha
 
@LehenDuo
I could very well reply to that by saying "If you can't be bothered to understand that your argument isn't enough, at least don't derail". The only thing I've seen are constant complains. There was an upgrade thread where anyone could have debunked the tiering. Now, you can post a CRT to try and debunk it. If I am derailing something by posting a single comment every few days, addressing someone, then what are you doing by arguing how 2-A is wrong in this thread when nothing can be achieved unless it's a content revision thread?

@LSirLancelotDuLacl
From what I remember, you commented on the revision thread itself, trying to debunk the claims, which wasn't accepted. Before that, I remember you tried to debunk 3-A upgrade, which also wasn't accepted. I really doubt it's simply because you were ignored or were given vague answers in response.

That's all. I'll be sure to visit the revision threads when they are made.
 
LSirLancelotDuLacl said:
Is just a general issue of wording, which I would say some profiles in general have across many verses. Making it so that the person has to make the least amount of clicks towards Gawain as possible seems ideal.

@Tam0n3n I am gonna be honest, I am not entirely sure what you are arguing for or against or what you are trying to say in general. I am just mostly confused.

But the point remains the same. The only thing that is truly infinite is possibilities, timelines meanwhile are just infinitely growing. Possibilities would be what in arithmetic is understood as a complete infinity, while timelines would be an incomplete one. The second one is just a number that grows infinitely but is always finite. You are free to look it up yourself.

Not to mention the definition of Quantum Timelocks in the material book outright differentiating possibilities and timelines. Even Waver, one of the 12 lords of the Clocktower and feared for being able to analyze magecraft so easily, admits parallel worlds are not his specialty and he can only speak on the subject due to information feed to him upon his station as a Pseudo-Servant, so we can't just take everyone talking about the subject like some kind of expert. If Rin actually understood the entire theory well enough, she would actually know how to make the Zelretch Sword, not merely shave off a lot time and potentially create it ahead of when Zelretch expected it.
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ok, my point is, Quantum Time-Lock does not affect the tiering of 2-A character. Quantum Time-Lock itself is a 2-A thing in my opinion
 
And my point is that a potential infinity can never be an actual infinity. All that would happen if Timelocks didn't happen would be Ceaseless Proliferation of Timelines. The only "infinite" implied is infinite growth, not an infinite number.

And even if it was infinite, that is not allowed. That is like giving someone 8-C for destroying a small tree that hasn't grown yet, because destroying a grown one would be equal to 8-C. Or killing a 6-C that was continuously growing to be 5-B. If something is at an end level, and you didn't do shit to it while it was at that end level, you don't scale to that end level.
 
ThisIsMySwagPack said:
From what I remember, you commented on the revision thread itself, trying to debunk the claims, which wasn't accepted. Before that, I remember you tried to debunk 3-A upgrade, which also wasn't accepted. I really doubt it's simply because you were ignored or were given vague answers in response.

That's all. I'll be sure to visit the revision threads when they are made.
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I did give proof for the 2-A one. My last post wasn't debunked in anyway that I can remember, you just did another "all of that has already been debunked and answered".

The Low 2-C one (that was the Kama one) was just me being skeptical at the massive increase and the fact that all we had was Shiro's translation, or at least his interpretation because nothing was really translated, plus the fact nothing else was on that level so there were contradictions.
 
Tam0n3n said:
Because of Quantum Time-Lock right?

What if a certain deity travels back in time, right before Quantum Time-Lock was even created and then wipes out all the infinite Parallel worlds including Past, Present and Future?
Click to expand...
That combines so many ''What ifs'' that, even if we could answer, the answer is useless...

TheUnshakableOne said:
edit: wait until Nasuverse 1-A CRT it is being planned....
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God, please, no
 
Nothing nowhere indicates that there were infinite timelines before Alaya existed...

Like... have you actually read the prologue of Extella? The Universe of Awareness is the one providing the energy for timelines to be created. Is why it culls them. Because that energy is finite. It's literally in the very prologue that introduces the concept.

And nothing nowhere indicates either that timelines would become infinite if not culled. That's not an assumption anyone would allow unless that was outright said.
 
LSirLancelotDuLacl said:
Nothing nowhere indicates that there were infinite timelines before Alaya existed...

