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Naruto to Boruto Discussion Thread

Tdjwo said:
Whether Kekkei Mora falls under Shinjutsu or not.
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Oh, I think they are most likely yeah.
Tdjwo said:
Otsutsukis who have reached godhood are the ones who use Shinjutsu. And not every Otsutsuki has reached that. Not even Isshiki.
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This is also wrong btw, Isshiki's and Code's abilities are outright called Shinjutsu

ugHImEm.png


The ability God Otsutsuki use is Omnipotence

8Rx6pD5.png
 
Tdjwo said:
Because Kekkei Mora is the combination of all elements thats make up Ninjutsu or senjutsu. Meanwhile, Shinjutsu is verbatim stated to be neither Ninjutsu or Sage jutsu.
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Only TSO is a combinataion of all nature transformations, and Yin-Yang, not all Kekkei Mora

Also Kekkei Mora isn't a combination of ninjutsu, all Kekkei Genkai and Kekkei Tota descend from Kaguya. So basically Kaguya and Kekkei Mora are the genetic origin of all Kekkei Genkai, dojutsu (Rinnegan, Sharingan, and Byakugan come from her), and many ninjutsu are based on it.
 
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EmperorRorepmeThree said:
Only TSO is a combinataion of all nature transformations, and Yin-Yang, not all Kekkei Mora
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You're probably right about that. This even further helps my point on how Kaguya's abilities aren't Shinjutsu related when even ETSO, her most powerful attack which has the combination of every chakra nature shown in the verse along with Yin/Yang is simply regarded as a kekkei Mora.
EmperorRorepmeThree said:
Also Kekkei Mora isn't a combination of ninjutsu, all Kekkei Genkai and Kekkei Tota descend from Kaguya. So basically Kaguya and Kekkei Mora are the genetic origin of all Kekkei Genkai, dojutsu (Rinnegan, Sharingan, and Byakugan come from her), and many ninjutsu are based on it.
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So how exactly does this prove that Kekkei Mora is Shinjutsu-related?
 
NeoKingOfLight said:
Bleach and One Piece Fans when Boruto (Series) gets it’s EoS power-ups and Omnipotence showcases some Infinity Gauntlet / Heart of The Universe level feats… 😭😭😭
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It's been said that they can create worlds with Omnipotence, but that's probably referring to planets rather than universes

If the Otsutsuki Gods in Boruto become relevant then they better not get turned into fodder, but I can't see how they become relevant since they reside in a higher dimension unless it's like Kawaki wants to wipe out Otsutsuki Gods too or something
 
Tdjwo said:
Otsutsukis who have reached godhood are the ones who use Shinjutsu. And not every Otsutsuki has reached that. Not even Isshiki.
Click to expand...
This is just straight up untrue. You don't need godhood to use Shinjutsu. And Isshiki uses it.
Tdjwo said:
Stop sprouting bs and read the damn. Manga. Amado specifically stated Shinjutsu has nothing to do with Ninjutsu AND even Sage arts
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I've read it. Read my comment again. You claimed it has nothing to do with elements.
Tdjwo said:
He directly compared them to divine miracles never witnessed before. Even Naruto who has fought with Kaguya and seen all her abilities was amazed by Shinjutsu's description.
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Wrong again. Naruto at that point had also seen Isshiki's abilities. So this point is just bs.
Tdjwo said:
Rasengan is just a change in chakra form. Nothing special about it when you compare it to Shinjutsu that's seen a "divine miracle"
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You are the one who is equating Ninjutsu to chakra nature not me. I never said Shinjutsu is Ninjutsu. You claimed Shinjutsu should not have chakra natures. Which is a wild claim because it is never stated.
Tdjwo said:
I can't even make any logic out of this. Just because I'm trying to imitate Messi's playstyle, that doesn't automatically make me Messi.
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It doesn't make you Messi. But it would be wild to claim that you are performing an entirely different technique (even though it is same), just because you are not Messi. To put it simply, I am not saying Ninjutsu is derived from Shinjutsu, but considering that it is said to imitate Shinjutsu, it would be wrong to rule out chakra nature changes from Shinjutsu without any statements. It is stated to be not Ninjutsu, but it is not stated to not have chakra natures. I can't break it down anymore than this.
Tdjwo said:
Nothing was retconned. You just can't think deeply enough.
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This is so ironic.
Tdjwo said:
I don't see why Kishimoto would call a pre-existing concept another name when it supposedly means the same thing.
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Because he didn't think of "Shinjutsu" back then. That is the definition of a retcon smh.
Tdjwo said:
Kekkei Genkai, Kekkei Tota and Kekkei mora are all bloodline limits.
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They are also stated to be Ninjutsu. Which doesn't make sense because Ninjutsu wasn't invented then. Hence the retcon.
Tdjwo said:
Shinjutsu isn't shown to be that way.
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Doesn't mean it can't be that way. Read my original comment. I was just theorizing. There is no evidence to disprove that yet.
Tdjwo said:
Daemon, Eida, Code, Boruto and Kawaki (via Karma) are random ass people who got gifted Shinjutsu powers without any physical drawbacks like it would have been with anything that has the name, "Kekkei"
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Buddy. The "Kekkei" stuff that shinobi do have drawbacks because they are just shinobi. The people you mentioned are either Cyborgs or have a whole ass otsutsuki inside of them. Did Kaguya have any drawbacks while using "Kekkei" stuff? My question to you is simple. Ash bones are stated to be Ninjutsu. But Ninjutsu wasn't invented back then. So what are they? And why should we trust what outdated databooks have to say? If every "kekkei" stuff is either a dojutsu, or ninjutsu, then only thing that ash bones can be is shinjutsu.
 
