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Naruto Part II Revisions (Multipliers/Calculations)

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Damage3245 said:
The scaling for Deidara's explosives that knocked out Gaara to be 7-A doesn't make sense to me. If you calc any of his exposives, even his massive C3 explosive or his dragon explosive, the result you'd get would be consistently way lower. I doubt even his C3 would get City level results.

But these tiny insect-shaped explosives are 7-A?
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This doesnt make much sense.
This seems to be an appeal to AOE though.
 
Shadowbokunohero said:
This doesnt make much sense.
This seems to be an appeal to AOE though.
Click to expand...

AOE isn't always a fallacy. It is pretty evident that the more chakra explosive Deidara uses, the bigger his explosives will be. You can pretty apparently see the difference between his tiny insect explosives, and his absolutely massive explosives - the main difference between them being the amount of chakra explosive clay he uses.

But that's not the my main point against the scaling anyway.
 
Damage3245 said:
AOE isn't always a fallacy. It is pretty evident that the more chakra explosive Deidara uses, the bigger his explosives will be. You can pretty apparently see the difference between his tiny insect explosives, and his absolutely massive explosives - the main difference between them being the amount of chakra explosive clay he uses.
Click to expand...
Then that would just make the larger explosions unquantifiably stronger than the tiny ones. that's all that happens.
 
Shadowbokunohero said:
Then that would just make the larger explosions unquantifiably stronger than the tiny ones. that's all that happens.
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Right, but my point from the beginning has been that the tiny ones don't scale to 7-B+. Let's not forget that the explosives burrowed past Gaara's defensive shield wall and got in his face before they exploded (and Gaara still had enough consciousness/energy to safely guide his sand out of the village instead of letting it drop).

And when Deidara tried using an explosive bird against Gaara's shell, he didn't break through it.
 
Damage3245 said:
Right, but my point from the beginning has been that the tiny ones don't scale to 7-B+. Let's not forget that the explosives burrowed past Gaara's defensive shield wall and got in his face before they exploded (and Gaara still had enough consciousness/energy to safely guide his sand out of the village instead of letting it drop).

And when Deidara tried using an explosive bird against Gaara's shell, he didn't break through it.
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> explosives burrowed past Gaara's defensive shield wall and got in his face before they exploded

those explosions still damaged Gaara's armoured Sand which isnt significantly weaker than his Auto sand as it's all part of his Ultimate defence persona. this is proven true by the fact that during his fight with Lee despite former being able to blow away his auto sand he still had trouble blowing away Gaara's armoured sand.

> Deidara tried using an explosive bird against Gaara's shell, he didn't break through it.

yes but it damaged it pretty roughly leaving scortch marks and what not.

> and Gaara still had enough consciousness/energy to safely guide his sand out of the village instead of letting it drop.

This isnt really a feat for gaara as Deidara later clarifies it was extremeley hard not to kill Gaara, meaning Deidara had to regulate the energy he used, enough to Incapacitate Gaara but not outright kill him.

But lets Agree and Say C1 doesnt scale, then I dont see the issue of scaling him to the Attacks that do, be it C2,C3 or whatever.
 
@Shadowbokunohero; the thing is, I don't think we've seen any of Deidara's techniques that do scale to Gaara's feat.

His C3 explosive was blocked by a large amount of "ordinary sand" moved into place, and if we wanted to figure out how strong it is we could just calc it.

We calc his C0 explosive instead of saying "It's at least as strong as Deidara is". So why shouldn't we calc Deidara's other explosive feats?
 
Metalija said:
This just proves that Gaara even while half dead still has enough strength to move all of that sand which requires 7-B+ amounts of energy. So full power Gaara is even stronger than 7-B+.
Click to expand...

Moving the sand itself does not require 7-B+ amounts of energy. It is moving a mass of sand that large in a specific timeframe that gives 7-B+ results.

Comparatively Gaara's personal sand shield has way, way less mass. Even if it is "Special Sand", there is no reason to assume it has 7-B+ durability.
 
UchihaSlayer96 said:
I don't think Jiraiya's feat directly scales to anyone else, except some of the Pains.
I guess you could argue it scales to Kakashi, because he managed to harm the Asura path (who ripped off Jiraiya's arm).
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That’s what I was thinking, Kakashi could damage the Asura Path so he would end up scaling, and then so would base Naruto and Sakura.
 
