Naruto Shippuden: Removal of 7-A+ for Top and High Tiers

[M3X_2.0]

What the title says. First of all, we don't have any 7-A+ anymore. What we have now are 2 High 7-A calculations and one 7-A calc. The calcs are:

Naruto - The Return of the Fodder

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Six-Tails Naruto Biju Bomb

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Naruto - Silence, not liar

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Water Prison Shark Dance Technique

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First, the Rasenshuriken. Edo Madara took a giant one and survived. Here is after he took it. Arguments that "Madara regenerated after it" don't work here, the time spam between the two pages is too small, Edo Tensei take some time to regen, and most important, Naruto's Rasenshuriken is effective against Edo Tensei regen, slowing it down. So he 100% took it with no damage. The giant RS is calced at 2.3 Gigatons.

High 7-A Madara, Hashirama (since he can harm Madara), maybe BM Naruto and Obito. SM Hashirama would be Island level, same for BSM Naruto and Madara with Hashirama's Senjutsu. Physically, of course.

Now the 6 Tails Naruto calc. His Biju Dama is High 7-A, physically he should be that Tier too, since he is too close of the BB (if one disagree with it I can calc the yield he took, it'd still be High 7-A tho). Some people might argue that Pain should scale, but rereading the fight, they didn't trade any blows... 6 Tails only reflected his Shinra Tensei... but don't worry. Pain could dissipate SM Naruto's RS with his Shinra Tensei, since he took it directly, he should scale physically too. This would make Pain scale to the RS, SM Naruto too. But aside from the scaling I did previously, Databook stated that Naruto take the damage of the RS, but he overcame this with a though body with Sage Mode, meaning durability. Pain should scale to high 7-A regardless of the scaling, with 6 tails or RS. If one can prove that he should scale to 6 Tails, good.

Kisame's 7-A calc is the one that I think it's difficult to scale. But any character that can match Kisame's water style should scale to this.

More one thing, Bee, Itachi and KCM Naruto should scale to 1/3 of Nagato's CT, since they destroyed it.

Updated Chibaku Tensei Size and Nagato Speed

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They'd be 5 Gigatons each, Island level. KCM with Rasenshuriken, Itachi's Susano'o with Magatamas and Bee with Biju Dama.

 

[Rocker1189]

I agree with this, been a long time coming.

 

[LordTracer]

I agree with everything here, and I was actually planning on doing my own revision with most of the same stuff. But one thing I have to point out:

KCM Naruto is stated to be stronger than Sage Mode Naruto (during the Pain Arc), which could give more backup to him being 6-C. Also if KCM is 6-C, KCM2 would be as well, and Madara scales above KCM2.

I’ll give my thoughts on the Kisame thing later.

 

[M3X_2.0]

Can you post this statement?

 

[LordTracer]

Can you post this statement?

Sure, just gimme a sec to find it.

 

[M3X_2.0]

And I proposed High 7-A BM Naruto, Madara and such because I don't think people will accept the CT scaling.

 

[LordTracer]

And I proposed High 7-A BM Naruto, Madara and such because I don't think people will accept the CT scaling.

Understandable, but High 7-A SM could give it some more support. KCM2 also slapping away several Bijuudama could support 6-C as well.

Here’s the KCM > Sage Mode statement.

 

[M3X_2.0]

Ah yeah, that. Seems fine. Need more opinions about it tho

 

[Slacjow]

First, the Rasenshuriken. Edo Madara took a giant one and survived. Here is after he took it. Arguments that "Madara regenerated after it" don't work here,

Hashi himself stated that Naruto's attack couldn't put Madara down.

 

[M3X_2.0]

More support then.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Since Kisame would scale to 7-A (232 Megatons), would that mean we scale his 30% Clone to 7-B+ (77.3 Megatons), because that opens a lot of doors

 

[M3X_2.0]

His clone stomped Base Guy

 

[M3X_2.0]

And btw, thats the calc I was talking about, the giant RS. Since the Shinju size is wrong, it makes the calc wrong too. Alex recalced the Shinju size, but didn't do the same with the giant RS. I think I'll calc it.

Naruto - True Confusion At Its Fullest

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[UchihaSlayer96]

Btw guys, I'll just throw something out there in regards to KCM2 Naruto's feat of swatting away the TBBs before they exploded. TBBs are confirmed to be stronger than a Bijū's physical attacks even without exoloding. This is from the canon Sakura Hiden novel, and is talking about an inferior Bijū cloak based on Naruto's own, but it functions the same way, so it should be applicable to the rest of the Bijū as well.

Do with this information what you will.

 

[LordTracer]

Since Kisame would scale to 7-A (232 Megatons), would that mean we scale his 30% Clone to 7-B+ (77.3 Megatons), because that opens a lot of doors

Yeah, because Itachi scales above Kisame, Part II Kakashi scales to 30% Itachi, and quite a few people scale to Kakashi. Base Jiraiya also scales above Kisame.

Neji could also destroy water clones (which are stated to be 1/10 as strong as the original) from 30% Kisame, and BoS Naruto scales above him according to Danzō.

 

[LordTracer]

And I meant to put this in my first post, but I forgot. Tobirama should scale to High 7-A/6-C, pretty much whatever Madara is.