Like... have you actually read the prologue of Extella? The Universe of Awareness is the one providing the energy for timelines to be created. Is why it culls them. Because that energy is finite. It's literally in the very prologue that introduces the concept.

And nothing nowhere indicates either that timelines would become infinite if not culled. That's not an assumption anyone would allow unless that was outright said.
Click to expand...

This is going into hypothesis region, but I would even say there are no timelines without ''humans''. The parallel worlds derive from possibility, and the possibilities (by Gilgamesh's Secret Garden) can be said to be a human feature. Gods are limited, ''one-dimensional'' creatures who have a set behaviour.
 
LSirLancelotDuLacl said:
Nothing nowhere indicates that there were infinite timelines before Alaya existed...

Like... have you actually read the prologue of Extella? The Universe of Awareness is the one providing the energy for timelines to be created. Is why it culls them. Because that energy is finite. It's literally in the very prologue that introduces the concept.

And nothing nowhere indicates either that timelines would become infinite if not culled. That's not an assumption anyone would allow unless that was outright said.
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How is a level 3 Multiverse not infinite? I could swear, i read somewhere that the "Universe" (宇宙, Uchuu?) permits the birth of unlimited possibilities, if there's no Quantum Time-Lock. I never said Energy of Quantum Time-Lock is infinite. It's finite for managing the Human Order Foundation (aka Quantum Time-Lock).
 
Tam0n3n said:
How is a level 3 Multiverse not infinite? I could swear, i read somewhere that the "Universe" (宇宙, Uchuu?) permits the birth of unlimited possibilities, if there's no Quantum Time-Lock. I never said Energy of Quantum Time-Lock is infinite. It's finite for managing the Human Order Foundation.
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Quantum Locks and Human Order Foundation are the same thing with different names. And it does permit, emphasis in PERMIT, not infinite possibilities EXIST. It's a potential.
 
You read the entire line, right...? "Infinite possibilities, and numerous timelines". Both words are separated, they aren't treated as the same.

If the universe has finite energy and needs to cut out timelines, how does finite energy nourish infinite timelines? How does cutting out timelines help when the result is, once more, infinite? It is logically inconsistent. The energy is not for managing the quantum timelock, it is for letting the timelines exist. Did you genuinely read the prologue? Honest question.

Seriously, how do people only look at the numbers and not the actual world-building that completely clashes with the interpretation?
 
LSirLancelotDuLacl said:
You read the entire line, right...? "Infinite possibilities, and numerous timelines". Both words are separated.

If the universe has finite energy and needs to cut out timelines, how does finite energy nourish infinite timelines? How does cutting out timelines help when the result is, once more, infinite? It is logically inconsistent.

Seriously, how do people only look at the numbers and not the actual world-building that completely clashes with the interpretation?
Click to expand...
The best part is that mugen (that conceptually means ''no limits'') could just as easily be translated as unlimited (As it is in Unlimited Blade Works, the same Kanji) and this whole conversation wouldn't be necessary.
Infinite as a mathematial concept and as a concept used in conversation should be equated...
 
LehenDuo said:
That combines so many ''What ifs'' that, even if we could answer, the answer is useless...


God, please, no
Click to expand...
There's been talks for it that's been happening for almost a year now...

However, these people don't realize the implications of how large this scaling is which shows anti-feats.
 
Its either 無限 (mugen) or 無数 (musu). Both use 無, or ''nothingness'' (that is a buddhist term and used in a lot of animes of samurai/swordfight for the ''mindlessness state) and were associated with the mathematical notion of infinite AFTER.

They both predate the concept of mathematical infinity, though.

The concept deals with the non-existence of bounds or limits, not with true infinity.

It's one of those ''It's not wrong to translate as Infinity, but to use the mathematical infinity as the true meaning of the word is silly.'' And the reason I say people shouldn't use infinite in Nasuverse, because the boy loves his 無.
 
I still think infinite isn't an issue, I have said before that I personality differentiate possibilities and timelines when used as terms, but what would you substitute it for as a word?

EDIT oOOOh. So similar to how he describes the whole thing about The Root. What would be a better japanese word for something like mathematical infinity in your opinion, then?
 
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