vsbattles.com

Tier 2 Naruto CRT

Part 2 of this thread, since Tier 1 was rejected, I think Tier 2 Naruto has much stronger arguments. In case you aren't this is game Naruto, not canon. What does The Book of Transcendence contain As per the previous discussion, there was a lot of back and forth on whether the Book of...
vsbattles.com vsbattles.com
 
Pretty neat statement ngl
風影奪還任務中にイタチと対峙したナルトは、師・自来也との修業中に伝授された幻術の対処法を思い出した。幻術とは脳内のチャクラを操られた状態。解除するには、相手を上回る力で脳内のチャクラを乱す必要があるのだ。
Image

And I wonder if this means Base WA Kabuto~Orochimaru in stats
カブトはどうやって大蛇丸の力を手に入れた?大蛇丸の遺伝子を、血液から取り込んだカブト。絶犬なチャクラと生命力を手に入れ、数多の験術を操れるようになった。
Image
Image

UchihaSlayer96 said:
Sparkle, don't be a goon. The first one is in reference to Creation of All Things (Izanagi on crack), the Madara thing is in reference to the Rinnegan.
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She's referring to both. Konan didn't even know about Izanagi, she just heard Uchiha+Senju, and was like (light bulb) Six Paths power??
UchihaSlayer96 said:
Combining different aspects of Uchiha and Senju grants different aspects of Hagoromo's power, but not necessarily all of them. Rinnegan manifestation is one such combination, but it does not grant all of Hagoromo's abilities, and it does not grant SPC or Six Paths Senjutsu.
Click to expand...
Do you think Six Paths power doesn't involve SPC? And I wasn't arguing for SPS, since Momoshiki and Kinshiki could be hurt by ninjutsu.
UchihaSlayer96 said:
The difference is that we know how the MS is attained. We don't know how these other Otsutsuki get their Rinnegan.
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It's clearly genetically based regardless of what specific conditions need to be met, so doesn't seem like a stretch that very basic attributes like it being Six Paths power would apply to all of them.
UchihaSlayer96 said:
And you just said it yourself, they all have different abilities because they evolve through gaining different planets' chakra/genetic material. There's zero reason to equate their abilities.

She does have TSOs, she literally used one...
Click to expand...
Does she?
UchihaSlayer96 said:
And no, she does not have Rinnegan abilities. But even if she did, that wouldn't change anything I said because Six Paths chakra is a common trait for her bloodline. Having a Rinnegan or not has nothing to do with that.
Click to expand...
How did Hagoromo just magically attain a whole new dojutsu that never existed before even in his mother? The dojutsu we see she has is also literally the Rinne Sharingan, so seems doubtful that it wouldn't have the abilities of those dojutsu when it's the root of them.
 
MinatoSparkle said:
Pretty neat statement ngl
風影奪還任務中にイタチと対峙したナルトは、師・自来也との修業中に伝授された幻術の対処法を思い出した。幻術とは脳内のチャクラを操られた状態。解除するには、相手を上回る力で脳内のチャクラを乱す必要があるのだ。
Image

And I wonder if this means Base WA Kabuto~Orochimaru in stats
カブトはどうやって大蛇丸の力を手に入れた?大蛇丸の遺伝子を、血液から取り込んだカブト。絶犬なチャクラと生命力を手に入れ、数多の験術を操れるようになった。
Image
Image
Click to expand...
Sauce for both statements?
 
