Naruto to Boruto Discussion Thread

[Arc7Kuroi]

Unfortunately for you, the burden of proof does not fall on me. The only reason she doesn’t scale by Wiki standards right now is due to UES. If anyone wishes to challenge this, they will need to present a compelling argument.

No one is debating you, you can have a normal conversation with people where questions are asked and answered.

 

[OneBleachHurricane]

you can have a normal conversation with people

Powerscaling mooks can do that?

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Powerscaling mooks can do that?

Idk if samlex can, I think he might just keep acting cringe.

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

I've been thinking about the current etso calcs

Yall remember when Kakashi said regarding the ETSO "If this gets too big we wont be able to return to this dimension"
implying it will grow to a level that takes up so much space from that dimension they wont be able to fight her
that it is so fast it's going to fill up the whole dimension if they waste too much time in the other dimensions


If we assume like one hour time frame instead of many years (creation and destruction should have comparable timeframes and an hour would still be a lowballed value, given kakashi's implied statement of signifying the need to seal her asap)
1.1369786E+42J/3600= 3.158×10^38
the planet level rating would be changed to Brown Dwarf Star Level


not sure if im tweaking with this one tho

 

[Samlex1234]

No one is debating you, you can have a normal conversation with people where questions are asked and answered.

Lol, is this really what you call a conversation? It feels more like an interrogation, with you trying to get me to reveal information. Also, I asked a question first, and then you responded with another question.

 

[Damage3245]

Unfortunately for you, the burden of proof does not fall on me. The only reason she doesn’t scale by Wiki standards right now is due to UES. If anyone wishes to challenge this, they will need to present a compelling argument.

Not how it works.

 

[Samlex1234]

Not how it works.

Tell me how it works

 

[karo_senpaii]

Also good news fellas! Or bad news depending on your opinion of me I guess

But I think I'll be able to get back to churning out CRTs by next month hopefully.

Bad news because the success of achievements

 

[Testarossa002]

Kaguya is such a dumbass. Why make a jutsu that takes time to be potent enough when you can just punch it at once and get it over with?
Is she slow?

 

[karo_senpaii]

Never knew ikemoto was this funny

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Kaguya is such a dumbass. Why make a jutsu that takes time to be potent enough when you can just punch it at once and get it over with?
Is she slow?

She unironically is.

 

[karo_senpaii]

I've been thinking about the current etso calcs

Yall remember when Kakashi said regarding the ETSO "If this gets too big we wont be able to return to this dimension"
implying it will grow to a level that takes up so much space from that dimension they wont be able to fight her
that it is so fast it's going to fill up the whole dimension if they waste too much time in the other dimensions


If we assume like one hour time frame instead of many years (creation and destruction should have comparable timeframes and an hour would still be a lowballed value, given kakashi's implied statement of signifying the need to seal her asap)
1.1369786E+42J/3600= 3.158×10^38
the planet level rating would be changed to Brown Dwarf Star Level


not sure if im tweaking with this one tho

Do you realize the rating is from creation not destruction? Unless something has changed EE does not have destruction value so this can't work.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Japanese is a context based my guy, the raws can say 1 but mean many, several orders is still a valid interpretation as judged by licensed translators

that statement would technically only apply to AP despite me personally being a proponent of strength and speed being proportional

Even if it was still several orders of magnitude for that statement, it'd only be like 6-C+ since I'm pretty sure it's scaling from Sai who's 7-B+

These are professionals that have been working on translations for years you cannot discredit human translation over machine translation

I'm fine if you say that for the initial statement (the second one I sent), but the second (the first I sent) which talks about his speed just doesn't have kanji relating to order of magnitude at all

WE HAVE ENOUGH ITACHI CONTENT

DO ONE ABOUT HAGOROMO, OR HAMURA, OR ASURA AND INDRA, OR KAGUYA, OR THE BIJUU, OR LITERALLY ANY FAMOUS KAGE

There can never be too much Minato or Itachi content Could get stuff about Itachi's time in the Akatsuki

Whats your guys craziets takes yall used to have around naruto scaling.

Early on in my nard powerscaling I used to argue each kybui tail was at least a ten times multiplier from the last

Edo Itachi>Peak EMS Sasuke
Base Minato~SM Hashirama
Edo Itachi vs Rinnegan Obito being a toss up
Edo Itachi beating Edo Nagato 9.9/10 times via blitzing and one shotting with Totsuka Blade
Armless SM Minato being stronger than Rinnegan SM Madara and Juubito

As you can see, Minato and Itachi are my favourite characters

what about the argument of EGVF being the strongest offensive jutsu, putting it above ETSO since kaguya tried to use it to wipe out team 7?

