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That’s true, but I think it’d be best to just leave it for later.
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Naruto Shippuden: Removal of 7-A+ for Top and High Tiers
- Thread starter M3X_2.0
- Start date
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- Thread starter
- #42
It doesn't matter. The black sphere is the CT, the black sphere has 15 GT of potency. 3 people destroying it = each one of them scale to 1/3
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That’s not how it works... The Chibaku Tensei Orb wouldn’t have the same durability as it’s gravity
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I don't know how you get 15 GB durability from that.
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Anyways I’m fine with Rasenshuriken being Sage Mode Naruto’s AP
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With the 10x multiplier being accepted for Sage Mode, a lot of characters who are 7-A+ to even High 7-A get amped to 6-C with Sage mode alone, so this feels like supporting evidence.
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It's pretty simple the mini black whole has the energy to hold all that mass, to destroy it you would have to overcome that energy. Thus you would need comparable AP at least to overcome its energy/AP. If not the energy should be absorbed just the same. We see this when the 6 tails initially attempts to destroy Pain's first CT. If you are wandering why Nagato's CT is the same as Pain's it is simply because Nagato is stronger so the CT should be at least the same power is not far more powerful. We never got to see it get to it's true state due to ending if prematurely but that doesn't really matter since we know it's weaker version.
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I don't think that's true... The Chibaku Tensei hasn't been implied to hold all of that mass inside of it, but even if it was true, it was hit by a 30 Gigaton Biju Bomb from the Eight-Tails. That alone would overpower the Chibaku Tensei at least twice, so there'd be no reason for Naruto and Itachi to scale to 1/3rd of it.
The 6-Tailed Naruto never managed to attack the core. His attacks hit the shell of rock around it.
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It doesn't matter if it holds it inside, the point this it has the energy to hold all that mass in the air regardless. What you say about gyuki only reinforces that Nagato's is more powerful. Also if only gyuki was required then there is no need for Naruto and Itachi in the first place, but it as clear that they were comparable with their respective powers.
That doesn't matter we know the power of 6-tailed Naruto's tbb yet it barely made a dent, which makes sense as all the power was seemingly taken out of it.
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It having the energy is one thing, but I don't see why that translates to durability.
And regarding why all three of them attacked, there is no way they could know how much would be required to destroy it, so they all attacked at once with their most powerful ranged moves. It doesn't mean all three of them are equals.
This is too speculative for me to agree with. I don't think there's anything implying that the power of the jutsu was absorbed by the CT.
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I already explained it's not about durability is about overcoming it's AP. It's durability is it's AP essentially by virtue of being a mass of energy. To overcome a suction force you have to overpower said suction. Which in this case is 15 GT.
Literally Itachi has the sharingan which allows him to determine the chakra amount and strength of things he is the one that directed that attack and when people combine to do certain moves together we tend to give them equal credit so as to not guess work how much each person put into it.
Apart from you know that the entire point of the CT is to absorb everything around it...like that is literally why Itachi, gyuki and Naruto attacked they knew it would pull all their atacks to the centre without having to aim. Their power was just too much for it to hold while doing so.
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KCM Naruto, Itachi and B did the same thing though. When they use their attacks, there was already a shell around the core of the Chibaku Tensei.
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That just means they broke the shell and destroyed the core in the same attack, doesn't it?
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Also I don’t think it’s necessarily saying they’re equals, it’s just dividing the yield between them (which is what’s done in calcs where more than one person contributes to a feat).
Yes, they destroyed the entire thing.
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That would be useful in cases where we don't know how powerful the attacks are individually... but we know how strong the Eight-Tails Biju Bomb is. For some reason we'd be downgrading it so that Itachi and Naruto can be upgraded to match it.
The Chibaku Tensei by that point is tiny. Since the CT starts gradually (sucking up pebbles and small rocks before moving onto huger boulders), I don't see why we'd assume the core itself as a durable as the full, completed CT.
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I have explained this multiple times.
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I’m not sure if that’s how it works. To use an example from another verse, this character has a High 6-A calc, yet in another calc where they’re clashing with another character, the results are divided evenly by 2 and gets results much lower than High 6-A. That doesn’t mean the first character would be getting downgraded. Pretty much the same situation here.
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Yeah, all it means is that Gyūki was "At least 5 GT" in this particular encounter/feat, but that doesn't mean he'll get downgraded. I've seen many verses treat similar situations like this, as Tracer pointed out, so I assumed this is how it should be treated.