MinatoSparkle said:
And I wonder if this means Base WA Kabuto~Orochimaru in stats
カブトはどうやって大蛇丸の力を手に入れた?大蛇丸の遺伝子を、血液から取り込んだカブト。絶犬なチャクラと生命力を手に入れ、数多の験術を操れるようになった。
Image
Image
Click to expand...
It's possible. I don't think it's that much of a stretch to think that Kabuto taking in Orochimaru's genes and chakra, in addition to that of the Sound 5 and Hashirama's cells, could possibly make him reach Orochimaru's level. Especially because if we look at these statements from a different lens, they could be interpreted as Kabuto having surpassed Orochimaru before acquiring Sage Mode. Not saying it's a sure thing, but it's something I can potentially accept tbh. Great wank material for Itachi too.
MinatoSparkle said:
She's referring to both. Konan didn't even know about Izanagi, she just heard Uchiha+Senju, and was like (light bulb) Six Paths power??
Click to expand...
Sigh
Sparkle, so you don't think she knows about Izanagi (which is correct), but you think she'd know about Six Paths chakra and its properties? She has no reason to know about any of that.
More importantly, this is not the context here. These guys know that Hagoromo is the founder/originator of the Uchiha and Senju clans. They know that their powers come from him, originally. Konan just logically surmised that by combining Uchiha and Senju DNA, one would be attempting to recreate the power of the Sage of Six Paths, aka. "Six Paths power".
MinatoSparkle said:
Do you think Six Paths power doesn't involve SPC? And I wasn't arguing for SPS, since Momoshiki and Kinshiki could be hurt by ninjutsu.
Click to expand...
Depends on what "Six Paths power" we're talking about here. Not all of the attempts to recreate Hagoromo's power result in the recreation or acquirement of Six Paths chakra. Good examples of this would be Izanagi or the Rinnegan itself, which is what we're chiefly talking about here. The awakening of the Rinnegan does not result in the user acquiring Six Paths chakra, but it is part of the SO6P's "power" nonetheless.
MinatoSparkle said:
It's clearly genetically based regardless of what specific conditions need to be met, so doesn't seem like a stretch that very basic attributes like it being Six Paths power would apply to all of them.
Click to expand...
It's based on Hagoromo's genetics. You need to combine his genes in order to recreate his chakra to acquire his Rinnegan. That's why Madara and Sasuke's Rinnegans have the same exact abilities, because they're just recreations of Hagoromo's original ability. The other Otsutsuki do not share any of these things. Saying otherwise is an unsubstantiated claim. And, again, even if we say "all Rinnegan are the same", that still wouldn't change the fact that the Rinnegan by itself does not grant SPC.
MinatoSparkle said:
Does she?
Click to expand...
You're messing with me, aren't you?
MinatoSparkle said:
How did Hagoromo just magically attain a whole new dojutsu that never existed before even in his mother? The dojutsu we see she has is also literally the Rinne Sharingan, so seems doubtful that it wouldn't have the abilities of those dojutsu when it's the root of them.
Click to expand...
I never said he magically attained it. It's confirmed to have come from her Rinne-Sharingan, the "primordial dojutsu" or whatever. The thing is that the Rinne-Sharingan has never showcased the Rinnegan's abilities, and even worse, it's never been stated to have them either. It's only been stated to have the Sharingan's abilities. Saying any more than that would just be an assumption on our part.
One could argue for a Possibly due to the statement of her having the three primordial Dojutsu, and the IT being a Rinnegan based genjutsu, but nothing more than that.
 
Where is this from?

To_break_a_genjutsu_you_need_to_disrupt_the_chakra_in_the_brain_with_a_power_surpassing_that_of_the_opponent_Quiz_Book.png


Because I already know people with no literacy skills whatsoever ( IE average Naruto fan/power scaler ) is gonna say it

No this doesn't contradict genjutsu manipulating one's energy flow ( in this case chakra ) via first manipulating the 5 senses lmao

It just once again confirms the results of what happens when you control their 5 senses ( controlling the chakra in their brains )
 
KingogKings777 said:
Sauce for both statements?
Click to expand...
Naruto Quiz Book (download link cause I haven't found any site with it)
AnimesFreak2 said:
Where is this from?