The kanji for strongest isn't there, it says flawless/absolutely perfect which you could use to argue it's the strongest, but it's definitely not as direct
拳は攻撃にはもちろんのこと防御にも使用できるため、カグヤの瞳術と相まって完全無欠、攻防一体の陣を築くことが可能だ。
The fists can be used not only for attacks but also for defense, allowing Kaguya to form a flawless, impregnable stance that integrates both offense and defense, especially when combined with her dōjutsu.

(also if you're gonna mention humans>machines again, this isn't even a machine, it's just a dictionary)

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

Do you realize the rating is from creation not destruction? Unless something has changed EE does not have destruction value so this can't work.

oh dang, didn't know that

 

[Samlex1234]

Kaguya is such a dumbass. Why make a jutsu that takes time to be potent enough when you can just punch it at once and get it over with?
Is she slow?

Honestly, it is because of the plot. Kishimoto likely designed ETSO to showcase her power in a way that enhances the plot rather than just focusing on efficiency. He needed to end it somehow while making sure Kaguya's strength was shown. same with Madara and Zetsu, killed off by the plot immediately after a power-up.

 

[karo_senpaii]

I'm fairly certain it is for the reasons I think but just to be sure can someone explain to me why curse mark susanoo does not have the 10x multiplier?

 

[MinatoSparkle]

I'm fairly certain it is for the reasons I think but just to be sure can someone explain to me why curse mark susanoo does not have the 10x multiplier?

Because Jugo is apparently just giving him his chakra

 

[Testarossa002]

Honestly, it is because of the plot. Kishimoto likely designed ETSO to showcase her power in a way that enhances the plot rather than just focusing on efficiency. He needed to end it somehow while making sure Kaguya's strength was shown. same with Madara and Zetsu, killed off by the plot immediately after a power-up.

Sure bro

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Lol, is this really what you call a conversation? It feels more like an interrogation, with you trying to get me to reveal information. Also, I asked a question first, and then you responded with another question.

I was just curious to hear out your argument for Kaguya scaling to her ETSO. It ain’t that deep… if you don’t want to answer that’s cool, idrc like that.

 

[NeoKingOfLight]

My thing is… The “Reason” we don’t scale Kaguya to the ETSB is because it was created with the SA Chakra but this is IGNORING a few things.

1. She is clearly shown doing 3 things Simultaneously: Absorbing IT Chakra, Creating the TSB and Transforming/Reforming her body from pure Chakra (Scan 1 | Scan 2)
2. Clearly not “all” of the SA chakra went to the ETSB as she still ended up exponentially stronger than before. Proving that she CAN use the power to significantly amplify herself.
3. The ETSB is created using a unquantifiable lesser amount of SA chakra when it is strongly implied that she “could” absorb ALL of their Chakra, killing them, if she wanted (NOTE: Naruto’s reaction with his sensory abilities was panic that BZ was gonna drain everyone. So the chakra initially being absorbed isn’t some insignificant amount).

The reasoning on Kaguya’s 5-B rating is that that’s the energy per second going into the ETSB and up to 4-C with ETSB overtime.

I think she’d need a revamp:

1. Original Kaguya: Low 5-B (Considered stronger by Hagoromo)
2. Resurrected Kaguya: At least 5-B, Likely higher w/ IT Chakra (In the process of being Resurrected, BZ was absorbing so much chakra from those trapped in IT, including the Shinobi whom a portion of their chakra created the ETSB, that Naruto with his Sensory Abilities thought they were gonna die). Stronger than before (After absorbing more IT Chakra, her stats were stated to have become exponentially greater by BZ).
3. Up to 4-C (The ETSB will, overtime, recreate a Dimension w/ a Star).

I think this makes infinitely more sense.

 

[Samlex1234]

My thing is… The “Reason” we don’t scale Kaguya to the ETSB is because it was created with the SA Chakra but this is IGNORING a few things.

1. She is clearly shown doing 3 things Simultaneously: Absorbing IT Chakra, Creating the TSB and Transforming/Reforming her body from pure Chakra (Scan 1 | Scan 2)
2. Clearly not “all” of the SA chakra went to the ETSB as she still ended up exponentially stronger than before. Proving that she CAN use the power to significantly amplify herself.
3. The ETSB is created using a unquantifiable lesser amount of SA chakra when it is strongly implied that she “could” absorb ALL of their Chakra, killing them, if she wanted (NOTE: Naruto’s reaction with his sensory abilities was panic that BZ was gonna drain everyone. So the chakra initially being absorbed isn’t some insignificant amount).