Madara implied that the reason he had the edge was because Hashirama and Tobirama were weakened by Edo Tensei, and the fact that he included Tobirama in that statement would imply that Tobirama could be a threat to him. Madara also hit Tobirama on the arm and it didn’t do any damage to him, and Madara felt the need to use his Susano’o to block an attack from Tobirama.

And before anyone mentions Kinkaku and Ginkaku, A thought that he would have to come down to the battlefield to take them on, and A could fight Madara alongside the Five Kage, so not an anti-feat.

 

[M3X_2.0]

We need to discuss the 30% clones part. Kisame stomped Guy, Itachi dominated Kakashi. I'm fine with the 1/10 of power for clones. I heavily disagree with the Tobirama part, I mean I can see him scaling, but not with that part of "Madara hit his arm and did nothing" while Madara is disarming him.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Btw guys, I'll just throw something out there in regards to KCM2 Naruto's feat of swatting away the TBBs before they exploded. TBBs are confirmed to be stronger than a Bijū's physical attacks even without exoloding. This is from the canon Sakura Hiden novel, and is talking about an inferior Bijū cloak based on Naruto's own, but it functions the same way, so it should be applicable to the rest of the Bijū as well.

Do with this information what you will.

Nice, we should use that

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

We need to discuss the 30% clones part. Kisame stomped Guy, Itachi dominated Kakashi. I'm fine with the 1/10 of power for clones. I heavily disagree with the Tobirama part, I mean I can see him scaling, but not with that part of "Madara hit his arm and did nothing" while Madara is disarming him.

Why 1/10? If they're a 30% Clone, that means they would be a little less than 1/3 of her power

 

[M3X_2.0]

Kisame himself is a 30% clone, 1/10 is for water clones in general, stated.

 

[Slacjow]

I heavily disagree with the Tobirama part, I mean I can see him scaling, but not with that part of "Madara hit his arm and did nothing" while Madara is disarming him.

Totally, Madara just parried the attack, and the ones he used Susanoo against were needles, piercing attacks are usually better.

 

[KingTempest]

1/10 is for water clones in general, stated.

That was for 10 clones, count the swords in the background.

It would be the regular 1/3rd

 

[M3X_2.0]

GaeTempest

 

[KingTempest]

GaeTempest

 

[LordTracer]

That was for 10 clones, count the swords in the background.

It would be the regular 1/3rd

That link isn’t working for me.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

None of these links are working for me...

But anyways, Kyubi Influence Naruto would scale to 30% Itachi for One Shotting him

 

[KingTempest]

Chapter 22 page 16

 

[LordTracer]

We need to discuss the 30% clones part. Kisame stomped Guy, Itachi dominated Kakashi. I'm fine with the 1/10 of power for clones. I heavily disagree with the Tobirama part, I mean I can see him scaling, but not with that part of "Madara hit his arm and did nothing" while Madara is disarming him.

Maybe Tobirama could have like a ‘possibly’ rating because of Madara’s statement? Like, he’d be ‘At least X, possibly High 7-A/6-C’

And speaking of possibly ratings, maybe KCM could have that too, just in case people aren’t completely fine with him scaling to 1/3 of the Chibaku Tensei.

 

[M3X_2.0]

Maybe Tobirama could have like a ‘possibly’ rating because of Madara’s statement? Like, he’d be ‘At least X, possibly High 7-A/6-C’

Yes, obviously. Can't see Tobirama below that rating while he fought Madara and Uchihas his whole life...

 

[LordTracer]

That was for 10 clones, count the swords in the background.

It would be the regular 1/3rd

It we’re assuming the power of water clones are divided by how many of them there are, 30% Kisame’s clones would still be 7-B, but they’d be 23.2 megatons.

 

[M3X_2.0]

I can take City level Neji

 

[KingTempest]

It we’re assuming the power of water clones are divided by how many of them there are, 30% Kisame’s clones would still be 7-B, but they’d be 23.2 megatons.

The formula is 1/(Original + clone amount), so it would be 7.5%

 

[M3X_2.0]

BoS Naruto scales above him according to Danzō.

mind posting this?

 

[LordTracer]

mind posting this?

Yep. Danzō says Naruto (and Sai) scale above their peers, i.e, the Konoha 11. (Sakura would be an exception to this, since she has reason to scale higher than base Naruto).

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Yep. Danzō says Naruto (and Sai) scale above their peers, i.e, the Konoha 11. (Sakura would be an exception to this, since she has reason to scale higher than base Naruto).

Not to be that guy, but that could mean Naruto with Kyuubi Amps

 

[LordTracer]

Goddamnit why would you say that

I mean... it could be, but wouldn’t Danzō have specified if he meant Naruto using the Kyuubi chakra?

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

I mean if Sai is above the others, then Base Naruto probably scales to Sai

 

[LordTracer]

Y’know, how about we leave Kisame to a different thread? Because that’ll end up affecting a majority of Part II scaling. Let’s just focus on the High 7-A/6-C stuff.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Y’know, how about we leave Kisame to a different thread? Because that’ll end up affecting a majority of Part II scaling. Let’s just focus on the High 7-A/6-C stuff.

Yeah, that's a good idea. Although people like Jiraiya potentially scaling to Kisame can lead to further justifications for High 7-A via the SM multiplier.

 

[Damage3245]

More one thing, Bee, Itachi and KCM Naruto should scale to 1/3 of Nagato's CT, since they destroyed it.

I don't see how that follows. That calc is not for the AP required to destroy the CT.