To_break_a_genjutsu_you_need_to_disrupt_the_chakra_in_the_brain_with_a_power_surpassing_that_of_the_opponent_Quiz_Book.png
Click to expand...
Same as above
AnimesFreak2 said:
Because I already know people with no literacy skills whatsoever ( IE average Naruto fan/power scaler ) is gonna say it

No this doesn't contradict genjutsu manipulating one's energy flow ( in this case chakra ) via first manipulating the 5 senses lmao

It just once again confirms the results of what happens when you control their 5 senses ( controlling the chakra in their brains )
Click to expand...
I was referring to the fact that having superior power can stop it lol
UchihaSlayer96 said:
It's possible. I don't think it's that much of a stretch to think that Kabuto taking in Orochimaru's genes and chakra, in addition to that of the Sound 5 and Hashirama's cells, could possibly make him reach Orochimaru's level. Especially because if we look at these statements from a different lens, they could be interpreted as Kabuto having surpassed Orochimaru before acquiring Sage Mode. Not saying it's a sure thing, but it's something I can potentially accept tbh. Great wank material for Itachi too.
Click to expand...
🔥
UchihaSlayer96 said:
Sigh
Sparkle, so you don't think she knows about Izanagi (which is correct), but you think she'd know about Six Paths chakra and its properties? She has no reason to know about any of that.
More importantly, this is not the context here. These guys know that Hagoromo is the founder/originator of the Uchiha and Senju clans. They know that their powers come from him, originally. Konan just logically surmised that by combining Uchiha and Senju DNA, one would be attempting to recreate the power of the Sage of Six Paths, aka. "Six Paths power".

Depends on what "Six Paths power" we're talking about here. Not all of the attempts to recreate Hagoromo's power result in the recreation or acquirement of Six Paths chakra. Good examples of this would be Izanagi or the Rinnegan itself, which is what we're chiefly talking about here. The awakening of the Rinnegan does not result in the user acquiring Six Paths chakra, but it is part of the SO6P's "power" nonetheless.

It's based on Hagoromo's genetics. You need to combine his genes in order to recreate his chakra to acquire his Rinnegan. That's why Madara and Sasuke's Rinnegans have the same exact abilities, because they're just recreations of Hagoromo's original ability. The other Otsutsuki do not share any of these things. Saying otherwise is an unsubstantiated claim. And, again, even if we say "all Rinnegan are the same", that still wouldn't change the fact that the Rinnegan by itself does not grant SPC.

You're messing with me, aren't you?

I never said he magically attained it. It's confirmed to have come from her Rinne-Sharingan, the "primordial dojutsu" or whatever. The thing is that the Rinne-Sharingan has never showcased the Rinnegan's abilities, and even worse, it's never been stated to have them either. It's only been stated to have the Sharingan's abilities. Saying any more than that would just be an assumption on our part.
One could argue for a Possibly due to the statement of her having the three primordial Dojutsu, and the IT being a Rinnegan based genjutsu, but nothing more than that.
Click to expand...
I cba to talk about Otsutsuki and Six Paths stuff anymore ngl, but I will say that that was a massive goof on my part forgetting about the ETSO
 
MinatoSparkle said:
I cba to talk about Otsutsuki and Six Paths stuff anymore ngl, but I will say that that was a massive goof on my part forgetting about the ETSO
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Wait so you were serious?! Lmao, I thought for sure you were joking. I didn't wanna seem like a condescending prick by sending the ETSO scan and going like "urmmm, well achshually 🤓". But it's all good, I forget a lot of stuff too lol.
 
AnimesFreak2 said:
Where is this from?

To_break_a_genjutsu_you_need_to_disrupt_the_chakra_in_the_brain_with_a_power_surpassing_that_of_the_opponent_Quiz_Book.png


Because I already know people with no literacy skills whatsoever ( IE average Naruto fan/power scaler ) is gonna say it

No this doesn't contradict genjutsu manipulating one's energy flow ( in this case chakra ) via first manipulating the 5 senses lmao

It just once again confirms the results of what happens when you control their 5 senses ( controlling the chakra in their brains )
Click to expand...
Doesn't the text contradict what you just said?
 
KingogKings777 said:
Doesn't the text contradict what you just said?
Click to expand...
Not really no?

The stuff I use ( the manga and such ) say that chakra manipulates one's chakra flow to manipulate their 5 senses right?

The scan doesn't contradict it as it's really just talking about the result of what happens after the genjutsu successfully manipulates your senses ( IE Manipulating the chakra in one's body/brain or whatever )

Nowhere does it say or imply the target has to have chakra

Plus as I said, there are multiple other statements and just feats outright contradicting the need of the target needing chakra let alone actively flowing through their brain
 
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