The reasoning on Kaguya’s 5-B rating is that that’s the energy per second going into the ETSB and up to 4-C with ETSB overtime.

I think she’d need a revamp:

1. Original Kaguya: Low 5-B (Considered stronger by Hagoromo)
2. Resurrected Kaguya: At least 5-B, Likely higher w/ IT Chakra (In the process of being Resurrected, BZ was absorbing so much chakra from those trapped in IT, including the Shinobi whom a portion of their chakra created the ETSB, that Naruto with his Sensory Abilities thought they were gonna die). Stronger than before (After absorbing more IT Chakra, her stats were stated to have become exponentially greater by BZ).
3. Up to 4-C (The ETSB will, overtime, recreate a Dimension w/ a Star).

I think this makes infinitely more sense.

Wow I love this, this is how we should present an argument—by staying focused and avoiding the mistake many Naruto and Boruto fans make: throwing together multiple unrelated points. For instance, bringing up Itachi’s novel statements as supporting evidence, which only derails the discussion and leads to the thread getting closed.

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

I'm fine if you say that for the initial statement (the second one I sent), but the second (the first I sent) which talks about his speed just doesn't have kanji relating to order of magnitude at all


The kanji for strongest isn't there, it says flawless/absolutely perfect which you could use to argue it's the strongest, but it's definitely not as direct
拳は攻撃にはもちろんのこと防御にも使用できるため、カグヤの瞳術と相まって完全無欠、攻防一体の陣を築くことが可能だ。
The fists can be used not only for attacks but also for defense, allowing Kaguya to form a flawless, impregnable stance that integrates both offense and defense, especially when combined with her dōjutsu.

(also if you're gonna mention humans>machines again, this isn't even a machine, it's just a dictionary)

1) Probably was interchangeable, they tend to add words despite the dictionary not outright saying it due to context supporting sth else

2) now for the kaguya stuff, dictionary definitions =/= valid translations, what they say matter, connotations matter and speech tones matter, basically same thing I said before, you need that to put into words instead of checking what it meant directly, also it can become a flawless jutsu makes 0 sense, same with perfection, it is likely translates to 'its the strongest jutsu'

that being said the strongest offensive ability statement might also be wrong I'd probably have to get that checked in the translation requests thread

 

[Samlex1234]

My thing is… The “Reason” we don’t scale Kaguya to the ETSB is because it was created with the SA Chakra but this is IGNORING a few things.

1. She is clearly shown doing 3 things Simultaneously: Absorbing IT Chakra, Creating the TSB and Transforming/Reforming her body from pure Chakra (Scan 1 | Scan 2)
2. Clearly not “all” of the SA chakra went to the ETSB as she still ended up exponentially stronger than before. Proving that she CAN use the power to significantly amplify herself.
3. The ETSB is created using a unquantifiable lesser amount of SA chakra when it is strongly implied that she “could” absorb ALL of their Chakra, killing them, if she wanted (NOTE: Naruto’s reaction with his sensory abilities was panic that BZ was gonna drain everyone. So the chakra initially being absorbed isn’t some insignificant amount).

The reasoning on Kaguya’s 5-B rating is that that’s the energy per second going into the ETSB and up to 4-C with ETSB overtime.

I think she’d need a revamp:

1. Original Kaguya: Low 5-B (Considered stronger by Hagoromo)
2. Resurrected Kaguya: At least 5-B, Likely higher w/ IT Chakra (In the process of being Resurrected, BZ was absorbing so much chakra from those trapped in IT, including the Shinobi whom a portion of their chakra created the ETSB, that Naruto with his Sensory Abilities thought they were gonna die). Stronger than before (After absorbing more IT Chakra, her stats were stated to have become exponentially greater by BZ).
3. Up to 4-C (The ETSB will, overtime, recreate a Dimension w/ a Star).

I think this makes infinitely more sense.

By the way just so you know. The reason has been updated. It is now UES

 

[NeoKingOfLight]

By the way just so you know. The reason has been updated. It is now UES

Yeah, her physicals wouldn’t scale.

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

Yeah, her physicals wouldn’t scale.