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Maybe, but this is going into some weird scaling IMO where attacks that are used together are assumed equal to each other. Let's take this page for example. I wouldn't assume that every Kyubi-enhanced Shinobi like Temari is equal to a Biju Bomb just because they launched attacks at the same time which contributed to a single result.
But because Itachi, KCM Naruto and Killer B launched their strongest ranged attacks at the same time, we assume they're equally as powerful? It's just a bit weird IMO.
But because Itachi, KCM Naruto and Killer B launched their strongest ranged attacks at the same time, we assume they're equally as powerful? It's just a bit weird IMO.
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It's honestly not that weird IMHO. Naruto would only scale with his KCM Rasenshuriken, which has no anti-feats, and Itachi only scales with his Susano'o, which also has no anti-feats as an Edo Tensei.
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Well, we have no way of quantifying just how strong all of those shinobi are, so you can’t really say they aren’t equal. Especially when we’ve seen how unreasonable the Kyuubi amps can be (base Rock Lee kicking Madara in half, Hinata knocking away a hand from the Juubi, etc.).
It is somewhat weird, I will agree there, but there isn’t really a reason for them not to scale. I suggested this earlier, but maybe ‘At least High 7-A, possibly 6-C’ can work for the KCM-tiers?
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That page you are taking out of context, every person combined to do an attack and you can tell with how it is split in panels that each attack that was done by multiple people counts as one attack in it self, so no not every person would be comparable to a bijuudama but you can assume that each set of kyuubi-enhanced attacks could be comparable to a bijuudama.
Also another thing is th econtext of each person attacking, Itachi's Susanoo and Naruto in KCM can be seen as somewhat comparable to Gyuki even if weaker.
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- Thread starter
- #66
About Gyuki, we pretty much know he can use the amount of chakra he want to, and he is not limited to 30 GT. He used "all of his chakra" alongside Kurama to attack 10 tails, so he can use some of his chakra to attack at 30GT and all of his chakra, to attack at 1.2 Teratons, and now he attacked at 5.
Complaning about dividing the energy by 3 is hypocrisy at an absurd level. We've always done that. Whenever a feat was done by more than one person, we divide the result by the number of people. You have done this, Damage, several times. Why now, in this exact case, can we not do this? What prevents us from doing this?
Complaning about dividing the energy by 3 is hypocrisy at an absurd level. We've always done that. Whenever a feat was done by more than one person, we divide the result by the number of people. You have done this, Damage, several times. Why now, in this exact case, can we not do this? What prevents us from doing this?
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It'd be a bit different if it was a direct calced result of their three attacks together (and even then I would only advocate using it if we didn't have any alternatives).
But I don't agree with the AP of their attacks scaling to the AP of Nagato's Chibaku Tensei. There isn't proof of the core actually having Island level mass / durability in my view, unless some other calc experts can comment on this.
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Mitch didn't bring any arguments. Disagree for the sake of disagree means nothing.
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Can someone fully explain the reasoning for why the attacks would scale to the Chibaku Tensei
Explain it to me step by step, because I'm a bit confused as to how destroying the orb means you match the force of the thing
Explain it to me step by step, because I'm a bit confused as to how destroying the orb means you match the force of the thing
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in the middle of somth I would respond in a bit.
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Alright so:
1. The CT is a suction force focused on the black hole that is capable of lifting and holding up its calced level of AP and mass in the air possibly indefinitely.
2. To be capable of destroying this object you would need to be capable of outputting this same amount of energy or else it would just be absorbed as it does not overcome said suction force this is confirmed with Itachi specifically stating that they should use their strongest long ranged attacks on the core.
3. So with that in mind we know its strength is 15 gt so they should over 15 gt of AP.
Essentially its is not that the core has a specific durability but how the core works means that its durability is based on its AP literally like a miniature black hole.
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Mmmmmm
I can agree to that, if it's true that the Chibaku Tensei Orb would have been able to absorb weaker attacks into itself and therefore destroying it means you overcome the force of the pull
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So what are some proposals here for both sides?
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I am fine with a "likely" because I do understand concerns but I think my explanation warrants the reasoning for the CT to be scaled in this way. I of course agree with the High 7-A stuff and I think we should move on to scaling that after the CT discussion is done including with the people who downscale off of multipliers and whatever else.
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I am still 100% fine with the High 7-A upgrades
30% Clone scaling should be for another thread tho
30% Clone scaling should be for another thread tho
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