I'm pretty sure the Asura Path wouldn't scale to the Big Ball Rasengan. The only Path that took that on was the Preta Path who absorbed it. The Asura Path harmed Jiraiya off-screen, but I don't think that wouldn't scale to the Rasengan.
 
Asura path is at least relative to SM Jiraiyas physicals. But how do we determine Jiraiyas physicals? Maybe we take Pains casual 2 megaton feat and multiply it by 10 or something?
 
Shouldn’t all the Six Paths scale to the Rain Tiger at Will calc since it’s pretty much a passive jutsu?
 
Maybe we can have base Jiraiya at 2 megatons, and then have SM Jiraiya 10 times that at 20 megatons? I know that Massive rasengan was calced at 18 megatons but thats by using a smallest mountain possible for a calc (609 meters), so i don't think that there is a problem for SM Jiraiya being 7-B. Then we can scale Kakashi and Base Naruto at least on the level of Base Jiraiya or higher, and have CM2 Sasuke, Deidara and others at SM Jiraiyas level. Then we have full power Tendo and SM Naruto at High 7-A due to scaling above KN4 who has a 7-A calc.
 
There is no 2 megatons calc. The Rain Tiger At Will calc is 13.5 megatons (7-B), the verse page just has it incorrectly.
 
The verse page appears to have that one wrong too. The calc itself lists 38.9 megatons as the result.
 
Pretty sure the Rain jutsu still won't help us figure out what Jiraiya's physicals should be.

What are base Jiraiya's physical feats?
 
If it scales to the other Paths of Pain, Sage Jiraiya would scale to the RTaW calc since he could yeet one of them with a kick. Although then he says that three Paths can kill him so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
LordTracer said:
Yep. 38.862259703632886954 megatons to be exact.
Click to expand...
latest
 
I dunno if this means anything, but the Preta Path actually grabbed Jiraiya’s Rasengan before he absorbed it.
 
Also the Asura Path could rip Jiraiya’s arm off and crush his throat while all six Paths were active, so Pain’s lowest tier would scale to Sage Jiraiya.
 
Works fine. And before people say: "Well Tendo lost to base Naruto!". You need to remember that Nagato was basicaly dying after Chibaku Tensei, he was coughing up blood, so Tendo was not at full power at that point.
 
Nagato focuses power to all of the pains. If he focused a little bit of power to do a weak jutsu that has a certain calc, all the Pains should scale. Pains said Jiraiya could win if they knew his secret, Jiraiya scales. You can work off of his rasengan or the rain jutsu, idm to me.

SM Jiraiya should scale to Orochimaru who scales to 4 Tails Naruto. Divide Jiraiya's potency by 10 to get his base stats. SM Naruto stronger than SM Jiraiya. Divide by 10 to get his base stats. Sakura physically stronger than Naruto.

Deidara took a crap ton of punches from KN0 Naruto. Gaara's personal sand scales above that as he crushed his arm.

Itachi states he would match with Jiraiya (idk if it's base or sage mode). 30% of Itachi matched Kakashi. Kakashi matched Kakuzu who scales below Naruto's rasenshuriken.

Yall can work off of that.
 
We can’t backscale from the Sage Mode multiplier since it’s not a solid number, it’s just “above 10x.”
 
00potato said:
Why not? If the multiplier is a little over 10x. This is slightly lower, than wouldn’t it just be about 10x?
Click to expand...
That’s the thing, we have no idea how much above ten it is. So backscaling, we have no idea how much beneath ten it would be.

This is what I was told.
 
Yeah but we do have a reasonable estimate (about 10x.) it isn’t an exact science but nothing here really is.
This is what you are told now.
LordTracer said:
That’s the thing, we have no idea how much above ten it is. So backscaling, we have no idea how much beneath ten it would be.

This is what I was told.
Click to expand...
 
I dunno, ask a staff or something. If they’re fine with backscaling from it, then that just makes the scaling easier.
 
Why? I doubt that aren’t any more informed than ya’ll and the subject (probably more than me since K haven’t actually saw Naruto but my point still stands.) If they want to dispute the estimate, sure I am fine with that but think for yourself, don’t build everything around the admins.
 
00potato said:
Why? I doubt that aren’t any more informed than ya’ll and the subject (probably more than me since K haven’t actually saw Naruto but my point still stands.) If they want to dispute the estimate, sure I am fine with that but think for yourself, don’t build everything around the admins.
Click to expand...
I think I’ve made it very clear that I don’t build everything around staff, it’s just a matter of if multipliers can be treated like that on the wiki.
 
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