Does this give her 5B AP in jutsus?
or can we goon using statements of saying momo and kin who should dwarf her power level would have equivalent ap (and since boruto era interactions got them throwing back punches that gets the durability and striking strength given the same rating)

 

[NeoKingOfLight]

Does this give her 5B AP in jutsus?
or can we goon using statements of saying momo and kin who should dwarf her power level would have equivalent ap (and since boruto era interactions got them throwing back punches that gets the durability and striking strength given the same rating)

Imo, it should but I won’t make that argument yet. I’d have to see how the other notable members in the thread react to it and give their thoughts, if any.

 

[Samlex1234]

Does this give her 5B AP in jutsus?
or can we goon using statements of saying momo and kin who should dwarf her power level would have equivalent ap (and since boruto era interactions got them throwing back punches that gets the durability and striking strength given the same rating)

We can easily scale her durability and AP to it without Momo or kin. Momo and Kinshiki only scale when you get ETSO = Kaguya physicals. Read Neo’s argument and build on it.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

All of this to get hard capped by Uzuhiko's existence ~10x 5-B >>> Hidari >>> Code >>> Jigen >>> Naruto and Sasuke > Fused Momo > Momo >~ Kaguya

 

[NeoKingOfLight]

All of this to get hard capped by Uzuhiko's existence ~10x 5-B >>> Hidari >>> Code >>> Jigen >>> Naruto and Sasuke > Fused Momo > Momo >~ Kaguya

Fine by me

 

[Samlex1234]

Guys, If you take the time to carefully read the entire Kaguya fight from start to finish, you'll see through all these weak counterarguments. The problem is that many don't read instead they go off he said she said so they miss crucial details. It's not that you're lacking intelligence—it's just that without the right knowledge, it's easy to be misled. Stop listening to noodles and read for yourself.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Stop listening to noodles and read for youself.

facts

 

[Deceived3596]

Samlex vs Noodles when.

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

All of this to get hard capped by Uzuhiko's existence ~10x 5-B >>> Hidari >>> Code >>> Jigen >>> Naruto and Sasuke > Fused Momo > Momo >~ Kaguya

Boruto is not canon silly

 

[NeoKingOfLight]

@Arc7Kuroi
Really quickly… this always bugged me, but what is the justification for the Star Assumption in Kaguya’s Dimension? From the last, we do know the Otsutsuki are capable of “artificial suns”.

I personally can do without the 4-C if there is no justification for the star.

 

[Samlex1234]

@Arc7Kuroi
Really quickly… this always bugged me, but what is the justification for the Star Assumption in Kaguya’s Dimension? From the last, we do know the Otsutsuki are capable of “artificial suns”.

I personally can do without the 4-C if there is no justification for the star.

. That argument has been debunked I will link the thread for you.

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

@Arc7Kuroi
Really quickly… this always bugged me, but what is the justification for the Star Assumption in Kaguya’s Dimension? From the last, we do know the Otsutsuki are capable of “artificial suns”.

I personally can do without the 4-C if there is no justification for the star.

shadow that only be exists thanks to a star me thinks

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Guys, If you take the time to carefully read the entire Kaguya fight from start to finish, you'll see through all these weak counterarguments. The problem is that many don't read instead they go off he said she said so they miss crucial details. It's not that you're lacking intelligence—it's just that without the right knowledge, it's easy to be misled. Stop listening to noodles and read for yourself.

That goes so hard, on Diddy bruv

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

@Arc7Kuroi
Really quickly… this always bugged me, but what is the justification for the Star Assumption in Kaguya’s Dimension? From the last, we do know the Otsutsuki are capable of “artificial suns”.

I personally can do without the 4-C if there is no justification for the star.

If only you knew Arc's thoughts on this

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

That goes so hard, on Diddy bruv

samlex poppin out at diddy parties

@Arc7Kuroi
Really quickly… this always bugged me, but what is the justification for the Star Assumption in Kaguya’s Dimension? From the last, we do know the Otsutsuki are capable of “artificial suns”.

I personally can do without the 4-C if there is no justification for the star.

You can call into question whether or not her dimension contains a star, being skeptical and whatnot, there are plenty of instances in fiction of pocket realms have "brightness" or light without having a star. Among other things I don't believe the dimension objectively contains a star, I think at minimum it's like a 5-A space being it can contain a planet and moon, but I think 4-C is like a fine midball. I don't think I'd ever make a CRT against it else I wouldn't be able to argue 4-C Shibai lol and he'd be cucked to like 5-B and that'd suck.

 

[Deceived3596]

Arc believes in a Flat Earth with a firmament surrounding the planet. He doesn't actually believe stars exist.